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Has The Archives lost it's way?
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siLLy puPPy View Drop Down
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PSIKE, JRF/Canterbury, P Metal, Eclectic

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Points: 15454 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 19 2023 at 10:37
Yeah it lost its way last April when it entered the wrong destination on Google Maps. I think it ended up in the Gobi desert in Mongolia. Hopefully it's learning some cool throat singing techniques.

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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It might be confusing to some just what this site represents.

Is the agenda too narrow or too wide?

Elitist or all encompassing?

One lump or two?
I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas
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Points: 30325 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richardh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2023 at 21:11
^ but does it represent prog when the front page includes bands that are barely relatable to prog? I would say NO. People come and go as they please and it's certainly a choice. Does it help drag in the casual music listener, possibly. BTW 445 posts in 7 years doesn't either suggest massive love for this site so the whole people have lost their way comment, how's that then? Daring to have a debate about the direction of the site is absolutely necessary imo.
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I really enjoy that ProgArchives includes other bands who are not necessarily prog.

I love seeing other bands included, people voting / rating albums, seeing appreciation for them.

More is better.. So if people don't like this site, they don't have to come to it. 

It's certain people who have lost their way....


Edited by Boojieboy - September 18 2023 at 17:14
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For me personally, Tommy has a very special place. It is not flawless, but I find the music very deep, and I think it fits the theme perfectly. The "See me, feel me" section of "Christmas" alone is one of the most emotional moments I can think of.
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Points: 46791 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 18 2023 at 09:25
Originally posted by altered_beast altered_beast wrote:

Yes I had the Tommy album. The only Who are I ever owned. I wasn’t blown away by it or anything. I didn’t think of it as the masterpiece everyone said it was. In fact I was disappointed even though I had a very low opinion of The Who.

Pet Sounds from The Beach Boys is another album with some Proto-Prog in it. Doesn’t mean that The Beach Boys belong on this site. But maybe the album does.

I thought of this a while back. How about instead of putting these artists in Proto-Prog that really don’t belong, put the albums instead. Honorable mentions to albums that helped shape and contribute to Prog. Give it its own section. Put albums like Pet Sounds, Tommy, The Soft Parade, Abbey Road, etc. It would be more compelling and welcomed by many. The confusion would end there. It would make a historical monument on its own. There is already a section similar to this with musicals and soundtracks that have Prog attached to them. This would make great mention of influential albums.


What I said about Tommy is that I imagine it was groundbreaking back in 1969, same way Sgt Pepper was in 1967 or Pet Sounds when it came out (although I for one have never warmed up to it). 

As it's been said before, big changes to PA will not happen. 

I don't understand why some people are confused about the proto-prog genre. Its purpose is very clear to me. 
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Yes I had the Tommy album. The only Who are I ever owned. I wasn’t blown away by it or anything. I didn’t think of it as the masterpiece everyone said it was. In fact I was disappointed even though I had a very low opinion of The Who.

Pet Sounds from The Beach Boys is another album with some Proto-Prog in it. Doesn’t mean that The Beach Boys belong on this site. But maybe the album does.

I thought of this a while back. How about instead of putting these artists in Proto-Prog that really don’t belong, put the albums instead. Honorable mentions to albums that helped shape and contribute to Prog. Give it its own section. Put albums like Pet Sounds, Tommy, The Soft Parade, Abbey Road, etc. It would be more compelling and welcomed by many. The confusion would end there. It would make a historical monument on its own. There is already a section similar to this with musicals and soundtracks that have Prog attached to them. This would make great mention of influential albums.



Edited by altered_beast - September 18 2023 at 09:15
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Points: 65860 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Atavachron Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 17 2023 at 14:30
Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Definitely seems like bait to me
Evidently, with the way this thread has morphed, the OP is a master baiter.


I made that joke about TheT nearly fifteen years ago.   Geesh how time flies.
"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by altered_beast altered_beast wrote:

When I think of Proto-Prog I think of Procol Harum, It’s a Beautiful Day, Family, etc. I know some of these bands are not listed in Proto-Prog.

Even though The Doors and The Who might have had some elements of Prog in the minority of their music I find it baffling to see them on a Prog website. I don’t think of them as Proto-Prog at all. They influenced Punk and probably many other genres also. Same with the Beatles. The Proto-Prog category is the one I have by far the most problems with.

Too many bands fit in more than just 1 category. I can think of that even changing from not only eras but album to album for some. I guess it’s based on the majority of their music or what category makes them best suited for Prog.

I don’t have a problem with some of these bands listed as Prog-Related. Some bands probably shouldn’t be there. I can name a few bands who should be there but are not. Maybe just not yet.

I listened to The Doors a lot when I was younger. Now I really can’t stand them. But when I did like them I thought of them as influential. But not Proto-Prog. I never thought The End qualified as a Prog epic. Long and psychedelic yes. Their last 2 albums had the most Prog elements and they showed much more maturity. Still not near enough to make it here. Vanilla Fudge Renaissance is a Proto-Prog album but the band definitely isn’t. Had they moved forward and never turned back I would definitely not have a problem with them being on here.

The proto-prog category helps understand the creation and evolution of early progressive music. 

The Who created one of the first rock operas (Tommy), an album with a good flow, I imagine quite ground-breaking when it came out. 

Early prog is rooted in psychedelic music (among other things). That's why I for one do not mind bands like The Who, The Doors, Vanilla Fudge, Deep Purple being on PA. 

I think Procol Harum and Moody Blues are proto-prog as well. Like you say, multiple tags would have been awesome. Smile




Edited by Cristi - September 17 2023 at 14:33
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When I think of Proto-Prog I think of Procol Harum, It’s a Beautiful Day, Family, etc. I know some of these bands are not listed in Proto-Prog.

Even though The Doors and The Who might have had some elements of Prog in the minority of their music I find it baffling to see them on a Prog website. I don’t think of them as Proto-Prog at all. They influenced Punk and probably many other genres also. Same with the Beatles. The Proto-Prog category is the one I have by far the most problems with.

Too many bands fit in more than just 1 category. I can think of that even changing from not only eras but album to album for some. I guess it’s based on the majority of their music or what category makes them best suited for Prog.

I don’t have a problem with some of these bands listed as Prog-Related. Some bands probably shouldn’t be there. I can name a few bands who should be there but are not. Maybe just not yet.

I listened to The Doors a lot when I was younger. Now I really can’t stand them. But when I did like them I thought of them as influential. But not Proto-Prog. I never thought The End qualified as a Prog epic. Long and psychedelic yes. Their last 2 albums had the most Prog elements and they showed much more maturity. Still not near enough to make it here. Vanilla Fudge Renaissance is a Proto-Prog album but the band definitely isn’t. Had they moved forward and never turned back I would definitely not have a problem with them being on here.
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Points: 13392 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 16 2023 at 07:48
Originally posted by Necrotica Necrotica wrote:

Definitely seems like bait to me

Evidently, with the way this thread has morphed, the OP is a master baiter.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Originally posted by Awesoreno Awesoreno wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

I thought that was The Handles?

Didn't they eventually change their name to the Knobs?
They did, but quickly became The Hinges after realizing the name wouldn't get passed the censors in the UK.


Were they related to the Doors detractors tribute band 'The Knockers'?
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I can't speak to whether or not PA has lost its way. But I CAN say that this conversation has lost its way.



And I like it.
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rdtprog View Drop Down
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Prog Archives has lost its way of sending me e-mail notifications on all my posts. Since the world is centered around me I don't care if anyone here has the same issue...
Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

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Points: 45330 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 15 2023 at 11:55
Originally posted by Octopus II Octopus II wrote:

I used to be in a Kraftwerk tribute band, we were sponsored by a UK margarine company - 'I can't believe it's not Hutter'.

I can't believe it's not Johnny Rotten. Shocked



Edited by Psychedelic Paul - September 15 2023 at 11:55
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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Hugh Manatee Hugh Manatee wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ so..... who's your favorite pirate?

I get the notion ye be a salty sea dog what likes to swash a few buckles.


I once bought one of those swashbuckling DVD movies starring Johnny Depp, but it turned out to be a pirate copy. Geek
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ so..... who's your favorite pirate?

Ian

Host of the Post-Avant Jazzcore Happy Hour on Progrock.com

https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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I used to be in a Kraftwerk tribute band, we were sponsored by a UK margarine company - 'I can't believe it's not Hutter'.
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I used to be in a Depeche Mode tribute video game cover band called Debuge Mode. B)
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Originally posted by Octopus II Octopus II wrote:

Back in the day, I used to be in a band called 'The Hinges'.

We opened for The Doors.

I used to be in a tribute band for The Cure. We were called The Prevention.

People said we were better than The Cure.
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