1980s' other Progressive Rock than Neo-Prog? |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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To put it in short, I'd say we need to keep the PA rules because if we don't, then the strongest ones decide everything, including the means which are used.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Sean Trane
Special Collaborator Prog Folk Joined: April 29 2004 Location: Heart of Europe Status: Offline Points: 19705 |
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I've always disliked the Xover prog name - I would've much prefered Progresive pop (which RYM uses in their descriptions) TBH,
even if I preferred TFF to almost any 80's pop bands (along with Talk
Talk), I still think it's too borderline to be included in PA, but the
later wouldn't be in if it wasn't for their last two albums that started
Post Rock. TFF and TT (or T2, but that would be confusing with the 70's trio) were miles above similar bands like Duran2, FoS, The2, Visage, 80's Ultravox and 80's Split Enz (though both these bands were much more interesting in their earlier albums),
Human League, etc; and all of these electro-pop that were exposed on
MTV, mire because of their sense of fashion than gpor their musical
talents.
No need to be more catholic than the sinister JP2 or more ayatollish than Khomeini (to list 80's arseholes). I never that it was a crime de lèse majesté to discuss (as in comparing) un-prog stuff in the prog chambers of our palace. Yesssss, we know PP thinks of himself as facetious (we don't ), but I also list non-prog stuff in my lists - especially when it comes to those dreadful 80's. Hell I even listed Violent Femmes' debut in my list. We all accept that Dire Straits is listed in those prog lists, despite DS not being in our DB. So why take offense in TFF? .
Edited by Sean Trane - November 01 2023 at 03:54 |
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let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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The Roches are not included in PA. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26359 |
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^ good comments. I feel that the 80's was a wasteland for 'true prog' (or more traditional prog bands). The late seventies punk/new wave purge mostly saw to that until bands and artists started to take power back from the record companies and record producers that wanted to control everything. The 90's was much better from our genre's point of view. As someone who lived through it (the 80's) I concentrated on artists that had something about them and certainly Tears For Fears stood out. There are many others as well of course but I believe it's way to subjective to make a distinction between the styles of so many diverse bands (ie some are prog or not). I looked through Paul's posts and certainly didn't seem too much that is out of place. His knowledge is sound and he has now dropped the whole everything after 1979 is neo prog thing thankfully!
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: Vancouver, BC Status: Offline Points: 33086 |
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^ I suggest not getting too hung up about it. I've thought about revising that, which was written back in 2005, for a long time. It was agreed on before 2010 that not every band/artist mentioned in the Prog forums need be included in PA, but that the emphasis should be on ones that have been deemed Prog by the site. I think most recognise that being included in PA does not make an act or album Prog, and not being in PA does not mean that it is not. It is there partially to make things simpler for moderators because a lot of stuff IS put in the wrong forum, and then moving lots of topics is a hassle, and we don't always have time to check or know if something is Prog, or argue the case. While it may have been determined that common sense is not as common as once thought, nor as sensible perhaps, the general idea of to trying to use it is advisable, and a little compromise can make people generally happier.
That said, you can set the rules of your threads as you wish (within the general expectations of what is proper at PA), and I will deal with ones often that break certain rules (abuse), but one only has much control over ones own topics often or the people who post there. A thread you start does not belong to you and I think it helps to focus on that which you appreciate more than that which you don't (hopefully one would not wish to come across as the complaining type, better to be easy-going methinks). One suggestion I might like to add to the rules is, in different words, "Try to not to get too anal about things, and most of all, have fun!" On a personal note, I tend to think of albums and songs as Prog more so than acts themselves per se as many acts will play a range of styles. Of course not being ale to tag albums is limitation of this site. Have you tried the Progressive Ears board? I just wonder if it might satisfy you more. And actually, I don't consider that Tears for Fears album to be Prog, but a kind of art pop-rock. Maybe I'll present a list here of albums that I deem Progressive Rock enough after I have done the 80-84 part of my topic series. There will be Swans' Children of God, various Art Zoyd and Cardiacs albums, various RIO, Codona, Thinking Plague, This Heat etc. etc. I love the 80s, especially if one is not limited to Prog, but then I really love every decade from the 60s up and so none are weak for me. I think I become more of a "glass half full" kind of guy the older I get. |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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The main point here concerning Tears for Fears is that they are not included in PA, and thus are not considered to be Prog by PA. So if to respect my OP, the band should not be listed, neither if to respect the PA rules for Progressive Music Lounges. Personally, I consider The Seeds of Love to be Pop-Rock, and so do Paul, I think. Edited by David_D - October 31 2023 at 18:51 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26359 |
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Tears For Fears were 'Art rock' but then so was Kate Bush. Both were equally important and both were a massive respite from so much dismal over produced 80's shyte from artists with zero talent.
If we dismiss Seeds Of Love as not being worthy of the tag 'prog' then we can equally dismiss The Sensual World IMO. The idea of 'crossover prog' is just a massive deceit imo. Basically a bunch of artists that we randomly like or don't like that didn't make commercial driven music. |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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No comments, Paul? |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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cstack3
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Compared to what, exactly? Did you listen to Fripp's guitar work in any of those clips?
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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David_D
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It doesn't look Prog to me, either. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
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I could mention a tracks "conspiracy" and a couple more. |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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cstack3
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I'm still on a Bob Fripp tear!
The album by the Roche sisters featured Bob Fripp and Tony Levin. Fripp's guitar work on this song is sublime. I find this music rarely acknowledged in prog land. Sorry, 1979, oh well! Edited by cstack3 - October 30 2023 at 01:13 |
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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Thank you very much for some good discussion here. Edited by David_D - October 29 2023 at 13:10 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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I wish, Paul, you had more respect for the OPs and for the strong feelings, I think not so few of us have for Progressive Rock as a genre, because at least for me, it is not easy to accept the way you act.
Edited by David_D - October 29 2023 at 13:11 |
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26359 |
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The Police were actually close to becoming a prog band in my eyes when they stopped (perhaps thats the reason!). Andy Summers (ex Soft Machine) and Stewart Copeland (ex Curved Air) had already touched on the genre outside of this band. Shame they didn't continue although Sting did a crossover jazz fusion album Bring On The Night which is quite fun. IMO!
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cstack3
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Thanks for reminding me of their second album, "Bewitched!" |
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verslibre
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Reissues are again required for both Fripp/Summers albums!
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cstack3
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As long as I'm on a Bob-Fripp-1980's tear, let's not forget his impressive work with Andy Summers!!
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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cstack3
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Did anyone mention Bob Fripp's amazing League of Gentlemen?
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David_D
Forum Senior Member Joined: October 26 2010 Location: Copenhagen Status: Offline Points: 13530 |
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But when talking about Prog Metal in the late-'80s, I finally today, after a year and many listenings, got almost into Voivod's Nothingface, which I'm not so little happy about, as I've had my doubts but have been much up to being able to do it.
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quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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