Flute fatigue

Gnik Nosmirc wrote: I've been wondering lately why so many contemporary prog songs feature flutes. I don't remember old prog relying so much on flute, aside perhaps from Focus or Tull. ... Also, do you agree with Focus being the best prog flute?

Hi,

Goodness ... isn't a flute an instrument that plays music? Not sure, that it is used more today than it was yesterday in prog or otherwise. Instruments come and go and folks think up ideas about the pipers! No instrument has anything to do with "contemporary prog" any more than another, although the whole definition these days is almost centered exclusively on a guitar player and bad drumming and lesser used instruments are ignored. Again, the instruments used are NOT what the whole thing of "progressive" is all about ... which has become more of a commercial definition, than it has been a serious musical definition.

Thijs Van leer is not quite the biggest or the best out there in the flute, and I would even suggest he is a better keyboard player than he is a flute player, since he can do funny antics when playing keyboards, and not as much when playing the flute.

I think his best playing, might have been his first solo albums, where he played the flute exclusively, to a lot of classical music, and those 3 albums (Introspection) are worth having, and ARE NOT contemporary prog at all. But I tend to think that the best flute players are in the jazz area of things, because the "progressive" and "fan-rock" thing has become so limiting and boring ... the flute comes on when there would be a guitar passage, for example. It isn't an instrument used as a part of the whole thing you almost could say, though this is not always the issue or the case.

As for "prog flute" ... I'm still looking for "prog dinner" so I can have a proper meal without ....... blah and blah ... and other progressive experimental instruments. All instruments can BE PROGRESSIVE depending on how they are used.

Edited by moshkito - July 07 2025 at 07:16

Surely some kind of percussion came first (well and singing), but the flute is probably about as old as mankind. It's timeless, it's mysterious, it's nature and a thing of wonder. Some do it better than others, but you can say that about any instrument and anything else. The more flute the better.

^I wrote basically the same, didn't I?

Maybe I'm listening to the wrong newer prog bands but I don't hear the flute much in modern prog.

Gnik Nosmirc wrote: I know prog isn’t tied to any specific instrument

Nonsense! Of course it is! And that instrument is the Mellotron.

Gnik Nosmirc wrote: ... The first part of your comment is pretty pointless. I know prog isn’t tied to any specific instrument, and I wasn’t trying to suggest that flute is required for prog. ...

Hi,

I probably need to reword what I wanted to state. I would never think that you suggested that flute is a requirement ... in essence no instrument (specifically) is a requirement, with the exception of all the listing these days, having too much "progrock" and many of those, in my ears, have a tendency to cut down the number of instruments into something simpler, which, might, on the odd days, make it difficult to include other instruments.

What I was thinking about, didn't come out, and it was that in Europe, there is a wider appreciation for a variety of music, and you will likely hear more instruments (including the flute and woodwinds) than otherwise, like America, where the radio/rock sound is more important, but seeing new bands listed in the Japanese and Italian threads (for example) and many of the new things shown are extremely conventional, and I can not even name one of them I heard that had a flute!

Gnik Nosmirc wrote: ... I was saying that some modern prog uses the flute in a dull way to make their songs seem “artsy,” as if flute were mandatory. Ironically, you made the same point in the second part of your comment. ...

Either way we look at it, it might end up not sounding right, and the artsy part generally won't sound right or just be fairly boring and small.

Gnik Nosmirc wrote: ... Sorry for the passive-aggressive tone, but I really don’t get why you’re so upset about my observation. I just think the flute tends to feel cliché in the context of some contemporary prog. [QUOTE=Saperlipopette!] Surely some kind of percussion came first (well and singing), but the flute is probably about as old as mankind. It's timeless, it's mysterious, it's nature and a thing of wonder. Some do it better than others, but you can say that about any instrument and anything else. The more flute the better.

I think there is a side of this that is kinda funny, or weird, depending on how we look at it. If it is given the spotlight, it usually gets a nice part ... but if it is basically a "filler" then it falls down in my book.

When it comes to flute and woodwinds, I'm more of a Bloomdido Bad De Grasse person ... and all his life, his material in GONG was special, and as he continues playing and experimenting these days, almost even better work. But, unlike the majority of flute players, the work in GONG allowed some more freedom and work than most flute dessert stuff we get to hear, in general.

I like how the flute is used in Agusa ... and in this case it is a major instrument, not a background thing, which is how I separate and define things.

Another great example, over the years in so many albums ... PP get his album listing please ... is Mel Collins ... by the time we get done reading how much he has done, we will be out of breath.

Edited by moshkito - July 07 2025 at 22:11

moshkito wrote: Another great example, over the years in so many albums ... PP get his album listing please ... is Mel Collins ... by the time we get done reading how much he has done, we will be out of breath.

Mel Collins was my favorite change to the last King Crimson line up. He really added something new to the sound and the old material.

Just about every prog band features guitar... is there any fatigue for guitar in prog? or for keyboards?

Dellinger wrote: Just about every prog band features guitar... is there any fatigue for guitar in prog? or for keyboards?

Hi,

That's usually my point ... it just gets to be rather boring, when so many things end up sounding the same. C'mon, we can start with guitar fatigue real quick, and probably never get done mentioning different folks and bands!

But the bigger issue, for me, would be how those instruments get used ... when they are all the same (so to speak) and the design/formula for the work keeps the guitar in the same place, and the keyboards likewise ... not to mention that there is not a whole lot that is new in how they are used ... oh, excuse me ... a different pedal!

By comparison, we could easily say that Vangelis, Ryuichi and Keith were quite special even with a band ... rarely did you not noticed them. And this is where a lot of the "progressive" thing has fallen off ... the musicians are just following an idea and don't always have a strong idea of what their music itself is about, except an idea somewhere in the universe or words! That's not to say that the above mentioned three had it figured out, but by the time we hear them, it is so different that it is impossible for us to not think that it was intentionally so, instead of just following the formula du jour like so many bands do in the listings here.

I guess that is supposed to get them noticed somewhere, right? Good luck?

Scratching through my shelves:
Hawkwind
Steve Hackett
Floh De Cologne
Oktober
Eloy
Niemen
Annexus Quam
Gong
King Crimson
Mythos
Drosselbart
Amon Düül II
Novalis
Jethro Tull
Van Der Graaf Generator
Virus
Juds Gallery
Topas
Hanuman
Brainstorm
PFM
Cos
Latte e Miele
Brainticket
Semiramis
Ibliss
Il Rovescio Della Medaglia
Fusion Orchestra

These are some bands from the classic era that used flute in their sound.
I'm sure there are many others.