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Dean 
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 Posted: April 26 2013 at 07:58 |
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I don't think anyone in Genesis qualifies as being a deep and meaningful lyricist - like bad schoolboy poetry, in most prog lyrics what you see is what you get. There may have been a metaphorical intention in the idea of the songs, but you don't need to look too deep into the lyrics themselves.
Edited by Dean - April 26 2013 at 08:44
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What?
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timbo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 04 2013
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 09:46 |
 Gerinski wrote:
If for one thing I would have liked to be an English language native it's for being able to better interpret lyrics. My English is decent enough to understand but I often fail in being able to interpret all the nuances. Plus when it's not your native language you can't help putting the focus more on the music than on the lyrics. |
For much of Genesis lyrics, especially SEBTP, you need to have lived in England in the early seventies to understand all the references - it's not just a language thing, it's a cultural thing. For example: Aisle of Plenty - unless you know that Fine Fare, Safeway, Tesco, Co-operative were all English supermarket chains at the time, it won't make much sense. "Knights of the Green Shield Stamp and shout" - Green shield stamps were a kind of loyalty points given out in the sixties/seventies Much of Genesis is full of these kinds of English cultural references, that probably even American audiences didn't pick up on. It's all very British.
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Tubes
Forum Groupie
Joined: March 28 2013
Location: Iowa
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Points: 89
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 09:50 |
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And you would totally know all about the merits of poetry, wouldn't you, Dean?
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The Doctor
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 09:54 |
I never saw this as a concept album. The only thing that seems in anyway conceptual about it is the fact that Los Endos repeats a lot of themes from earlier in the album. But there is definitely no linking thread between the lyrics of the album. Not sure how anyone could see it as a concept album. And...Selling England a concept album? That's news to me. 
Edited by The Doctor - April 26 2013 at 09:56
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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progbethyname
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Joined: July 30 2012
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:15 |
Tubes wrote:
You guys aren't much open to any kind of different thought, are ya'? |
I am. I look at the album cover and that can tell you a lot. Their are characters that represent each song and the nature of their subject matter. I do, however, like your interpretation that the album as whole represents humanity. I would agree with that. The songs are not directly connected to each other, but on a humanistic theme level they are. It's a tough call and their is a clear theme, but the songs don't necessarily match up to tell a grand unified story.
I would have to say 'no' mr. Tubes. Great forum though. Makes me think. :)
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chopper
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Joined: July 13 2005
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:16 |
timbo wrote:
Gerinski wrote:
If for one thing I would have liked to be an English language native it's for being able to better interpret lyrics. My English is decent enough to understand but I often fail in being able to interpret all the nuances. Plus when it's not your native language you can't help putting the focus more on the music than on the lyrics. |
For much of Genesis lyrics, especially SEBTP, you need to have lived in England in the early seventies to understand all the references - it's not just a language thing, it's a cultural thing.
For example: Aisle of Plenty - unless you know that Fine Fare, Safeway, Tesco, Co-operative were all English supermarket chains at the time, it won't make much sense.
"Knights of the Green Shield Stamp and shout" - Green shield stamps were a kind of loyalty points given out in the sixties/seventies
Much of Genesis is full of these kinds of English cultural references, that probably even American audiences didn't pick up on. It's all very British. |
Well said, much the same applies to Battle of Epping Forest as well. It's a shame that the wonderful pun about Green Shield Stamps is probably lost on a lot of people now, not just Americans.
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progbethyname
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:23 |
Snow Dog wrote:
Since when is Selling England and Duke concept albums anyway? |
Ah DUKE is definately a conceptual piece. It's about Love and Loss. Dealing with emotional break ups etc. very clear story telling.
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progbethyname
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 10:25 |
Aussie-Byrd-Brother wrote:
I never thought `Trick' was an actual concept album, but rather a collection of fairy tales or fantasy stories! The beautiful LP sleeve and even the remastered CD booklet present the words like an old book too  |
Me too. The album cover clearly sets it up that way. :) I get that too and know where you are coming from
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Snow Dog
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:45 |
progbethyname wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Since when is Selling England and Duke concept albums anyway? |
Ah DUKE is definately a conceptual piece. It's about Love and Loss. Dealing with emotional break ups etc. very clear story telling. |
No it isn't definitely a conceptual piece.
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progbethyname
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:48 |
Snow Dog wrote:
progbethyname wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
Since when is Selling England and Duke concept albums anyway? |
Ah DUKE is definately a conceptual piece. It's about Love and Loss. Dealing with emotional break ups etc. very clear story telling. |
No it isn't definitely a conceptual piece. |
Correcting my spelling...I can understand that Mr. Errors and omissions team, but to get to the heart of the matter why do you feel this is so? Interested to hear your opinion.
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:55 |
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Duke is a semi concept album. Trick would be a bit of a stretch.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened... 
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 11:57 |
Tubes wrote:
And you would totally know all about the merits of poetry, wouldn't you, Dean? |
wtf? 
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The Doctor
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:05 |
Slartibartfast wrote:
Duke is a semi concept album. Trick would be a bit of a stretch.
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Yes on Duke. It has a long conceptual piece composed of 6 songs on the album. The first three, Turn It On and the last two. The rest of the songs may actually fit the themes of loneliness and isolation (Heathaze, Alone Tonight, Please Don't Ask) but they're not really part of the conceptual piece. It's just kind of a darker feeling album, but a concept album tells one complete story as a whole and Duke does not. Now Duke could easily be called a themed album, and I suppose you might be able to call Trick one, but neither are concept albums. I would not in anyway consider Selling England even a themed album though, unless I'm missing something completely, and I do know what green shield stamps were, Tesco, Safeway and most of the references in Epping Forest.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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The Doctor
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:08 |
Dude, it's got to be your avatar. Or maybe the label site admin under it. Something inspires some people (most of them noobs) to immediately go on the attack when talking to you.
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I can understand your anger at me, but what did the horse I rode in on ever do to you?
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progbethyname
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Joined: July 30 2012
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Status: Offline
Points: 7888
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:15 |
The Doctor wrote:
Dude, it's got to be your avatar. Or maybe the label site admin under it. Something inspires some people (most of them noobs) to immediately go on the attack when talking to you. |
While I was away I heard about this poll ' free hand is a 1 star album' and apparently there was some nifty drama. I'm checking it out.... 
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progbethyname
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:18 |
The Doctor wrote:
Slartibartfast wrote:
Duke is a semi concept album. Trick would be a bit of a stretch.
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Yes on Duke. It has a long conceptual piece composed of 6 songs on the album. The first three, Turn It On and the last two. The rest of the songs may actually fit the themes of loneliness and isolation (Heathaze, Alone Tonight, Please Don't Ask) but they're not really part of the conceptual piece. It's just kind of a darker feeling album, but a concept album tells one complete story as a whole and Duke does not. Now Duke could easily be called a themed album, and I suppose you might be able to call Trick one, but neither are concept albums. I would not in anyway consider Selling England even a themed album though, unless I'm missing something completely, and I do know what green shield stamps were, Tesco, Safeway and most of the references in Epping Forest. |
Oh dear Doctor. I new you could read between the lines or....behind the lines if you will. Lol. Duke is definitely a conceptual piece. ;)
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Dean
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Joined: May 13 2007
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 12:26 |
The Doctor wrote:
I would not in anyway consider Selling England even a themed album though, unless I'm missing something completely, and I do know what green shield stamps were, Tesco, Safeway and most of the references in Epping Forest. |
I don't see any planned theme or concept in Selling England either.
The puns aren't that hard (and discussed so often that all Genesis fans should know them). AFAIK the lyrics were all written in quick succession after most of the music had been recorded and the background of each of them is well documented in various places (including here if we could be bothered to search for them). For example it's common knowledge that The Battle of Epping Forest is based upon a newpaper report of a London "mob" turf war.
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What?
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Gerinski
Prog Reviewer
Joined: February 10 2010
Location: Barcelona Spain
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Points: 5160
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 13:07 |
The Doctor wrote:
Now Duke could easily be called a themed album, and I suppose you might be able to call Trick one, but neither are concept albums. I would not in anyway consider Selling England even a themed album though, unless I'm missing something completely, and I do know what green shield stamps were, Tesco, Safeway and most of the references in Epping Forest.
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That's it, there's a difference between a themed album and a concept album. Is Pink Floyd Animals a concept album?
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progbethyname
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Joined: July 30 2012
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 13:18 |
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Lol. It gets confusing sometimes when we think 'theme' and 'concept' to be connected together in an album. Make no mistake here, these terms are not the same. The way Conceptual albums differ from a thematic album, in my opinion, is that the songs (tracks) clearly follow one another interms of lyrical content. Conceptual tells a story where theme album doesn't directly. Aghhhh it's confusing but I think there is a difference between the 2.
Trick of the tail would be a theme album for sure.
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Catcher10
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Posted: April 26 2013 at 14:26 |
Interesting reading......from all vantage points. If one's mind is totally open and clear of pre-thought, maybe I can see trying to create a concept album out of Trick, but I agree its a stretch. If anything the OP got everyone thinking...nice
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A Trick of the Tail - A Concept Album?
