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Has The Archives lost it's way?

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Atavachron View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 14:13
Originally posted by mellotronwave mellotronwave wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I thought that was The Handles?
Didn't they eventually change their name to the Knobs?
Good one


I'm pretty sure that was Led Zeppelin circa 1968.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zeph Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 14:39
You could focus on a handful of bands that has a very limited selection that might could fit into some of the genres on PA, or on the hundreds, thousands of bands that fit, no questions asked.

This is not a glass half empty or half full situation, but one where the glass is filled to above the top of the glass, and a couple more drops would cause it to spill over.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Angelo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 15:06
Originally posted by deafmoon deafmoon wrote:

After being away for awhile, I return to see The Doors are included on this site. I fail to see (exception of Ray Mazareks The Golden Scarab) the Doors as being Progressive. I lived their heyday and they were then and still are a Pop band. 

How long have you been away, 16, 17 years? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Disconnect Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 15:48
There is a direct and multi-threaded link from psychedelic music to progressive rock.   We all know that, right?

Edited by Disconnect - September 10 2023 at 15:48
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Anders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 15:49
Personally, I identify more as an art rock fan than a prog fan as such - hence why Lamb is my favourite Genesis album, and not f.e. Foxtrot. As it happens, there is no such thing as Art Rock Archives, so I am quite pleased that there is room for that here as well. Thus, I am often more interested in some of the bands and musicians in the periphery of prog rather than the more archetypal prog bands (with the exception of Pink Floyd), and I would be very sad to see them go.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mathman0806 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:10
No. I don't think it's lost its way. I have been around for about 10 years, so I can't comment before that. Traffic isn't as much as I recall seeing when I first joined. I thought Prog Archives had generally a broader range than what I considered as prog but I have no complaints about that. I have discovered much new music to enjoy that I otherwise wouldn't have on my own.

The original poster's hyperbole of combining with Jazz Archives doesn't make sense as combining the two wouldn't come close to covering all music.

Of course, PA will contnue to grow as long as there are bands producing new adventurous music. There will never be universal agreement about what should or shouldn't be here.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:12
Originally posted by mathman0806 mathman0806 wrote:

No. I don't think it's lost its way. I have been around for about 10 years, so I can't comment before that. Traffic isn't as much as I recall seeing when I first joined. I thought Prog Archives had generally a broader range than what I considered as prog but I have no complaints about that. I have discovered much new music to enjoy that I otherwise wouldn't have on my own.

The original poster's hyperbole of combining with Jazz Archives doesn't make sense as combining the two wouldn't come close to covering all music.

Of course, PA will contnue to grow as long as there are bands producing new adventurous music. There will never be universal agreement about what should or shouldn't be here.

Great post! Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:18
It's actually still a fairly conservative little institution.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 16:33
But it's not proggy prog!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Stressed Cheese Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 17:39
1) People are smart enough to see the category "proto-prog" assigned to them, and 2) most people are smart enough to understand that, while they're not prog, per se, they're important for the genre's inception.

You could argue that proto-prog and prog-related artists don't have a place here at all, and that there's too many metal genres that have little to do with classic prog rock, but then I wouldn't say PA 'lost its way', because that has always been the case AFAIK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Awesoreno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2023 at 22:58
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I thought that was The Handles?

Didn't they eventually change their name to the Knobs?
They did, but quickly became The Hinges after realizing the name wouldn't get passed the censors in the UK.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cstack3 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 00:58
Ish, all these labels!  I'm able to discern progressive tendencies in all sorts of popular music, including new wave (Fripp's League of Gentlemen was amazing live!), punk (I played bass in a Chicago punk band, The Marquis, who had an amazing, jazz-rock influenced guitarist), disco etc.  

All of this proto, pre-, post, math etc. is a bunch of baloney in my book!!  ALL music is based upon mathematics, ALL music led to what we now call "progressive" (Quintette du Hot Club de France!), etc.  

Mind you, there is some fairly "regressive" music out there such as hip-hop, rap or whatever it's called.  I see little value in all of that.  

What am I missing?  I know that the late, great Peter Banks also disliked the term "prog" and said "They should call it George or something."  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MikeEnRegalia Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 01:46
^ Yes, labels and tags are fuzzy criteria of limited value. Which is why created a website where we have lots of labels and tags, but they are never an exclusion criterion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 04:59
Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews/ratings dropped drastically. 

Edited by omphaloskepsis - September 11 2023 at 05:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:00
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews dropped drastically. 

Drastically?! How drastically? I think you are exaggerating a little bit. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:07
Wasn't I in a band called the Head Jambs? Or was it the Escutcheons?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:11
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews/ratings dropped drastically. 

Drastically?! How drastically? I think you are exaggerating a little bit. Smile



Of course, older albums have more reviews/ratings than recent albums. Yet, I think the downward review/rating trend is obvious. 

 Compare the 2022 top 10 albums with the 2018 top ten.    677 ratings for 2022 top ten. 2093 ratings for 2018 top 10 albums.

The 2015 top 10 albums have a total of 7325 ratings.  Unless I'm mistaken, new albums tend to collect more reviews/ratings per year than older albums.   In the current year 2023 albums collect more reviews/ratings than 2018 albums.  

The lion's share of  2018 reviews/ratings are from the 2018-2019 years.  For example, the #1 album from 2018 (All Traps On Earth) collected 27 reviews in 2018-2019 and 7 reviews in all the years since then.



Edited by omphaloskepsis - September 11 2023 at 05:32
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 05:33
Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by omphaloskepsis omphaloskepsis wrote:

Compared to five years ago, the number of reviews/ratings dropped drastically. 

Drastically?! How drastically? I think you are exaggerating a little bit. Smile



Of course, older albums have more reviews/ratings than recent albums. Yet, I think the downward review/rating trend is obvious. 

 Compare the 2022 top 10 albums with the 2018 top ten.    677 ratings for 2022 top ten. 2093 ratings for 2018 top 10 albums.

The 2015 top 10 albums have a total of 7325 ratings.  Unless I'm mistaken, new albums tend to collect more reviews/ratings per year than older albums.   In the current year 2023 albums collect more reviews/ratings than 2018 albums.  

The lion's share of  2018 reviews/ratings are from the 2018-2019 years.  For example, the #1 album from 2018 (All Traps On Earth) collected 27 reviews in 2018-2019 and 7 reviews in all the years since then.


ok, thanks for explaining. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 06:19
Ah, to be prog or not to be prog? That is the question. I'm not sure myself why some artists are included here, especially some listed under "prog related", but "crossover prog" seems more straight forward. But what of the bands like Genesis and Yes that rebranded themselves as pop rockers in the 80's? Should their more "commercial" albums be ejected from the archives, leaving only their early prog classics to be included? 

What we have is what we have. It's up to us to make the best of it. And incase no one was looking, the Main page is usually filled with reviews of the most outra prog albums imaginable, from a myriad of different sub genres both old and new. Reviews are the main reason this site exists. The rest is all academic to that purpose.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hrychu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 11 2023 at 07:09
If you're gonna remove The Doors because they're not really prog, then you should also get rid of, like, Klaus Schultze or uh, Tangerine Dream...? Soniq Theater? xD The point is that labeling can get real subjective and there always will be some purist who might say "this shouldn't be on PA, because it's too pop, not rock enough, too derivative" and so on and so on et al. The fact the subgenres are there is super convenient IMHO, because it gives you clue on what to expect from a band, if you for example want to explore new music.

But anyway, an actual good way to improve the site would be to make star ratings in reviews optional. B)
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