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rogerthat 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
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Points: 9869
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 Topic: Prog Pet Peeves
Posted: March 16 2011 at 12:35 |
 Steven Brodziak wrote:
Well, after reading all the whining going on and on and on about Labrie and DT, Spocks Beard etc. Could you do better? |
One doesn't have to be a musician, let alone a better musician, to express an opinion on the music of some musicians. This "can you do it" business that's tossed about on the net is quite ridiculous.
Steven Brodziak wrote:
I don't like every song made by ANY band, but I usually like something from just about EVERY band. |
You wouldn't possibly want to be called out on that, would you? Especially in the era of bedroom projects and bands.
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frippism
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 27 2010
Location: Tel Aviv
Status: Offline
Points: 4160
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Posted: March 16 2011 at 11:42 |
Well and Neo-Prog as well. Flame War!!! No. No offense meant. Well some but no over-generalization. I'll just keep rambling until this becomes less awkward.
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Earendil
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 17 2008
Location: Indiana, USA
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Points: 1584
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 22:16 |
One example on that same album is the tapping section in Supper's Ready. When I heard it on vinyl I was like "So that's what it really sounds like!!" You can hear each instrument more individually.
Edited by Eärendil - March 15 2011 at 22:18
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Steven Brodziak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2010
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 488
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 21:06 |
Well, after reading all the whining going on and on and on about Labrie and DT, Spocks Beard etc. Could you do better? DT was originaly 3 guys fresh out of school that knew how to play their instruments. They wanted to do something different. They succeeded in doing that. I don't like ALL DT. I do like Lebrie, I think he has a healthy voice. I don't think Morse is a fantastic vocalist but he IS passionate and knows how to write music. Check "The Wind and the Rain" from it's not too late. He fades out his own vocals. Brilliant.
Spocks Beard not progressive? Give me a break.
Al Stewart makes great usage of saxaphone, as did Gerry Rafferty. You could even throw Segar in their.
Also if you notice some crazy sax on Zappa's "Hot Rats" album. Love it.
I don't like every song made by ANY band, but I usually like something from just about EVERY band.
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Well, there it is. (Amadeus)
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Steven Brodziak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2010
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 488
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 20:45 |
Lark the Starless wrote:
Snow Dog wrote:
People who insist that you haven't heard it properly until you've heard it on vinyl. |
I REALLY dislike that.
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I don't say that, however there are just a couple items recorded in the early 70's that you do LOSE some of the recording when it was transfered to cd. Genesis's "Can-Utility & the Coastliners is the perfect example. The cd version does not carry that initial deep bass note. This is the only song I ever say "You must hear the vinyl."
There is even a disclaimer on those cd's stating that the source of recording may not fully reproduce etc etc.
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Well, there it is. (Amadeus)
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Steven Brodziak
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 24 2010
Location: usa
Status: Offline
Points: 488
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 20:34 |
popeyethecat wrote:
Bands who tick the superficial "prog" boxes, but lack substance. Also, people who are fooled by this - "This song is 10 minutes long! Wow! So proggy!" ¬¬ Especially when the song is only long because it repeats too many times!!
Oh, and people who think that all progressive artists took drugs in order to write their music. True of some, not of all...this sometimes makes people surprised when I say I don't do drugs, but like progressive rock. It makes sense to me!
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The music IS the drug. You're an addict.
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Well, there it is. (Amadeus)
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: June 04 2010
Location: Terria
Status: Offline
Points: 13298
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 20:20 |
Horizons wrote:
Albums with way too many songs. 14+
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I agree with this wholeheartedly except when all tracks run as one track (i.e. Hazards of Love, 17 tracks). But albums like Frederik Thorengal's Special Defects of Beyond Twilight's For the Love of Art and the Making with 20+ (or fricken 40+ with the latter) piss me off. Just combine the tracks, already! Especially with FtLoAatM, which is only 36 minutes long and has 43 tracks! WTF!
Edited by andyman1125 - March 15 2011 at 20:20
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tszirmay
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Joined: August 17 2006
Location: Canada
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Points: 6673
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 20:18 |
Well, as a veteran , I am totally tired of all the judgemental liberties of our "modern society". Yes, we are certainly entitled to our opinions but like my philosophy teacher once said "At the very least, get some facts straight!"  .
But "this is prog/not prog" is sickening to the nth degree..... First the term "progressive " was in response to 60s where rock n roll was 2 minutes and 30 seconds of music , most of the time and "long" was like 4 minutes!!!!! .
So the psychedelic crowd in SF area started these extended jams that made the rock... er... progress.
When anyone attacks a band as "retro" , my reaction is , after 50 years of rock music, nothing is really new or progressive, as evry combination possible has been recorded by someone , somewhere ...
I mean goth/electro/rap/indie/world is new  ?????? C,mon , already.
As John Collinge of Progression magazine once said" Prog? you will know it when you hear it! "
We all have different tastes (Thank Goodness or else it would be only Big Brother Records  ) , so , guys, give it a break. Pigeon holing is for the birds 
G'night
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I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Horizons
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Joined: January 20 2011
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Points: 16952
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 19:48 |
Horrific Album Art
Comparing an artist to Pink Floyd, wether the influences are obvious or nonexsistant.
Albums with way too many songs. 14+
Being uninteresting or turned off from a band becasue they're foreign.
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Andy Webb
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: June 04 2010
Location: Terria
Status: Offline
Points: 13298
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 19:37 |
frippism wrote:
Soaring guitars and lush keyboards. Whenever a band has that in their page I tend to stay away... |
...but.... but that's the single most important quality of symphonic rock!  
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frippism
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Posted: March 15 2011 at 00:29 |
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Soaring guitars and lush keyboards. Whenever a band has that in their page I tend to stay away...
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: March 12 2011 at 15:19 |
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The way some bands/artists go commercial from prog and are idealised for it and some do it and get written off as sell outs for the rest of their careers, and this bias never being anything to do with the music.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 19:43 |
HarbouringTheSoul wrote:
It's not true that Dream Theater have got no emotion or soul. I don't like James LaBrie, but that's not my reason for disliking. It's because I can't stand the way they try to mix of heavy and soft: Especially on newer albums, it's like someone took nu metal and slapped some 70s prog and power metal on it. I can't help but feel the ingredients aren't mixed properly (well, and I think that the nu metal part needs to be removed as quickly as possible). I also never liked melodic vocals over heavy, groove-oriented guitar, so that's another issue. DT are a capable band, but I can't stand most of the stuff they do. Has nothing to do with what you mentioned, and I think most people just don't really understand what they like about the band, so they invent reasons like that.
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Obviously, no band can objectively be said to have no emotion or soul. When people say that, they simply mean it's not all that soulful or not as soulful as they'd like but DT fans generally interpret it too literally.
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HarbouringTheSoul
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 21 2010
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Points: 1199
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 15:01 |
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It's not true that Dream Theater have got no emotion or soul. I don't like James LaBrie, but that's not my reason for disliking. It's because I can't stand the way they try to mix of heavy and soft: Especially on newer albums, it's like someone took nu metal and slapped some 70s prog and power metal on it. I can't help but feel the ingredients aren't mixed properly (well, and I think that the nu metal part needs to be removed as quickly as possible). I also never liked melodic vocals over heavy, groove-oriented guitar, so that's another issue. DT are a capable band, but I can't stand most of the stuff they do. Has nothing to do with what you mentioned, and I think most people just don't really understand what they like about the band, so they invent reasons like that.
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40footwolf
Forum Senior Member
Joined: March 08 2010
Status: Offline
Points: 651
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Posted: February 16 2011 at 14:27 |
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The first two are absolutely valid reasons to knock Dream Theater. I don't think anyone knocks Dream Theater for no reason at all.
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Heaven's made a cesspool of us all.
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peart_lee_lifeson
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 22 2009
Location: North Dakota
Status: Offline
Points: 305
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Posted: February 15 2011 at 23:19 |
People knocking Dream Theater and saying they've got no emotion or soul.
People knocking Dream Theater because they don't like Labrie.
People Knocking Dream Theater for no apparent reason at all.
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PROG ON!!!
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Billy Pilgrim
Forum Senior Member
Joined: September 28 2010
Location: Austin
Status: Offline
Points: 1505
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 03:05 |
boo boo wrote:
Billy Pilgrim wrote:
boo boo wrote:
I find it incredibly ironic, hypocritical even, that Dream Theater have the nerve to go on about rock cliches when what they do is itself very cliched.
Some may find me self contradicting, because I love Porcupine Tree. And they are a pretty accessible band who wear their influences on their sleeves despite the prog label. But they have a very immersive sound, and they do atmosphere incredibly well, which I find to be a more important quality in prog than technical perfection. |
I think it depends. Some bands like Porcupine Tree, or Godspeed, are all about the mood and the atmosphere, and than you have Rush and ELP who are all about technical perfection and raw talent.
I guess I'd rather have deep melodies and texture than the other though.
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I think you're oversimplifying a bit.
Rush and ELP used a lot of atmosphere in their music too.
And vice versa, Porcupine Tree and Godspeed are not technically incompetent musicians by any means. |
Of course not. I just meant generally. Examples would be instrumentals. While PT we have phsycedalic things, moody passages, like allot of the things off Signify. Rush had YYZ! And atmoshpere as well. Strangioto would be a good example on that. They actually referred to Strangioto as "an excercise in self indulgence" Trust me I could never say PT aren't talented with there instruments after I saw them live.
Edited by Billy Pilgrim - February 14 2011 at 03:05
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boo boo
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Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 02:47 |
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Also is that another subliminal stab at PT I sense there?
Edited by boo boo - February 14 2011 at 02:48
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boo boo
Forum Senior Member
Joined: June 28 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 905
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Posted: February 14 2011 at 02:41 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
I am so lost. |
Some people feel that prog refers solely to progressive rock, while progressive refers to any forward movement in music. So I guess that Earendil means that prog metal is progressive metal that moves towards the ideals of prog rock, while progressive metal is simply metal that progresses forward in some way.
However, this is kind of insane and makes discussions less clear, not more.
boo boo wrote:
I find it incredibly ironic, hypocritical even, that Dream Theater have the nerve to go on about rock cliches when what they do is itself very cliched. |
Here is a good pet peeve: any time somebody complains about rock cliches in song form. It's always insufferable and the actual song to go with it is usually terrible as well.
boo boo wrote:
Wtf was so goddamn tragic about 1990 that you never shut up about it? |
Walter is by far PA's most successful troll, that is what. He still gets people pissed off with his stupid gimmick but he also has somehow managed not to get banned yet.
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He's still NOWHERE near as bad as Alitare though. Oh hell f**king no.
Some of the most infuriating members on this forum for me aren't trolls at all though.
ExitTheLemming. 
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: February 13 2011 at 02:14 |
Henry Plainview wrote:
40footwolf wrote:
I am so lost. |
Some people feel that prog refers solely to progressive rock, while progressive refers to any forward movement in music. So I guess that Earendil means that prog metal is progressive metal that moves towards the ideals of prog rock, while progressive metal is simply metal that progresses forward in some way.
However, this is kind of insane and makes discussions less clear, not more.
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Well, this confusion persists because not all progressive music is deemed eligible for PA, and by implication to be called "prog". In fact,to be more specific, not even all PROGRESSIVE rock is deemed prog because it is supposed to be somehow affiliated to the prog scene or existing prog music in some sense. I understand the need to do this to make sense of the database but that is what creates this distinction. We cannot yet use progressive and prog interchangeably because prog simply refers to that progressive (hopefully!) rock that is generally called as such and not necessarily to rock based music that is progressive.
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