Music vs lyrics

The Dark Elf wrote: It's quite simple: banal lyrics can and often do sink songs; however, clever and intelligent lyrics never hurt a song . On the contrary, they only improve it.

Very well put-out of four of my favorite albums(The Moon and Antarctica, Quadrophenia, The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway and Arthur: Or the Decline and Fall of the British Empire), lyrics play a vital, almost dominant role in the appeal, and on the one that doesn't require amazing lyrics to be great(Black Sabbath's debut), the lyrics are well-done enough to not distract from the album's main appeal, which is the haunting musicianship. 

Edited by 40footwolf - August 20 2011 at 00:10

wjohnd wrote: I wish that was true for  me. Really bad lyrics can put me off a song - at least half of Dream Theater's output falls down this hole.

Well, I don't even need to get to the lyrics with regard to that example, the singing will do the job ( I hope you get my point).   Anyway, some of my favourite music from my formative years has terrible lyrics so I have subconsciously got into a frame of mind where I only start to care about the lyrics if either a)I am specifically told that the lyrics are great like Kinks's British Empire album or b)I hear something striking in the words that makes me want to appreciate it more deeply, like the lyrics of Script for a Jester's Tear. That is, I practically don't notice the words often times, as long as the sound of the words is phonetically acceptable, I am ok.

rogerthat wrote: Lyrics CAN improve my appreciation of a song but not take away from it (as in, poor lyrics).  And in both cases, the music must first be to my liking, lyrics only enhances this a little bit more.

For me it's a mood swing. I won't listen to King Crimson for about 3 years and suddenly something sparks it off....like seeing a period film or something of that nature. Then I find myself pulling out the Crimso collection and just having a solid connection with their music for about 2 months straight. I need to have some outside force to give me the inspiration to once again enjoy those lyrical concepts from Pete Sinfield. I bounce around too much. I will spend a entire week listening to John Coltrane and the following week it might be Ange. Sometimes I listen to French bands for example....because I do not understand the language and that is refreshing. I become painfully annoyed hearing the pronounced words of English that tell a fantasy story. Popol Vuh are like medicine for weary and sour characters like me. They are a band that help me to escape the craft. I struggle with lyrics, but I can't live without them. It depends on your mind set.  

I agree with all that, though a song can be very simple lyrically and still have sincerity and meaning

In my opinion, a song becomes truly powerful when the meaning of its lyrics is reflected in the music in some way (or vice versa). And I am not simply talking about sadness/minor key and happiness/major key relationship here. It seems to be especially true for concept albums where the band tells a story (lyrics) and paints a world to contribute to it (music). Listen to PT's Voyage 34 and you'll see how this combination almost makes you feel what the main character is going through. So lyrics are very important, and if they are silly or without any deeper meaning to it, it can ruin the song for me.   

Given that lyrics and the voice are two different things, I feel that both can play a significant role, though they aren't necessarily needed. Albums like Mastodon's "Crack the Skye," or even The Ocean's "Heliocentric" and "Anthropocentric," explore some fascinating concepts lyrically, and I feel that those sort of lyrics definitely add to the song.

As for vocals, something like "Heart Attack In a Lay By" by Porcupine Tree, towards the end when Steven has the two voices interlaced singing two different parts, absolutely beautiful.

Of course, there are some pretty over-the-top silly lyrics out there, but if they were changed to some awesome lyrics that explore an interesting concept, would that make the song better? Personally, I'd say it definitely enhances and plays a role in the song.


Edited by Platocrates - August 18 2011 at 00:25

The music is the more important. You could sing silly or non-sensical lyrics, but sing them Beautifully (Yes)

Alitare wrote: Slartibartfast wrote: thehallway wrote: Lyrics are for explaining what is too complex to get across with music alone..... I have to take the contrary position on that one.  Instrumental music can express things that are too complex for lyrics to convey. I'm going to have to take the middle-road stance. I agree with both. Whatever makes the music more emotionally impacting, I say. Be lyrically profound, be instrumentally touching, be subtle, be overtly impacting, be smart, be diverse, be sensitive and...whahableblee.

I understand Slarti's point but I think it's more to do with the whole "a picture says a thousand words" concept, only with sound! Music without words certainly has this quality..... but I don't think it's a matter of complexity...... more of beauty. 

For example, people have captured the great sense of terror and sadness of the holocaust with wordless music..... probably on a level that words themselves wouldn't be artistic enough to convey........ but if someone had the challenge of actually documenting the events of the holocaust through song (unlikely I know) then this would clearly only be achievable with lyrics. How could you tell someone all the details without using words?

Perhaps what I'm saying is that sometimes lyrics are the best way to get a message across, and that in these instances, it is usually because the artist wants to say something complex...... about an event or a person maybe, rather than a mere mood or an emotion.

But lets take it a step further: If you're Jon Anderson and you have lost your voice...... how could you express "Craving penetrations offer links with the self instructor's sharp and tender love, as we look to the air, a picture of distance..." with a guitar?! (I guess it makes so little sense that it wouldn't make much difference...... but you get my point).

Slartibartfast wrote: thehallway wrote: Lyrics are for explaining what is too complex to get across with music alone..... I have to take the contrary position on that one.  Instrumental music can express things that are too complex for lyrics to convey.