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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
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Topic: The anti-fanboys Posted: October 23 2009 at 20:16 |
harmonium.ro wrote:
Dude, relax, he was talking about those who come here only to leave low ratings in order to manipulate the charts.
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Well, sorry if that's the case, vbut heard those kind of complains against people that rate an album low.
Last month a guy sent me an aggressive PM when I rated the last Porcupine Tree album with two stars (another one I bought without listening a second, just pre-ordered it because of the band), you can't imagine how the fanboy attacked me, because he said he cried each time he heard the album.
I laughed when I went to his review permalink, he had rated the album with 5 stars without review. 
But I agree hateboys are as bad as fanboys.
And people who manipulate a rating, need to get a life. 
Iván
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harmonium.ro
Special Collaborator
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Joined: August 18 2008
Location: Anna Calvi
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Points: 22989
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Posted: October 23 2009 at 18:04 |
Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:
floydispink wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
I find it ironic that those people spend hard earned money on albums just to give them a poor review
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They'll probably just download an album I think, or they might even review/rate an album only knowing one or two songs from it. |
I believe this is unfair and reveals lack of knowledge of Prog.
Most of us bought a great number of ou albums when there was no Internet or downloads, we heard the name of the band and bought them without listening, the day it was released.
This is how I got albums such as:
- Love Beach
- ABACAB
- A La Carte
- Big Generator
- Erc
In other words, albums that I would had never bought if I had the slightest idea what music was inside.
Even bought OVO without listening,only because Peter Gabroiel's name in the cover, without having even listened it, and I hate it from start to end, unlike all the rest of the Gabriel albums.
Now, we buy albums because of the REVIEWS, and sometimes we miss it, because tastes are different.
When you have 20, 30 or 100 albums, it's easy to choose, but when you have more than 1,000 or 3,000 albums, you buy almost aything you know something about, because there's not so much to choose when you have all your wishlist.
I know most of the reviewers and Collaborators, and they don't download for what I know, much less will dare to review an album without having heard it several times COMPLETE.
This is offensive IMO, I rate an album using 1 tp 5 stars, depending in the honest opinion about the music, so yes it's fair to give a poor rating to an album you paid for if you believe it's bad.
Iván |
Dude, relax, he was talking about those who come here only to leave low ratings in order to manipulate the charts.
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Alberto Muńoz
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 26 2006
Location: Mexico
Status: Offline
Points: 3577
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Posted: October 23 2009 at 17:58 |
To write reviews is an art.
You have to be well know in writing in propper manner and not the usual arguments like: "This album is the best" and " a Truly masterpiece", you can use those in the forum but if you use that in a review you have to enlight the reader why is rate a masterpiece for you that album or song.
I try in my reviews to give a general view of the album and a little history of the band an a certain point in the making of the album in review, then i move on to the songs, i always think that the review should tackle all the songs, and drop in between your personal objetive opinion about.
You should have an general argument to review the albums and prove on the whole review, it's not about describing the songs and saying yea or nay, you have to support your opinion with facts or with the background research that you did before sits to write a review.
And finally end your review with a postlude comment.
My two mexican devaluated pesos.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
Status: Offline
Points: 19557
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Posted: October 23 2009 at 15:31 |
floydispink wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
I find it ironic that those people spend hard earned money on albums just to give them a poor review
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They'll probably just download an album I think, or they might even review/rate an album only knowing one or two songs from it. |
I believe this is unfair and reveals lack of knowledge of Prog.
Most of us bought a great number of ou albums when there was no Internet or downloads, we heard the name of the band and bought them without listening, the day it was released.
This is how I got albums such as:
- Love Beach
- ABACAB
- A La Carte
- Big Generator
- Erc
In other words, albums that I would had never bought if I had the slightest idea what music was inside.
Even bought OVO without listening,only because Peter Gabroiel's name in the cover, without having even listened it, and I hate it from start to end, unlike all the rest of the Gabriel albums.
Now, we buy albums because of the REVIEWS, and sometimes we miss it, because tastes are different.
When you have 20, 30 or 100 albums, it's easy to choose, but when you have more than 1,000 or 3,000 albums, you buy almost aything you know something about, because there's not so much to choose when you have all your wishlist.
I know most of the reviewers and Collaborators, and they don't download for what I know, much less will dare to review an album without having heard it several times COMPLETE.
This is offensive IMO, I rate an album using 1 tp 5 stars, depending in the honest opinion about the music, so yes it's fair to give a poor rating to an album you paid for if you believe it's bad.
Iván
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Eetu Pellonpaa
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Joined: June 17 2005
Location: Finland
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Posted: October 23 2009 at 15:11 |
Some trolls may spam a discography with one star ratings for various reasons and objectives, but trolls can be either ignored or dealt with admins. I believe a critic opinion with arguments should always be allowed though.
kingfriso wrote:
floydispink wrote:
King By-Tor wrote:
I find it ironic that those people spend hard earned money on albums just to give them a poor review
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They'll probably just download an album I think, or they might even review/rate an album only knowing one or two songs from it. |
I don't think that a downloaded album gets a fair chance. If you don't have the cd (or in my case vinyl) it's less of a thrill from the beginning. What about the artwork, the complete concept of music, art and lyrics? Furthermore mp3 might sound less good and mp3players with headphones don't provide the space music (or sound in general) needs to develop. But that's another story... |
Also, vinyls can be punished in more imaginative ways, if they are terrible and contain no money value. For example adding some of them along shoes to a wedding decorations tied behind the limousine teaches those suckers to not pollute the aural space anymore with their no good art rock.
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Green Shield Stamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 933
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Posted: September 24 2009 at 14:53 |
Thanks for clearing that one up for me.
Mind you, it's pretty difficult to present fully objective views when discussing music - the appreciation of which is naturally highly subjective.
But I get your point. There is a clear difference between appreciation and idol worship.
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Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
Site Admin
Joined: April 05 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
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Points: 38827
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Posted: September 23 2009 at 15:44 |
Oh, and about it having homosexual connotations, it's not uncommon for homosexual traits to come out in fanboys, I think. They might worship certain men (say Petrucci) so much that they queerly fantasize about the man. I certainly see self-professed fanboys playfully playing with homo-eroticism, but there's probably some truth behind statements such as "I want to get into such and such male musician's pants" from professed heterosexuals. I've never been a real fanboy, or a rent boy for that matter, so I don't know.
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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Logan
Forum & Site Admin Group
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Joined: April 05 2006
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Posted: September 23 2009 at 15:32 |
It commonly is pejoratively used, and often humorously, and commonly refers to young males in their teen and twenties who show almost fanatical obsessiveness about something and are extremely biassed. It definitely has connotation of immaturity, and so it could be used for a male of any age who shows immaturity when it comes to the object of his "devotion". Here an example of fanboyism: "Band x is the best band ever!" They commonly mistake subjective truth for objective truth. But as I said, it's also used in a humorous way. In the past, I have described as a Magma fanboy, and wouldn't have minded others saying the same as I could go pretty overboard. There are many fanboys and fangirls of all ages.
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Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Negoba
Prog Reviewer
Joined: July 24 2008
Location: Big Muddy
Status: Offline
Points: 5210
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Posted: September 23 2009 at 15:32 |
Green Shield Stamp wrote:
Can someone explain for me what is meant by the term fanboy? It is obviously pejorative - but why fanboy and not fanman? Does it carry connotations of immaturity? Is being a fan negative? Does it carry slight homosexual connotations?
I see the term used a lot in Prog Archives and often wonder what is meant by it.
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Referring to falling from simple fandom to idol worship and lost of objectivity. And yes connotations of immaturity and mild sexual infatuation. (Whether its homosexual depends of course. Me, I'm saving myself....for myself.)
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You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Green Shield Stamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 17 2009
Location: Telford, UK
Status: Offline
Points: 933
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Posted: September 23 2009 at 15:04 |
Can someone explain for me what is meant by the term fanboy? It is obviously pejorative - but why fanboy and not fanman? Does it carry connotations of immaturity? Is being a fan negative? Does it carry slight homosexual connotations?
I see the term used a lot in Prog Archives and often wonder what is meant by it.
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Haiku
Writing a poem
With seventeen syllables
Is very diffic....
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infandous
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 23 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2447
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Posted: September 23 2009 at 14:03 |
Raff wrote:
Mr ProgFreak wrote:
^ Different people use different rating scales ... and even in reviews people use adjectives like "good", "great" or "average" with different meanings. One person might call an album "good" and it's a recommendation, while another person might use the word "good" as a euphemism for "nice try, but not quite".
I'll reiterate my point: Ratings, reviews, tags ... whether they mean something to you depends mostly on whether you know the person who submitted them. And, by extension, the more ratings are submitted for any item, the more likely will the resulting average be useful, since the different strategies that people use will "even out".
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That is true, but review sites do not always have a faithful readership. Internet surfing is not always about visiting the same site over and over again (though it may be for the likes of us), but often about visiting sites occasionally just in order to find a particular piece of information. Personally, though I visit a couple of review sites quite regularly, I have not really had the opportunity to get acquainted with the different reviewers and their individual styles - among other factors, those sites don't work like PA, where each and every reviewer has a personal page.
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Wait, you mean there are other sites on the internet besides Progarchives? Why would anyone have any desire to visit them?   I try to point out negatives about even my most favorite albums (try to see it from other perspectives.......like Pawn Hearts, which is a 5 star album for me, I can still admit that Hammill's voice is an acquired taste and that some may be immediately turned off by it). I also try to point out positives about even my least favorite albums (things like good production quality, or that the musicians are obviously very skilled, or things along those lines). I actually have the most difficulty with negative reviews because if I don't like an album at all, I'm not likely to listen to it enough times to get to know it well. I give every album at least 2 or 3 listens, usually more if there is anything about it I like. But that often is not enough to give an informative detailed review about. My early progarchives reviews make me cringe, as they are not informative, very short, and really offer very little insight to the average listener. I've tried to improve that and as a result, I very rarely write reviews anymore  Overall though, I agree with the balanced notion. Be informative, give your opinion, and leave the rest up to the reader.
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Ivan_Melgar_M
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Joined: April 27 2004
Location: Peru
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Points: 19557
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Posted: September 16 2009 at 16:05 |
4.- Review however you want if you believe it's honest, correct, respectful and informative.
Iván
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Marty McFly
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Posted: September 16 2009 at 13:06 |
Unfortunately, there are no rules of that review should be 500+ words (the more, the better I think, but when there's nothing to say, should I say less, or not say anything at all ?), or obey law that you write a review to help others, not for yourself (but even this can't be enforced).
Paulo has unique skill. He made all these posts in this thread to few lines. Of course, I think that it's your opinion, not taken from others, but it looks nice and ironically, to have this in one short post. This is exception, sometimes a lot of words can be worse, so less is more saying goes a long way. Raff, my clappie is frozen before he can clapped. He doesn't move. Of course, this can be caused by animated objects turned off, but what if he's not supposed, or even not allowed to clap ? What in this case ? ;-)
To summarize these words in my way, a people here and their opinions can be divided to few groups: 1)rate objectively, with little, or no own feelings 2)rate 1/2 from each 3)rate how you feel this album, because others will know what's bad about it from your point of view.
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There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless," -Andyman1125 on Lulu  Even my
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pmendes
Forum Newbie
Joined: August 30 2009
Location: PORTUGAL
Status: Offline
Points: 25
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Posted: September 16 2009 at 11:26 |
Raff wrote:
pmendes wrote:
Although I haven't done a review and don't consider myself that qualified to do it , I believe (IMHO) a good review should be a balance between personal taste and objective appreciation of the album quality. In fact objective appreciation should probably be the most important factor, because a review is made for others to read and it's probably easy to recognize quality even if it's not your cup of tea... But if one is reading reviews to decide on getting an album or not, I would say the best review would be to listen to it if you can (easier today with the Internet ). Or at least to follow a reviewer you trust...
Cheers, Paulo
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Such words of wisdom deserve a clappie , and a very warm welcome to PA! This is exactly how I see the 'art' of reviewing. However, I believe you are being too modest (though I believe humility is a very good thing) - most of the people who review albums, including the so-called 'professionals', are not exactly 'qualified', if not by being music lovers. I know I am not - I do like to write, and I write reasonably well, but I am not a musician, and my approach to music is impressionistic rather than technical. So, I think you should give it a try - you might become one of the best reviewers around !
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Hi, thanks very much, I shall give it a thought  ! Regards, Paulo
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NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH
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Raff
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Posted: September 16 2009 at 06:43 |
pmendes wrote:
Although I haven't done a review and don't consider myself that qualified to do it , I believe (IMHO) a good review should be a balance between personal taste and objective appreciation of the album quality. In fact objective appreciation should probably be the most important factor, because a review is made for others to read and it's probably easy to recognize quality even if it's not your cup of tea... But if one is reading reviews to decide on getting an album or not, I would say the best review would be to listen to it if you can (easier today with the Internet ). Or at least to follow a reviewer you trust...
Cheers, Paulo
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Such words of wisdom deserve a clappie  , and a very warm welcome to PA! This is exactly how I see the 'art' of reviewing. However, I believe you are being too modest (though I believe humility is a very good thing) - most of the people who review albums, including the so-called 'professionals', are not exactly 'qualified', if not by being music lovers. I know I am not - I do like to write, and I write reasonably well, but I am not a musician, and my approach to music is impressionistic rather than technical. So, I think you should give it a try - you might become one of the best reviewers around  !
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pmendes
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Joined: August 30 2009
Location: PORTUGAL
Status: Offline
Points: 25
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Posted: September 16 2009 at 05:42 |
Although I haven't done a review and don't consider myself that qualified to do it  , I believe (IMHO) a good review should be a balance between personal taste and objective appreciation of the album quality. In fact objective appreciation should probably be the most important factor, because a review is made for others to read and it's probably easy to recognize quality even if it's not your cup of tea... But if one is reading reviews to decide on getting an album or not, I would say the best review would be to listen to it if you can (easier today with the Internet  ). Or at least to follow a reviewer you trust... Cheers, Paulo
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NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH
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SonicDeath10
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Joined: November 06 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 282
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Posted: September 15 2009 at 21:25 |
He thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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"Good evening hippies." Bobby Boy
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Mr ProgFreak
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Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Posted: September 15 2009 at 16:38 |
^ thanks, but I know that there will never be a scale (a mapping between ratings and adjectives like "average", "good", "great" etc.) that *everyone* is happy with.  BTW: Even people who usually prefer reviews could enjoy a ratings-centric website from time to time ...
Edited by Mr ProgFreak - September 15 2009 at 16:40
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Slartibartfast
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Posted: September 15 2009 at 16:32 |
By the way, my knock at ratings was not directed at you personally Mr. ProgFreak. I think you devised a pretty decent scale. And for those that prefer to do ratings and not reviews there's probably no better place to be when it comes to prog.
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Mr ProgFreak
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Joined: November 08 2008
Location: Sweden
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Posted: September 15 2009 at 15:49 |
^ generally I agree that the more ratings the better, but you can also get interesting content with few users as long as they're knowledgeable. Personally, I'll prefer a small group of experts over a large crowd of anonymous voters.
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