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Porcupine Tree: The Great Debate

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Poll Question: Which music genre best describes Porcupine Tree?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
5 [13.89%]
1 [2.78%]
0 [0.00%]
22 [61.11%]
4 [11.11%]
1 [2.78%]
0 [0.00%]
3 [8.33%]
You can not vote in this poll

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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 09:44
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Come on Cristi, get with the program or hand in your prog badge and gun.


Like I said, it's the first time I hear of post-prog, that is why I thought you made a joke.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 09:38
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Post Prog.



Post-progressive

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Rock subgenre related to progressive rock
Post-progressive
Stylistic origins
Cultural originsc. 1978
Other topics

Post-progressive is a type of rock music[1] distinguished from vintage progressive rock styles, specifically 1970s prog.[2] Post-progressive draws upon newer developments in popular music and the avant-garde since the mid-1970s.[2] It especially draws from ethnic musics and minimalism, elements which were new to rock music.[3][4] It is different from neo-progressive rock in that neo-prog pastiches 1970s prog, while "post-progressive" identifies progressive rock music that stems from sources other than prog.[2]

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Contents

Definition[edit]

Further information: Progressive music

"Post-progressive" is rock music which distinguishes itself from the persistent style of 1970s prog, seeking a return to the genre's original principles.[2] The "post" is meant to acknowledge the development of other forms of avant-garde and popular music since the mid 1970s; it does not reference "postmodernism".[2] Purveyors explicitly embrace new computer technologies and sounds.[6] Some post-progressive bands still draw upon selective aspects of vintage prog, even as they actively seek to distance themselves from the style.[7] Particular influences on latter-20th century post-progressive artists include Jimi Hendrix, Frank Zappa, the Beatles, and King Crimson.[8]

In the opinion of King Crimson's Robert Fripp, progressive music was an attitude, not a style. He believed that genuinely "progressive" music pushes stylistic and conceptual boundaries outwards through the appropriation of procedures from classical music or jazz, and that once "progressive rock" ceased to cover new ground – becoming a set of conventions to be repeated and imitated – the genre's premise had ceased to be "progressive".[9] According to Paul Hegarty and Martin Halliwell, post-progressive did not directly derive from psychedelia, folk, and jazz as prog rock did, instead citing "explicit reference points of post-progressive music" lying within ambient, folk rock, forms of jazz, krautrock, the minimalism of New York art rock, and electronic music.[2]

David Sylvian performing with Japan, 1979

Academic Kevin Holm-Hudson argues that "progressive rock is a style far more diverse than what is heard from its mainstream groups and what is implied by unsympathetic critics ... [one may] wonder where progressive rock 'ends' and becomes psychedelia, free jazz, experimental art music, or heavy metal."[7] He categorizes post-progressive as a subgenre of progressive rock, whereas post-rock is a subgenre of alternative rock.[10] Nosound's Giancarlo Erra believes that "post-prog"—deployed by the label Kscope—denotes a mixture of progressive rock and post-rock.[11] Hegarty and Halliwell note: "Post-progressive identifies progressive rock that stems from sources other than progressive rock. This does not spread the net to include all avant-rock from the 1980s and 1990s ... post-progressive rock feeds a more explicit return to prog: in other words, a return that is not one. This trend is best exemplified by two British avant-rock acts of the 1980s and early 1990s: David Sylvian and Talk Talk."[12]

History[edit]

For more background and context, see Progressive rock § Decline and fragmentation.
See also: New wave
Brian Eno in the 1970s

Post-progressive's beginning may be located after 1978.[13] Author Bill Martin argues that Robert Fripp, Bill Laswell, and Peter Gabriel could all be considered transitional figures in post-progressive rock, crediting Brian Eno as the music's most important catalyst, and explaining that his 1973–77 solo albums merged "warped aspects of progressive rock" with "a strange premonition of punk" and "the first approximations of new wave".[14] Additionally, Talking Heads expanded new wave by combining the urgency of punk rock with the sophistication of progressive rock, as Martin writes: "A good deal of the more interesting rock since that time is clearly 'post-Talking Heads' music, but that means it is post-progressive rock as well."[14] After the 1970s, the post-progressive style followed in the traditions of King Crimson's 1981 album Discipline, with its introduction of minimalism and ethnic musics, elements which were new to rock.[3]

Hegarty and Halliwell credit Radiohead for creating "a new wave of progressiveness", explaining that "Radiohead's reintegration of rock into a post-progressive context ... they did not need to refer back to the sounds or styles of 1970s prog rock in order to make authentic progressive rock."[15]

Come on Cristi, get with the program or hand in your prog badge and gun. Tongue


Edited by SteveG - October 21 2019 at 09:43
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote TerLJack Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 09:26
Well that's the problem with musicians, innit?
Not content to just stay in their genres.  The nerve.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 09:10
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:


Christi, if you take a look at the beginning of this thread then you'll see I selected Heavy Prog as the closest description of Porcupine Tree's diverse music, which just happens to be  the same genre as listed on ProgArchives, so why would you ask sarcastically if PA's genre selections aren't good enough for me?


So you finally paid attention to PA genres

It's a start I guess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 09:00
Christi, if you take a look at the beginning of this thread then you'll see I selected Heavy Prog as the closest description of Porcupine Tree's diverse music, which just happens to be  the same genre as listed on ProgArchives, so why would you ask sarcastically if PA's genre selections aren't good enough for me?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 08:52
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Post Prog.

 
That's an interesting suggestion. I never thought of that, although I COULD include Post Prog in the poll if you want to vote for it. I could swap Post Rock for Post Prog. Smile


I find your constant changing poll options just to please everyone rather apalling. When or if you feel someone might come with a different opinion, just make a(n) "other" option.

And "post prog" is I believe a silly answer on Steve's part.
.

I'm not able to add additional options to the poll once it's been posted, so the only way I can add another option is by swapping it with an existing genre. There IS a genre called Post-Progressive, so it's a perfectly reasonable proposition that Porcupine Tree could be considered Post-Progressive and I'm assuming Steve's answer was honest and genuine. If Steve's suggestion wasn't meant to be taken seriously, then he probably would have posted a smiley face next to his "Post Prog"  suggestion. Smile
 
Logan has very kindly set it up so we can edit our own polls now and I'm making the best use of that handy additional feature. Smile I wasn't able to edit my polls initially when I signed up here last month.




Oh my god, you haven't understood a word I said. Let me try again.

In the future, when you wanna make a poll, if you think some users may come up with something different, make the last option simply say "other".

As for post-prog, it's the first time I see it used, that's why I thought it's a joke.

PA genres not good enough for you Paul?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote omphaloskepsis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 08:40
Their first few albums are psychedelic/Space but the majority is Heavy. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 08:16
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Post Prog.

 
That's an interesting suggestion. I never thought of that, although I COULD include Post Prog in the poll if you want to vote for it. I could swap Post Rock for Post Prog. Smile


I find your constant changing poll options just to please everyone rather apalling. When or if you feel someone might come with a different opinion, just make a(n) "other" option.

And "post prog" is I believe a silly answer on Steve's part.
.
I'm not able to add additional options to the poll once it's been posted, so the only way I can add another option is by swapping it with an existing genre. There IS a genre called Post-Progressive, so it's a perfectly reasonable proposition that Porcupine Tree could be considered Post-Progressive and I'm assuming Steve's answer was honest and genuine. If Steve's suggestion wasn't meant to be taken seriously, then he probably would have posted a smiley face next to his "Post Prog"  suggestion. Smile
 
Logan has very kindly set it up so we can edit our own polls now and I'm making the best use of that handy additional feature. Smile I wasn't able to edit my polls initially when I signed up here last month.


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - October 21 2019 at 08:23
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cambus741 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 08:08
the heavier end of progressive rock 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote digdug Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 07:31
Heavy works fine

as someone said above

all of the options are OK except for 
Neo and  Post
Prog On!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 07:25
Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:


Post Prog.

 
That's an interesting suggestion. I never thought of that, although I COULD include Post Prog in the poll if you want to vote for it. I could swap Post Rock for Post Prog. Smile


I find your constant changing poll options just to please everyone rather apalling. When or if you feel someone might come with a different opinion, just make a(n) "other" option.

And "post prog" is I believe a silly answer on Steve's part.
.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 06:47
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Post Prog.
 
That's an interesting suggestion. I never thought of that, although I COULD include Post Prog in the poll if you want to vote for it. I could swap Post Rock for Post Prog. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 06:37
Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

Post Prog.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote chopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 06:35
I would say they started off kind of spacey and went heavy, but overall it doesn't really matter. As someone else said, we need tags rather than specific genre assignments.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote SteveG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 06:12
Post Prog.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 06:01
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

^ PT is the definitive reason PA needs a multi-tag system where every album can be labeled accordingly. May it be so some distant day
 
That sounds like an excellent idea but it would require an enormous amount of work to categorise each album by genre individually, considering the HUGE size of the ProgArchives database.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote siLLy puPPy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 05:54
^ PT is the definitive reason PA needs a multi-tag system where every album can be labeled accordingly. May it be so some distant day

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote progaardvark Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 05:35
I remember when they were once filed under Psychedelic/Space Rock on ProgArchives.

Here's a snapshot of their PA page back in 2007:

Their transition to a heavier sound started with Signify, but it was a slow transition that led to In Absentia, partly inspired by Wilson's working with Opeth at the time. They still maintained the psych/space feel during this transition. It seemed to me more of a blend of the two subgenres. When I first discovered them in the late 1990s, they were often described as "making the music Pink Floyd should have been making in the 90s."

Although I voted Heavy Prog in this poll, it wasn't necessarily an easy decision.

I have no comment on why this is considered a "great debate." The poll results should show that this isn't the case.


Edited by progaardvark - October 21 2019 at 05:37
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote LakeGlade12 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 02:51
Went for Psychedelic Rock/Space Rock as that was very clearly their sound from the debut to Signify (4 albums plus V34). Stupid Dream and Lightbulb Sun are more crossover-prog, but I always get a more psychedelic sound than heavy prog or prog metal. The next three albums are clear-cut heavy prog, but The Incident has a lot of call-backs to their older sound (Time flies, Flicker, I drive the hearse etc.) along with heavy prog.

Overall, when I add it all up in my head they are more Psychedelic than Heavy Prog, but it all comes down to how you interprit Stupid Dream, Lightbulb Sun and The Incident.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2019 at 02:02
all good, except neo-prog and post-rock.
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