Dream Theater - the reasons

My reason for not liking them is just that. I don't like them! I don't enjoy listening to them! I don't know if there's a better reason really.

I've met a lot of people who can't stand ELP & Genesis due to their personal tastes, but hey...I live with it.

The Decision of the

"Union of Amalgamated Spotted Nerds and Middle Aged Analysts" (UASNMAA)

is that Dream Theater are one of the leading exponents of Prog/Metal.........

This should be recognised and accepted as FACT.

Anyone wishing to state that they personally find DT "not quite their cup of tea" are obliged to remember that UASNMAA's motto is as follows............

"We Shall smote thee squarely in the fizzog with a 1901 long handled Lock-key - see if we don't"

Edited by Swinton MCR

Dream Theater Own.

james may not be the best singer anyways, but at least he gives it his all, you can tell he's putting in 100%

Their prog metal, but now their abit more metal than prog...so what? their stil a great band...
IMO that style worked for them, i rate ToT high in my list.
They ARE musical geniouses whever you like it or not

mr_freeze338 wrote: Well, all those elements only reinforce my reasons for liking DT. Sounds to me like they have all that, but obviously not to everyone. I'm not really sure how you could judge spirit though... DT seems pretty dramatic to me, but I mean, any band that just goes all out could have "spirit". Are you talking about the way they perform live maybe? Their music really isn't monotone. About the form... hell, these guys went to berkley, and you're saying they have terrible song structure. Not terrible - just not progressive. Going to Berkley has nothing to do with what a person actually learns. Most of the tracks on "Images and Words" are in standard rock song format. That's not bad, just not adventurous, and doesn't really fit the prog category. Almost any Genesis album is a superlative for form in prog - some bands are even more adventurous. Form is not subjective - it is absolutely measurable. Most of this is subjective. The one thing nobody can really argue about is good technique, and my music's gotta have it. Melody - a good melody is one that is unfamiliar yet catchy. It will generally take time to grow, rather than be immediate - otherwise it's just a "hit". The best progressive melodies occur over a long period of time and develop naturally, avoiding obvious repetition. This could turn into an esaay very easily... Harmony is absolute. Even atonality can be described in terms of harmony. Harmony can be measured easily, and there are rules governing strong and weak harmony. The best prog rock finds ways to push existing rules, suspend or contract harmonic rhythm and prolong drama. Dream Theater use completely standard barre chords in the main, and conventional harmony with uninteresting progressions that break no barriers. Rhythm is trickier, but suffice to say there is not much in DT that is rhythmically inventive! Listen to Kid A by Radiohead for rhythmic invention. Timbre is almost completely a matter of taste - but like colours, some sounds work together and some don't. Some are horrible by themselves to some people, while others love them. Ultimately any discussion about music is subjective - some people dislike any form of music, and many people dislike prog. However, there are criteria by which we can judge music's qualities, and the 5 elements I listed are what it all boils down to.   " I get VERY bored of discussions that go..." I would too if nobody backed up their opinion. But arguing about subjective things, once again, is just as good as saying "I don't like them". So why bother discussing music at all? Why join in a discussion on reasons for NOT liking Dream Theater if you like them? I ALWAYS back up my opinion, and I'm always interested in discussing music - as technically as you like. That's why I'm here

Whilst I agree in general with Mr Cert's points re Dream Theater,I would have to point out that his comments concentrate mainly on "Images And Words". This is one of their earliest albums and surely it would be like judging Rush based on Caress of Steel.I would be interested to know his opinions of later works such as SDOIT.

Certif1ed wrote: I will be reviewing "Scenes from a Memory - Metropolis Part II" when I can stomach more listens - I hardly ever judge an album on 1st listen unless there's something special about it

Give us a shout when you are going in for another listen-and we'll hold a candlelight vigil.

 

All this "stuff" about melody and harmony is the very ESSENCE of music.

You can interpret what I'm saying and twist it about however you like, but you can't escape the truths behind the facts. Progressive music IS about breaking the rules and pushing the boundaries. To do that, you have to understand where the boundaries are. Most people interested in prog are very proud of the qualities in the music - and under analysis, real prog stands up.

It does matter what you do - it may sound good to you, but if it sounds like crap to everyone else, then you're outnumbered. It's crap alright!

You're avoiding the technical discussions, so I won't push that line any further.

The truth is that the writing on "Images and Words" doesn't hold a candle to proper prog - and the fact that you're saying "But it is if I say so" just goes to show that you're not really interested in this discussion.

"Progressive music IS about breaking the rules and pushing the boundaries."

What, so being the first band to combine Iron Maiden-like and Yes-like musci isn't pushing the boundaries? Like I said, no band can be COMPLETELY original. Metal riffs will be metal riffs. Play Rust In Piece by Megadeth and some people will say every song is the same. What do the metal heads say? That's right.

"You can interpret what I'm saying and twist it about however you like, but you can't escape the truths behind the facts."

What you're saying isn't "truth", it's opinion.

"Most people interested in prog are very proud of the qualities in the music - and under analysis, real prog stands up."

What, I'm not interested or proud now? If the first few prog bands were so great, yet by definition were "immature", how was their understanding of "prog" much better than DT's?

"It does matter what you do - it may sound good to you, but if it sounds like crap to everyone else, then you're outnumbered. It's crap alright!"

OOOOO, this'll get some replies. I thought you of all people would know it doesn't sound like crap to everyone else, seeing as they're incredibly popular on this website alone. Who's outnumbered here? Take a look at how many positive reviews DT has. Are all these people "ignorant" to what real prog is? Riiiiight.

"You're avoiding the technical discussions, so I won't push that line any further."

That's bullsh*t.

mr_freeze338 wrote: "Progressive music IS about breaking the rules and pushing the boundaries." What, so being the first band to combine Iron Maiden-like and Yes-like musci isn't pushing the boundaries? Like I said, no band can be COMPLETELY original. Metal riffs will be metal riffs. Play Rust In Piece by Megadeth and some people will say every song is the same. What do the metal heads say? That's right. Iron Maiden? Pushing the boundaries? I agree that no band can be completely original - most bands write their own riffs, however. Rust in Piece is stylistically similar throughout - what's that got to do with anything? Megadeth wrote their own riffs. "You can interpret what I'm saying and twist it about however you like, but you can't escape the truths behind the facts." What you're saying isn't "truth", it's opinion. Really? I thought I was the fount of all knowledge! "Most people interested in prog are very proud of the qualities in the music - and under analysis, real prog stands up." What, I'm not interested or proud now? If the first few prog bands were so great, yet by definition were "immature", how was their understanding of "prog" much better than DT's? I don't get where you're going with this - the first prog bands invented the genre. DT don't play prog on Images and Words, they play mid 1980's style metal with keyboards and ballads. I have yet to hear any actual prog from DT. "It does matter what you do - it may sound good to you, but if it sounds like crap to everyone else, then you're outnumbered. It's crap alright!" OOOOO, this'll get some replies. I thought you of all people would know it doesn't sound like crap to everyone else, seeing as they're incredibly popular on this website alone. Who's outnumbered here? Take a look at how many positive reviews DT has. Are all these people "ignorant" to what real prog is? Riiiiight. Read what I said again - did I mention DT in that paragraph? "You're avoiding the technical discussions, so I won't push that line any further." That's bullsh*t. OOOOO - what devastating repartee! You are avoiding the "technical stuff", you know. You're trying to take this discussion into an opinions exchange instead of focussing on the actual subject of this thread.