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Topic ClosedIs Pink Floyd the most influential prog rock band?

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 11:37
It really depends on how you define progressive rock. To me classic progressive rock is defined by King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Yes, ELP, VdGG and Genesis. Pink Floyd doesn't really fit with all that to me.

Pink Floyd up through Dark Side is one of my all-time favorite bands, after that I like certain songs, but to me they have a lot more in common with other bands who take a blues, pop and gospel(whether they are conscious of it or not, Floyd has a huge American gospel influence in their music) backdrop and then blow it into huge porportions. The difference between Floyd and albums like Disraeli Gears and Electric Ladyland is that Floyd presents their music in an air of mystery more conducive to 'prog-rockers' and they tend to chain their musical ideas together rather than present seperate songs. Also their voices have that light British art-school quality favored by the prog crowd.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 11:42
Originally posted by Harry Hood Harry Hood wrote:

Pink Floyd were just the most accessible and marketable prog band. Hell, they only ever wrote two full prog albums (Wish You Were Here and Animals), the rest were just pop/rock albums with unique production. They were basically the Radiohead of the 70's.
POP/ROCK Album? Shocked are you saying that  Aton Heart Mother, Meddle, Ummagumma,A saucerful of secrets ect.. were pop album?.... Man what are you smoking????? how dare you of comparying the Mighty Floyd with the Poooopy radiohead... Gosh....... Angry .....ShockedShocked
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 11:42
I gota say something about this. Whenever a discussion is about: is Pink Floyd this or that; i gotta say something. Yes its true, Pink Floyd were a progressive rock group, and one of the best, I might add, though they're really not my cup of tea in my day by day life, I simply love albums like Piper's, Animals, WYWH, Dark Side and The Wall. This said, now comes what I REALLY wanted to say.

Well, its a bit difficult to analyse if they were the most influential PROG rock group. In one side, its true, they were the most influential ROCK group, what I mean by this, is that, although they weren't (in my opinion of course) the most experimentalist (they were because they made rock music evolve in the sixties, i wont get into much details, there are people here who know better the work of PF,  than me) being that King Crimson, Gentle Giant, Yes and others made works that tried to push the rock genre to other side; PF however stayed in more prog pop world, and developed essentially with a Dark Side and The Wall a great number of fans, and nowadays they're considered by the comercial rock world magazines as the best rock group ever, which is really wrong I might add, theres no best rock group ever; if you mean theyre imnportant because they marked an age, thats true, but such groups as The Who, Beatles and Rolling Stones are considered the best rock acts ever, and thats not entirely true, apart from the great music they made, which isnt in discussion here; theyre considered the best by people who never heard prog groups, but as all, in the end is just a matter of taste.

Maybe I dwelled a bit here, and lost my point, but yeah, essentially theyre the most influential and known rock group, but i dont consider them the most influential prog-rock group. WHen I hear Dark Side and I hear Close to the Edge, or any album from GG until Free Hand; or any Criimson album from ITCOTCK to RED; or any Zappa album; I doubt theyre the most influential prog-rock group. And I know I'm going to be attacked by saying this. Bear in mind that I like Piink Floyd, and I'm interested in developing my interest in their music.

Let's just argue peacefully about this ok?


Edited by LeInsomniac - July 24 2008 at 11:45

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 11:44
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

Andy ...how about ....Genesis... both Floyd AND Genesis were considered Art Rock bands...  thus by extrapolation... prog bands.  The only people who don't consider Floyd prog.. are those that don't consider Genesis prog because they don't know the jack crap about the  genre...  and of course the 'complexity crew' that think if it ain't complex.. it ain't prog. Which is a load of bullsh*t if I've ever heard it. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 24 2008 at 12:52
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t6vBMmSvgkY
 Rick Wakeman: " In the beginning GOD created Pink Floyd".  yeap he said that..Mr.Rick wakeman.
Pete Townsend: " A Pink Floyd gig is the only reason why I missed a "THE WHO" show period. On January the 20th 1967 I skip an Who's gig" to take "ERIC CLAPTON" to see "SID BARRETT".
look! what is the line up for this Pink Floyd tribute album? man...... all Prog Pioneers....!Smile
 
This for those that say that Pink Floyd isn't the most  influential progressive rock band ever! ClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClapClap
All that clapping for the MIGHTY PINK FLOYD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Clap


Edited by darksideof - July 24 2008 at 13:05
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2008 at 23:50
I would say Floyd is more influential in rock in general, but Crimson is probably more influential, or just as much as Floyd, in prog
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2008 at 00:32

Pink Floyd was never called a prog band until after the heyday was over. All through the 60's and 70's they were referred to by everyone as "Space Rock"or just "Space Music", along with groups like Hawkwind. I guess critics in the 80's who didn't really know better lumped them in with other prog bands, but I've never considered them "prog". My first Pink Floyd album purchase was "Ummagumma" in 1970.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2008 at 02:30
Floyd were an essential part of, if not the first band in the Progressive music scene in the late 1960s (and "everyone" called it the Progressive music scene!), so Floyd can easily be argued to be the first Prog band.
 
It's true they didn't use the word "Prog" back then, I suppose...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2008 at 07:07
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Floyd were an essential part of, if not the first band in the Progressive music scene in the late 1960s (and "everyone" called it the Progressive music scene!), so Floyd can easily be argued to be the first Prog band.
 

It's true they didn't use the word "Prog" back then, I suppose...



We didn't use the word "prog', but "back then" we (progressive rock fans in the states, early 70s) certainly referred to bands like Crimson, Genesis, Yes, ELP, PFM etc as progressive rock. I think we sort of lumped Floyd in there too although they really were not playing the same kind of compositions as the previously mentioned bands. Floyd was also often grouped with bands like Hawkwind and called "space rock", which has already been mentioned.

As early as the late 60s and early 70s FM stations in the states that played long songs and album sides were called progressive rock radio or underground radio. I know, I was listening to these stations all the time.

Edited by Easy Money - July 29 2008 at 07:25
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2008 at 20:34
It actually depends on how important would you consider alternative rock nowadays in the music scene.......


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2008 at 16:45
 

My point of view on this matter has already been defended by some others but I would like to add some thoughts. Is Pink Floyd the most influential prog rock band? I would have to say No, but not because they were not influential, but because they were not a prog rock band. I always thought that Pink Floyd was an extremely influential psychedelic rock band with an enormous influence ON prog rock. Just like The Beatles, The Who, The Moody Blues, Deep Purple and some others, Pink Floyd surely contributed to the creation of prog rock which would make them either proto-prog or prog-related. Or am I wrong?

 

Pink Floyd’s first album came out already in 1967, the same year as Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s album (another factor that was an important influence on prog rock without being prog itself). I thought that prog rock began first in 1969/70 with King Crimson’s debut album, Renaissance’ debut album and then in the early 70’s with bands like Yes, Genesis and ELP(?) By that time Pink Floyd had released many albums already and most importantly, I think, they were already famous before prog rock even started. Maybe later on Pink Floyd was influenced back by prog bands just like The Who probably were when they did Quadrophenia in 1973. But the fact that The Who was influenced by prog bands and came close to prog later on doesn’t make them a “genuine” prog band does it? So, even if Pink Floyd influenced many prog bands in the late 60’s and then were influenced themselves by prog bands in the 70’s doesn’t make them a prog band. They had an influence on non-prog bands too right?

 

The Moody Blues is another band that I think was very influential on prog but without being prog themselves. The Moodies had success already in 1967 with their debut. This album, Days Of Future Past, as well as the subsequent ones were very influential on prog, but were they really prog?

 

Maybe Jethro Tull could prove me wrong because I do consider them prog even if they had success with their two first albums that weren’t really prog. Am I being inconsistent in considering JT prog but not Moody Blues and Pink Floyd? I don’t know.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2008 at 16:47
Originally posted by SouthSideoftheSky SouthSideoftheSky wrote:

 

My point of view on this matter has already been defended by some others but I would like to add some thoughts. Is Pink Floyd the most influential prog rock band? I would have to say No, but not because they were not influential, but because they were not a prog rock band. I always thought that Pink Floyd was an extremely influential psychedelic rock band with an enormous influence ON prog rock. Just like The Beatles, The Who, The Moody Blues, Deep Purple and some others, Pink Floyd surely contributed to the creation of prog rock which would make them either proto-prog or prog-related. Or am I wrong?

 

Pink Floyd’s first album came out already in 1967, the same year as Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper’s album (another factor that was an important influence on prog rock without being prog itself). I thought that prog rock began first in 1969/70 with King Crimson’s debut album, Renaissance’ debut album and then in the early 70’s with bands like Yes, Genesis and ELP(?) By that time Pink Floyd had released many albums already and most importantly, I think, they were already famous before prog rock even started. Maybe later on Pink Floyd was influenced back by prog bands just like The Who probably were when they did Quadrophenia in 1973. But the fact that The Who was influenced by prog bands and came close to prog later on doesn’t make them a “genuine” prog band does it? So, even if Pink Floyd influenced many prog bands in the late 60’s and then were influenced themselves by prog bands in the 70’s doesn’t make them a prog band. They had an influence on non-prog bands too right?

 

The Moody Blues is another band that I think was very influential on prog but without being prog themselves. The Moodies had success already in 1967 with their debut. This album, Days Of Future Past, as well as the subsequent ones were very influential on prog, but were they really prog?

 

Maybe Jethro Tull could prove me wrong because I do consider them prog even if they had success with their two first albums that weren’t really prog. Am I being inconsistent in considering JT prog but not Moody Blues and Pink Floyd? I don’t know.



This would be my post as well. Fantastic summarizing. ClapClapClap

I'm glad you posted it for me. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 30 2008 at 16:53
Originally posted by MovingPictures07 MovingPictures07 wrote:

This would be my post as well. Fantastic summarizing. ClapClapClap

I'm glad you posted it for me. Wink
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 17:53
Considering Kraftwerk are categorized as "Progressive Electronic" on here... I'd say they are easily as influential as PF - not on the progressive scene obviously, but on the general music scene.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 18:19
Originally posted by Certif1ed Certif1ed wrote:

Floyd were an essential part of, if not the first band in the Progressive music scene in the late 1960s (and "everyone" called it the Progressive music scene!), so Floyd can easily be argued to be the first Prog band.
 
 
Don't try to argue it with Gilmour though, because he actually said in a recent interview that Pink Floyd were not a progressive rock band, but an art rock band.
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 21:43
Haven't read all the posts so excuse me if this has already been said.
Floyd probably were the most influential band to get progressive rock in the mainstream public eye and accepted as an alternate music to pure pop or rock. However I certainly do not think they were the most influential prog band musically and artistically....I'd have to go with Yes, Crimson, Genesis & Gentle Giant.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 21:49
Well I do see Pink Floyd as truly progressive, but I can understand why people wouldn't think that way.
 
However, I think they are definetely the most influential prog band. Not influential to prog fans, but the most overall influential prog band. No other prog band has influenced more fans of music then these guys.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 22:13
Originally posted by topofsm topofsm wrote:

Well I do see Pink Floyd as truly progressive, but I can understand why people wouldn't think that way.
 
However, I think they are definetely the most influential prog band. Not influential to prog fans, but the most overall influential prog band. No other prog band has influenced more fans of music then these guys.


Influenced in what way?...to expose prog rock to a wider audience or influence future bands in a particular musical style...I agree with former but disagree with the latter.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 08 2008 at 22:36
Originally posted by Dr. Occulator Dr. Occulator wrote:

Originally posted by topofsm topofsm wrote:

Well I do see Pink Floyd as truly progressive, but I can understand why people wouldn't think that way.
 
However, I think they are definetely the most influential prog band. Not influential to prog fans, but the most overall influential prog band. No other prog band has influenced more fans of music then these guys.


Influenced in what way?...to expose prog rock to a wider audience or influence future bands in a particular musical style...I agree with former but disagree with the latter.
 
Well they have influenced the music making process of many bands in any way. For example, pretty much any fan of rock has at least heard of Pink Floyd and millions of people have heard their music. I can also say from experience that many musicians at folk festivals cite Pink Floyd as one of their influences. Many classical musicans I know are huge fans of Pink Floyd, and quite a few jazz fans like Pink Floyd.
 
However, I can't say the same for Yes, King Crimson, ELP, Genesis, Gentle Giant, Rush, or Jethro Tull. I can say that the latter bands have influenced more people who are mostly just fans of prog rock. Most prog bands will cite these bands more than Pink Floyd, at least in my experience.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2008 at 05:04
Originally posted by CCVP CCVP wrote:

I know that this topic will be quite controversial, but i have gathered some arguments that convinced me that Pink Floyd is possibly the most influential band of progressive rock.

1st: its the only progressive rock band to be listed in the top selling bands / artists of the world that did not changed substantially their style throughout their career, unlike Genesis.
2nd: when punk emerged, Pink Floyd was one of the main bands to be directly attacked by the punks as they were one of the main progressive rock bands.
3rd: unlike the other big progressive rock giants like Yes, Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, Jethro Tull and Gentle Giant, their influence reaches far beyond prog rock. For example, are dance versions of Run Like Hell, Comfortably Numb and Another Brick in the Wall pt2. Besides, On the Run is still played as a techno song by some DJs.
4th: Pink Floyd influenced many pop and pop rock bands, something that the progressive bands said above could not do so broadly, specially if you only consider their progressive periods.
5th: Among progressive rock bands, their reach is even bigger: they were capable to influence bands since the 70's until today and, unlike the many Yes, Genesis and ELP "clones", the Floydian clones or Floydian influenced bands usually get better grades here at the archives and sound much more original (that counting the 70's alone).
Today their reach on prog rock have become even greater: they were an influence from space rock / psychedelic rock to extreme progressive metal metal, passing through many other genres of prog in between.
6th: their line up change were important to consolidate the style of the band. Besides, compared to the other bands listed here as essential progressive rock bands, their line-up change was minimal.


To reinforce that, a small list of Pink Floyd-influenced bands : Dream theater, Pain of Salvation, Eloy, Negative Zone, Riverside, Opeth, Porcupine Tree, Pulsar and Violeta de Outono.

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first of all: Pink Floyd DID change their style substantially. while the early albums were very psychedelic the latter ones lost that psychedelic touch, and they became the big epic makers. the turning point probably was "Dark Side of the Moon", though the process was a gradual one. It is probably because of the gradual nature of style change that you don't realize it, but compare their early albums to their latter ones, and you will get the drift. the more this epic style evolved the worse they became; "Animals" is already quite boring, and I never understood the high rating of that album.
2nd: what the punks really attacked was the lack of spirit, which became obvious in many prog rock bands in the middle of the 70s; they were just going through the motions. Pink Floyd only was a prominent name; they certainly were not influential for the development of Punk. Van der Graaf Generator had a lot more influence there. Pink Floyd were also, compared to other prog bands, pretty simple in their musical structure, especially harmonically. so they don't have much of an influence their either. they did have a great influence on the development of sounds though; actually sounds were their biig forte. however, for their latter albums they forgot about that forte and replaced "sounds" with "sound", meaning "acoustical endeavours" with "perfection and sterility". they did what they sung about themselves in the song "Wish You Were Here".
3rd: there have been dance versions of songs from lot of other prog bands, not only Pink Floyd. even Gentle Giant have been mistreated that way; there was a post about it somewhere in the forum. anyway, "dance version" is a pretty misleading term; I actually believe that some of the originals are a lot more danceable than these so-called "dance versions". adding a heavy 4/4 beat only makes the dance more monotonous, which sadly applies to the moronic masses. dance is an art form.
as to the Floydian clones: I am not quite sure which bands you refer to. the only one that really comes to my mind is Eloy. but that's probably because Pink Floyd are not one of my favorite bands at all; I like some of their old albums, especially "Ummagumma" and ""Meddle", perhaps to a certain extent "Wish You Were Here"", but most of the stuff which is awed by many simply leaves me cold. I am not too fond of neo-prog though and try to avoid it; perhaps some of the clones can be found there. Dream Theater, however, are definitely not Floyd clones; they have a completely different approach to music.

so, after contradicting all your arguments, let us take a look at what the real influence of Pink Floyd was. as Certif1ed already mentioned, they were an influence on the Krautrock scene. that influence is a bit coincidental though. using drugs (and whatever Waters may say today, Pink Floyd did use drugs) will lead to this kind of, in lack of a better word for it, "fraying out" of music which is typical for some of the early Pink Floyd music as well as for early Karutrock..
their strive towards sound perfection, which I mentioned before, definitely also was a big influence, though in my opinion not a positive one. it led to the sterility of most of the newer music.
so yes, they were influential, but not the way CVVP means


Edited by BaldJean - September 09 2008 at 05:30


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