In light of my recent post about SM's music (especially between 1979 and 1982) having many progressive elements, should Simple Minds be officially included on the ProgArchives site?

NOTE:  If you have not heard songs from Reel to Real Cacophany, Empires and Dance, Sons and Fascination / Sister Feelings Call, *and* New Gold Dream, your vote will not be valid because these are their most progressive albums.

It's not like I'm asking to add the Backstreet Boys or something.  Simple Minds has written some serious music.  Very innovative and experimental.  I honestly wish that Brian Ferry had sung Don't You (Forget About Me).  Perhaps SM would have remained more progressive.

I don't see the problem.  You're including Asia.  Their music is no more progressive than SM's.  In fact, despite the all star line-up in the original Asia, SM's early music was more progressive than Asia's.

Furthermore, I certainly do not consider Supertramp a progressive band.  If you're going to include them, why not include Talking Heads?  Honestly, I really don't even think of Styx as a progressive band.  No more progressive than Boston and you did not include them.

It seems to me that there are a few inconsistencies in what is considered progressive.

felixxx wrote: why dont we add Wham! They are so prog

Innovative: yes.

Do I like them? Yes.

Prog:  no.

IMHO: because they're too much song based. I think they're more like a warmblooded new wave band. They did have Peter Gabriel and Roxy Music as examples. But they're purely electronical (no acoustic instruments as I recall), don't have epics. They're not very far from prog, but not prog.

Still, it's hard to decide. For me it's clear though: great band, especially in the early days, but not prog.

fractalman wrote: I don't think it's fair to label Simple Minds as New Wave.  They are nothing like Devo, OMD, A-ha, Art of Noise, or Thomas Dolby.  Their music had depth and was often much darker in tone.  Furthermore, although they may not have composed the longer epics like Yes and Genesis, they do have several songs over 6 minutes long; especially between 1979 and 1982.  Heck, Street Fighting Years has six songs that are over 6 minutes long!  They're not The Beach Boys!

Hey, don't degrade the Beach Boys  . Listen to some of THEIR almost progressive tracks like Surf's Up and Heroes And Villains.  Brian Wilson's masterpiece Smile is almost prog .

And don't get me wrong: if I say new wave I'm not degrading the SM either. New wave is very broad and I think that the influences were there allright: the SM were children of their time. New wave is also Joy Division, The Cure and Cabaret Voltaire. But I have to admit: if you could them new wave, you could call them just as easily prog. Good point.

Maybe they were a genre of their own. But they did see a resemblance between themselves and U2 and Echo and The Bunnymen as well. Being positive sounds in an age of doom-mongering, I guess.

Let's have the inclkusion of the Culture Club , Human League , Duran Duran , Split Enz , The The , ABC, Heaven 17 also then.......

Need I say more?????

Let's stop this bleeping nonsense, Please!!!!!

Hey, I was admitting that the majority may well be right.  You don't have to be a jerk about it!  Besides, the only band that you mention below that is the same caliber as SM is Duran Duran (although, their new album was very disappointing).

Sean Trane wrote: Let's have the inclkusion of the Culture Club , Human League , Duran Duran , Split Enz , The The , ABC, Heaven 17 also then....... Need I say more????? Let's stop this bleeping nonsense, Please!!!!!

that is an interesting poll

i like simple minds, and their street fighting years album nearly has  the prog style.

new gold dream is synth pop, while street fighting years is more atmospheric rock.

the fixx is more prog than simple minds though

fractalman wrote: Hey, I was admitting that the majority may well be right.  You don't have to be a jerk?!?!about it!  Besides, the only band that you mention below that is the same caliber as SM is Duran Duran (although, their new album was very disappointing). Sean Trane wrote: Let's have the inclkusion of the Culture Club , Human League , Duran Duran , Split Enz , The The , ABC, Heaven 17 also then....... Need I say more????? Let's stop this bleeping nonsense, Please!!!!!

Who is insisting on inclusion of SM?????

As I said in the other thread you posted in Bands Suggestions Forum , we have people insisting on band inclusion because they like prog and would like to have all of their tastes represented on this site. This is especially true for the younger generations who also monitor constantly the top 100 on the home page and are constantly worried about best of lists. I know , I was once young too!!!

True I do not like new wave bands !!!! They are responsible for the impoverishment of pop music with the awful rythm box-digital KB!!!! All those bands were concerned more with painting one fingernail black (or pink) than actually playing music , since it was all programmed in their synths. The early 80's were the sickest era as far as music is concerned. Late 80's a slight improvement and the 90's a big improvement.

I saw once Ultravox (around the Visage album era) and I saw five guys standing behind those synths pushing buttons and dancing behind it and that was it!!!!! For two hours!!!!!! Sure they took time to be synchronized and choreographed!!!! I went there as a bet with my-then-girlfriend as she wanted to convert me. I took her to see George Thorogood and The Destroyers and she danced rock'n roll for almost four hours, to the meanest sax-player/gunslinger on this side of the Pecos River! George was dripping sweat all over and when he spun around while playing his mean riffs , we were showered with his sweat (front row with our elbows on stage) but did not even feel it as we were all drenched anyway from our own and the neighbors. 

Lets George T & T D up for inclusion!!!! Just kidding of course.

She never once spoke of new wave groups again.

Yes Simple Minds were not the most typical new wave group and certainly not the worst either.... I would take them out in a class along with other early 80's bands such as XTC, Squeeze , InXS, Echo & Bunnymen, OMD , The Cure as rather more correct pop of the times.

If I remember well , they are scottish along with the Levellers and Big Country but simply not in the same league as Pallas (which is prog and BTW , I loathe Sentinel).

Except for Marillion's script the 80's were a lost decade even more so for prog than for the rest of rock. I was 19 and a newbie in University when Script came out! But I headed to the 60's for musical explorations.....

Sean:

I am not *insisting*.  I am *suggesting*.  Two completely different terms.

While some bands did use digital keyboards in a negative way, they are *not* bad instruments.  Heck, there are many bands and hip-hop outfits that use analog keyboards in a negative way!  Don't blame the keyboard!  Blame the player!  On that note, Mick MacNeil is an extremely innovative keyboard player on the same caliber as Jim Gilmour.  Very talented.  It is a shame that he left Simple Minds.

Furthermore, while it may be true that 90% of the bands out there, regardless of musical genre, were producing crap and more interested in how they looked than how they performed, Simple Minds was always about the music.  If Simple Minds was New Wave at all, they were the gods of New Wave.  Bands like Devo, OMD, and countless others paled in comparison.

It may be true that the New Gold Dream album sounds more poppish, but the live renditions of the material from that album (as played back in 1983) were anything but pop!

Lastly, I cannot stand George Thorogood!  I'd rather listen to Jimmy Buffet --and I don't like him either!

OK, so SM may not be prog enough to include here, but a person would have to be deaf in order not to hear prog elements in their music.

Sean Trane wrote: Who is insisting on inclusion of SM????? As I said in the other thread you posted in Bands Suggestions Forum , we have people insisting on band inclusion because they like prog and would like to have all of their tastes represented on this site. This is especially true for the younger generations who also monitor constantly the top 100 on the home page and are constantly worried about best of lists. I know , I was once young too!!!   True I do not like new wave bands !!!! They are responsible for the impoverishment of pop music with the awful rythm box-digital KB!!!! All those bands were concerned more with painting one fingernail black (or pink) than actually playing music , since it was all programmed in their synths. The early 80's were the sickest era as far as music is concerned. Late 80's a slight improvement and the 90's a big improvement. I saw once Ultravox (around the Visage album era) and I saw five guys standing behind those synths pushing buttons and dancing behind it and that was it!!!!! For two hours!!!!!! Sure they took time to be synchronized and choreographed!!!! I went there as a bet with my-then-girlfriend as she wanted to convert me. I took her to see George Thorogood and The Destroyers and she danced rock'n roll for almost four hours, to the meanest sax-player/gunslinger on this side of the Pecos River! George was dripping sweat all over and when he spun around while playing his mean riffs , we were showered with his sweat (front row with our elbows on stage) but did not even feel it as we were all drenched anyway from our own and the neighbors.  Lets George T & T D up for inclusion!!!! Just kidding of course. She never once spoke of new wave groups again.

^ George Thorogood is the essence of Rock'n roll !!!

Although he has not aged that well , nowadays.

Of course the players are to blame for bad music , but for the first time in music history, those synths allowed kids to do "music" without even writing a note and not even knowing how to hit a key properly..... Those synths produced the same sound whether you pounded on the key or even touched feeebly with your toe. They were more of computers remembering patterns and repeating them endelessly should you wish it.

fractalman wrote: In light of my recent post about SM's music (especially between 1979 and 1982) having many progressive elements, should Simple Minds be officially included on the ProgArchives site? NOTE:  If you have not heard songs from Reel to Real Cacophany, Empires and Dance, Sons and Fascination / Sister Feelings Call, *and* New Gold Dream, your vote will not be valid because these are their most progressive albums.

This is an excellent poll, and well-deserved.

Simple Minds is a brilliant band, totally underrated and under-appreciated. Virtually all their albums are great (and btw, while I have every one of their albums, I don't have a version of Don't You Forget About Me). I'd recommend starting with Reel to Reel Cacophony, Sons and Fascination/Sister Feeling Call, and Sparkle in the Rain. Round two would be Once Upon a Time, Good News from the Next World, and Cry.

If you like prog, if you like U2, this is a band worth checking out. Their #2 on my list of all-time concert attendance (6 times), 2nd only to Yes (25 times)

btw, new album Black and White 050505 is due early Sept

felixxx wrote: why dont we add Wham! They are so prog

Ignorance is bliss.

fractalman wrote: I don't see the problem.  You're including Asia.  Their music is no more progressive than SM's.  In fact, despite the all star line-up in the original Asia, SM's early music was more progressive than Asia's. Honestly, I really don't even think of Styx as a progressive band.  No more progressive than Boston and you did not include them. It seems to me that there are a few inconsistencies in what is considered progressive. felixxx wrote: why dont we add Wham! They are so prog

Touche! It's a joke that either Asia or Styx are on this web site, and both need to be booted right away.

Moogtron III wrote: But they're purely electronical (no acoustic instruments as I recall), don't have epics.

Moogtron, you're ill-informed. Simple Minds has a ton of instrumentals - usually one on every album, and another instrumental or two as b-sides. In fact, they put out they whole Themes series which was mostly dubs and instrumentals.

They also have have acoustic instruments: acoustic guitar, piano, even acoustic bass and bagpipes.

Finally, while none of their album-version tracks hit double digit run times, many approach the 10-minute mark.

Sure, they're not prog like Supper's Ready, but Simple Minds is not pop - it's great modern music to be taken seriously.

Sean Trane wrote: Let's have the inclkusion of the Culture Club , Human League , Duran Duran , Split Enz , The The , ABC, Heaven 17 also then....... Need I say more?????

Again, ignorance is bliss. How can you mention the ultra disposable Culture Club, and the brilliant social commentary of The The in the same sentence? Have you ever listened to Soul Mining or Infected?

If you were crying in your chocolate milk about the "lack" of good music in the 80s, it's just because you weren't paying attention. Because let me tell you this, it's only gotten worse since then, with (c)rap and hip-hop and grunge and nu-metal and boy bands. So WAKE UP!

greenback wrote: that is an interesting poll i like simple minds, and their street fighting years album nearly has  the prog style. new gold dream is synth pop, while street fighting years is more atmospheric rock. the fixx is more prog than simple minds though

Brother Greenback, you're missing some of their proggier albums. See my list above.

btw, Street Fighting Years was produced by none other than one-time Yes vocalist Trevor Horn, who also produced two Yes albums.

Maike wrote: I love Simple Minds. I recomend the Live in the City of Lights double album.they also have wonderful renditions and reworks of other songs, more atmospheric pieces that dont come in the studio versions - Someone Somewhere in Summertime and Big Sleep are incredible atmospheric tunes. Oh jungleland, Ghostdancing, Waterfront, Once upon a time, Promised you a miracle are closer to (hard, but not that hard) rock. Book of Brilliant things has a wonderful acoustic guitar solo and its just a great song, and if you measure prog by the lenght of its tunes (which for me is rubish), most of them are over 7 minutes. You have to ear (several times actually) in order to inhale its musical strength. Prog On.

This is an excellent recommendation, probably the best. The music on Live in the City of Light is very close to prog. Brilliant, atmospheric album.

kirklott wrote: greenback wrote: that is an interesting poll i like simple minds, and their street fighting years album nearly has  the prog style. new gold dream is synth pop, while street fighting years is more atmospheric rock. the fixx is more prog than simple minds though Brother Greenback, you're missing some of their proggier albums. See my list above. btw, Street Fighting Years was produced by none other than one-time Yes vocalist Trevor Horn, who also produced two Yes albums.

well, kirklott, i own street fighting years, new gold dream, sparkle in the rain and once upon a time: they are all quite different, so thayt simple minds are very chameleon! after all, maybe street fighting years in not their most progressive one!

greenback wrote: well, kirklott, i own street fighting years, new gold dream, sparkle in the rain and once upon a time: they are all quite different, so thayt simple minds are very chameleon! after all, maybe street fighting years in not their most progressive one!

Somebody suggested Live in the City of Light, which is an excellent suggestion. On the album the tracks are longer, more atmospheric, etc.

I guess I need to clarify, I don't consider Simple Minds prog, but they are an awesome, very intelligent band with many facets that will appeal to prog fans.