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CCVP 
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Joined: September 15 2007
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 Topic: Blues or Jazz (influences on prog)?
Posted: March 07 2010 at 11:58 |
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Browsing though the internet, I found this question in a small forum that discussed progressive rock. The question was: which genre was the most influential to progressive rock and it's sub-genres, blues or jazz? And i bring this question to you, m y fellow proggers, which was the most influential?
I, personally, think it was blues, because the majority of the big 8 were heavily blues influenced: Jethro Tull, Pink Floyd, Gentle Giant, ELP, Genesis and Rush, along with a multitude of other bands, such as Kansas.
What about you, what do you think?
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:04 |
There would have been no prog without blues because there wouldn't have been any rock in the first place. That's my stand 
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Raff
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:05 |
Agree with both of you, though for some people mentioning blues and prog in the same breath seems to be tantamount to heresy  .
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Green Shield Stamp
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:17 |
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I think that the jazz innovations of the 1960s (Miles Davis and John Coltrane et al) had a massive influence on Prog. You can hear it especially in the instrumental passages of Canterbury Scene bands. Although many British Prog bands started out playing blues, their progginess (if I can use that term) grew and developed as they moved away from their blues roots. Jethro Tull are a good example of this.
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Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:20 |
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I think Jazz is more prominent in modern-day prog music, but Blues was where it all started in the first place, so Blues, I guess.
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friso
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 12:51 |
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Jazz of course. Four note chords (or more), complex rhythms, usage of different keys, abstract improvisation, string arrangements, modulation in chord progressions, atmospheric play and lot of other prog elements were all invented in the jazz scenes. Finally only the rock sound came from the blues moment. This seems like a reasonable argument for Jazz in this matter.
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JLocke
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:00 |
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^ I already noted how prominent the Jazz influence is in Prog Rock, but it IS Prog ROCK. And Rock came from Blues.
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lucas
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:12 |
Toute la musique que j'aime, elle vient de là elle vient du blues...
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Green Shield Stamp
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:15 |
 JLocke wrote:
^ I already noted how prominent the Jazz influence is in Prog Rock, but it IS Prog ROCK. And Rock came from Blues. |
But Prog quickly moved away from the narrow confines of blues-based rock, defining itself as a more jazz influenced form. Children (Prog) are not the same as their parents (Blues). They can be influenced by so many other factors (Jazz for example) when growing up to become unique individuals.
You seem to be confusing the idea of influence with the idea of origination:
in·flu·ence: the capacity or power of persons or things to be a compelling force on or produce effects on the actions, behavior, opinions, etc., of others (eg Prog was most heavily influenced by Jazz)
Whereas
o·rig·i·nate to give origin or rise to; initiate; invent. (eg many Prog bands originated out of the British Blues Boom of the mid 1960s)
Edited by Green Shield Stamp - March 07 2010 at 13:24
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Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
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lucas
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Location: France
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:21 |
Blues for the rock base, jazz and classical for the "hey you see we play a complex music"
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
Joined: November 18 2007
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:24 |
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^ Exactly. it's a bit of both. But personally, I feel blues is what laid the foundation for Prog Rock just as it laid the foundations for all Rock music.
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Progosopher
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:31 |
It is virtually impossible to say with complete certaintly whether the blues or jazz influences were larger for prog rock. When you want to all-out rock, go for the blues angle, when you want to extrapolate, go for the jazz. This is not to say they cannot be combined. One form of music does not exclude another, and to follow through on what Stamp said, children require two parents.  I would not consider blues and jazz sub-genres of prog.
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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"
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SergiUriah
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:36 |
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I think jazz...
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JLocke
Prog Reviewer
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:38 |
Progosopher wrote:
I would not consider blues and jazz sub-genres of prog. |
But Jazz-Rock is.
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CPicard
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:44 |
lucas wrote:
Toute la musique que j'aime, elle vient de là elle vient du blues...
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Lucas. Non, mais, oh, franchement, tu croyais que PERSONNE sur le forum ne verrait ça ??? 
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harmonium.ro
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:49 |
^
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lucas
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 13:53 |
CPicard wrote:
lucas wrote:
Toute la musique que j'aime, elle vient de là elle vient du blues...
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Lucas.
Non, mais, oh, franchement, tu croyais que PERSONNE sur le forum ne verrait ça ???
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Couldn't help quoting our National Hero...I thought that matched perfectly the topic...
Oh, and for the ones who don't understand french it says : "all the music I like, it comes from there it comes from blues" it's a quote from johnny Hallyday...
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Raff
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 14:10 |
Is Johnny Hallyday your National Hero? I remember him from many, many years ago ... Ah, and I do understand French too, so you're not safe from my all-seeing eye !
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lucas
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 14:41 |
^
well, I think he sold much more albums than any other french artist...
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"Magma was the very first gothic rock band" (Didier Lockwood)
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Icarium
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Posted: March 07 2010 at 14:42 |
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Gentle Giant even as complex they were never ventured to far without having atleast one blues guitar solo (or element), and many of their songs are basecley blues just VERRY complex structured, music with all the genres they have playd, blues is their backbone, spine, heart, und zu weiter.
Edited by aginor - March 07 2010 at 16:15
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Blues or Jazz (influences on prog)?
