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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13338 |
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The only thing that is clear is repetitive inanity, historical butchery, semantic gymnastics and pretzel logic. Prog Archives should not be a place for this nonsense. And it is nonsense.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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jamesbaldwin ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 6052 |
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Ah, ok, so the will to commit so that this thread is closed is clear. |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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jamesbaldwin ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 6052 |
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I have no problem if you consider Zelenskij a hero. On the other hand, I hope that you and Steve G do not come here yet with the aim of misrepresenting what I have written (as you did here with me), insulting (as Steve has already done to me) by calling me anti-democratic, distorting any reasoned reflection with the aim of closing also this thread. I would advice you and Steve, if you are unable to refrain from insults or meaningless comparisons like the one you just did, to open your own thread on the war. I claim my right to say what I think of Zelenskij, that is, that I consider him a dangerous leader, who is campaigning in an offensive campaign to get NATO and Europe into war, causing World War III. I thought he was like that before the war, and now at my eyes he doesn't become a hero of democracy because Ukraine is being invaded by Putin. And there is no possible comparison with the raped woman who asked for it in what I have written. Democracy is just that: expressing our political views, whatever they may be. Pretend that Zelensky is free from criticism is undemocratic. What interests me in this war is precisely to safeguard democracy, which is the first thing that fails with war. With the war begins the censorship, the single thought begins: the bad and the good etc. the complex analyzes are over, everything has to be simplified and cheered. I am foreign to this logic, and therefore I criticize Europe that sells arms to Ukraine, including Italy (which in its Constitution says that it repudiates war as a tool for resolving conflicts), I criticize the blackout of two Russian sites , Russia Today and Sputnik, because this makes us Europeans less democratic, and less informed, because in order to discover the propaganda of the two fronts, it is also necessary to analyze what the official Russian sources are writing, I criticize the Italian news programs that every evening give space to Zelenskij who punctually tries to terrify us by saying that Putin has a plan to strike Chernobyl without anyone explaining that there is no evidence, and so on. Fortunately, there are also politicians and intellectuals who do not participate in this war logic where reasoning and analysis are no longer possible. Edited by jamesbaldwin - March 16 2022 at 19:53 |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10732 |
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The Dark Elf ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: February 01 2011 Location: Michigan Status: Offline Points: 13338 |
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Approximately four million Ukrainians were starved to death by Stalin. This is an unequivocal fact. You can't gloss it over, you can't quote dead Communist platitudes to make it anything other than genocide. The Ukraine owes Russia nothing. There is no "history" that makes the Ukraine part of Russia other than domination. Ukraine is a sovereign country invaded by a megalomaniacal narcissist. You can vomit out whatever whataboutisms you wish. You can propound gibberish logic regarding the imaginary fears of a paranoid 5'6'' a**hole. But Putin and the Putin apologists on this thread can go f*ck themselves.
I've asked for this asinine thread to be closed, but I guess things have to get out of hand before that happens. So be it.
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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology... |
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tszirmay ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TbzV1it1YPY&ab_channel=GlobalNews
The absurdity of Russian authoritarianism Edited by tszirmay - March 16 2022 at 19:31 |
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Pol Pot, Hussain, Kim Jong, Putin. They never end.
Edited by SteveG - March 16 2022 at 19:26 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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tszirmay ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
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And of course what is never mentioned is that Ukraine asked to be a member of NATO and not the other way around. Poland and Hungary asked for membership hours after getting rid of the Warsaw Pact troops that went back to Russia in 1991. Proof in Ukraine's case: Both France and Germany vetoed (I repeat VETOED) their candidacy on more than one occasion. One surely can't blame the Yanks for that?
Furthermore, NATO bombing of Serbia was , as I had stated earlier in another fossilized thread, began 4 years after Srebenica , was because the mighty EU did not want to intervene. Why? France was leaning to the Serbian side while Germany was instead more favourable to the Croatians. Perhaps if NATO would withdraw to Omaha, Juno, Gold and Utah beaches back in Normandy , Putin may feel reassured to rein in his paranoid war machine (as well as some of our more fervent orators on this thread to be right) .
Edited by tszirmay - March 16 2022 at 19:22 |
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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tszirmay ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
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In Putin's mind: " Russia without Ukraine is a country, but Russia with Ukraine is an empire" . But in Russia, 110 people own 35% of the wealth , the most unequal country in the world , except for North Korea where 1 person owns 100% of the wealth. The 110 want an empire again. The real Putin emerged in February 2007 at the Munich conference. What he said then is what he is doing now, just like with Mein Kampf.......He is not a hypocrite but he is a professional liar (as per his career in Dresden) .
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10732 |
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I hope we do not get anymore of this 'blame the victim' nonsense from the previous page. Reminds me of when people say a rape victim was just 'asking for it'. I find such thinking to be extremely disturbing.
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10732 |
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tszirmay ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
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Word! Well said!
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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tszirmay ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: August 17 2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 6673 |
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When a loud mouth little fascist oligarch wannabe, with his playboy looks, starts yelling at a Russian officer, you wonder why he doesn't shave his head, take his shoe off and start banging it on the podium, saying "We Will bury you" (the Ukrainians). Despicable......
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Easy Money ![]() Special Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10732 |
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Ten citizens standing in a bread line gunned down by putin's army.
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jamesbaldwin ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 6052 |
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The logic of war: if anyone doesn't praise Zelenskyj, if anyone doesn't consider him a hero, then ... this can only be born from his anti democracy, pro socialist stance.... ![]() |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
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Whatever reason you have to malign Zelenskyy can only be born from your anti democracy, pro socialist stance. To freedom loving people, he is a hero in an era when so few exist
Edited by SteveG - March 16 2022 at 17:47 |
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jamesbaldwin ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: September 25 2015 Location: Milano Status: Offline Points: 6052 |
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It is clear that only the Ukrainians can decide their fate, and speaking of this matter, I would like to know how many of them approve of Zelenskij's war policy: it is wrong to assume that they agree with him. Said this, I think that: 1) If you want to negotiate, you must be willing to give something, otherwise there can be no negotiation 2) If you want to wage war to the bitter end, it is not indifferent to European nations: they will have to host many refugees 3) an outside observer like me, just as he judges Putin's war as a criminal, also judges the behavior of Zelenskij, the European Union, Italy, etc. In my opinion Zelenskij is proving to be an unreliable and dangerous politician because every day he sends false news (Chernobyl), creates provocative videos (Paris bombed), asks for NATO to enter the war, offends Europe which should show pride and go to war etc. 4) Crimea has been occupied by Russia for years, and in any case its ethnic-linguistic composition, as far as I know, is predominantly Russian. Now, a referendum would be the best thing for Crimea and Donbass (and I believe the option to stay in Ukraine would not win) but obviously it would have to be done in peacetime and under the UN control. |
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Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Hugh Manatee ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 07 2021 Location: The Barricades Status: Offline Points: 1587 |
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One of the thing that concerns and alarms me about this current conflict is that one person can have the say over the fate of so many.
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I should have been a pair of ragged claws
Scuttling across the floors of uncertain seas |
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Lewian ![]() Prog Reviewer ![]() ![]() Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 15395 |
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I believe that in principle there's only one authority to decide about where Crimea and the Donbass region belongs, and that's the people of these regions. From the outside nobody is entitled to say they "are really Russian" (or Ukrainian for that matter). We should not play Putin's game to derive something like a "true nature" of regions by shady historical or ethnical arguments ("Crimea is Russian"). And neither can this be determined by, say, referenda or declarations in the midst of war with people having a gun pointed at their head, as Putin seems to believe. If I say that I can imagine that the Ukrainians accept to lose these regions, I say this grudgingly and for purely pragmatic reasons, to save lives and to avoid further escalation. Democracy is an ideal but where it doesn't exist, other considerations will decide what happens, which is acknowledging reality, nothing else. For sure I will not buy into any reasoning that states some kind of "natural right" of anyone there (neither Russia nor Ukraine nor Ukrainian wives of best friends) other than the people of these regions themselves, and of course if they are split on this, it's a tough problem they have to deal with themselves ultimately. The fact that people are displaced and population willfully changed by external forces doesn't help either.
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