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Topic ClosedNon-Prog reviews on a Prog website?

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Queen By-Tor View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 15:45
Quite frankly, I've always thought they should be in HP, but I have no say in that matter.


And for the record (I'm starting to sound annoying even to myself now ) Secret Treaties is the ONLY PR record that I've ever given 5 stars to.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 15:47
politics Scott... politics... and back again to the Micky axiom (yes I have to have one as well damnit Angry)


what is prog to one.. is not prog to another... and well known groups not associated with prog historically have a HORRIBLE track record here for being recoginized for what they did do in the prog arena... thus like Deep Purple are inaccurately put here.  Tags and labels.. not judged on the music. Double standards.. should have been in the foreward of the collaborator handbook. It's the site's dirty secret hahhaha
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 15:47

I gave Led Zeppelin IV, 4 stars, and it is quite possibly my favorite album of all time.  My review explains why though, and I am quite happy with it.  I gave it a 10 on www.progfreak.com and I am quite happy with that as well.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 15:49
and that's the reason I haven't reviewed Iron Maiden's Piece Of Mind yet. 5 stars, IMO, but I can't give it 5 stars on this site, and writing a 4 star review for it would bring me physical pain
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 15:51
Originally posted by micky micky wrote:

politics Scott... politics... and back again to the Micky axiom (yes I have to have one as well damnit Angry)


what is prog to one.. is not prog to another... and well known groups not associated with prog historically have a HORRIBLE track record here for being recoginized for what they did do in the prog arena... thus like Deep Purple are inaccurately put here.  Tags and labels.. not judged on the music. Double standards.. should have been in the foreward of the collaborator handbook. It's the site's dirty secret hahhaha
 
Which I am well aware of, I just wanted to throw that out there for you.  And Jon Lord knows that I have absolutely no idea what is prog and what is not. 
 
 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 15:54
^^^ No one does, Scott, and that's proven by the amount of threads discussing that point. That's also why we have genre teams who have to come to diplomatic decisions about what is and what's not. No one person really can say what "prog" is, otherwise that one guy would be the one doing all the work for this site. Like Micky has said, it's all subjective, and that's half the fun of the genre. Plus is gives us all something to fight and draw blood about
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 15:59
Here are my PP and PR 5-star reviews:

5 stars DEEP PURPLE - Burn (read review)
5 stars DEEP PURPLE - Machine Head (read review)
5 stars DEEP PURPLE - Made In Japan (read review)
5 stars DEEP PURPLE - In Rock (read review)
5 stars BUSH, KATE - Hounds of Love (read review)
5 stars IRON MAIDEN - Brave New World (read review)
5 stars BUSH, KATE - Aerial (read review)
5 stars LED ZEPPELIN - Led Zeppelin IV (read review)
5 stars RAINBOW - Rising (read review)
5 stars BLUE OYSTER CULT - Tyranny And Mutation (read review)
5 stars BLUE OYSTER CULT - Secret Treaties (read review)
5 stars BLUE OYSTER CULT - Extraterrestrial Live (read review)
5 stars BLACK SABBATH - Heaven and Hell (read review)
5 stars BLACK SABBATH - Sabbath Bloody Sabbath (read review)

As you can see, most of them are albums that have more than a passing connection with prog, and that can be enjoyed by most prog fans. You'll hardly find me giving five stars to Queen's Hot Space (though I like to shake my behind to "Another One Bites the Dust"LOL, which is not on that album btw).

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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:00
oh god...   you sure can do that....Heart
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:01
^^^ and all of those albums deserve 5 stars depending on your definition of an essential prog album


(Clap on the Brave New World, btw)
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:16
So in answer to the original question, the answer is there is no answer.  You have to do what feels right to you, but make sure you back up whatever the rating is with what you have to say in your review, because I still feel that is the most important part of the rating.  The words behind it.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:18
well said Clap
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:20
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

So in answer to the original question, the answer is there is no answer.  You have to do what feels right to you, but make sure you back up whatever the rating is with what you have to say in your review, because I still feel that is the most important part of the rating.  The words behind it.


quoted for bad-ass in your face truthfulness
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:20
Originally posted by rushfan4 rushfan4 wrote:

So in answer to the original question, the answer is there is no answer.  You have to do what feels right to you, but make sure you back up whatever the rating is with what you have to say in your review, because I still feel that is the most important part of the rating.  The words behind it.


Exactly. Not to toot my own horn, but if you look at my reviews, the final paragraph will always (or almost always) contain a statement explaining why I gave the album the top rating, and if it really had any connection with prog. Personally (and this is valid for any review, not just PR ones), I think ratings without reviews are worthless, because - as Scott said - the words behind the rating are its most important part.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:21
Originally posted by Micky Micky wrote:


quoted for bad-ass in your face truthfulness


qfb-aiyt?

Edited by King By-Tor - November 01 2008 at 16:21
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micky View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:23
Originally posted by King By-Tor King By-Tor wrote:

Originally posted by Micky Micky wrote:


quoted for bad-ass in your face truthfulness


qfb-aiyt?


yeah I like that hahhaha
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Ricochet View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 16:36
I like my reviews to reflect upon the music, instead of contain a strict and perfect relation with the conventional rating principles here (that doesn't mean, on the other hand, that I'm neglijent regarding giving an appropriate rating). Regarding the P-R "eternal problem", I confess the "I can't give such album 5 stars on a website where 5 stars reflect the cream of Prog music" sounds logic, but in the same time, if an album from a band that is in the PR section of PA blows my socks off, so to say, I'll honestly give it 5 stars, because I have no reason to denigrate the music. On the other hand (hope my judgement can be understood...at least partially) I won't give 5 stars to the prog music in that PR-located band's albums if the prog music is not even 1/3 of what makes that album so bloody special. In other words, "great album, but not necessarily spectacular thanks to prog elements". The rating can be confusion-even controversial-by the above said, instead the review can easily explain it - and, ultimately, that's my belief. Reviews > rating.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 17:24
Nice conundrum here.

Say a prog album gets 3 stars and a prog-related one gets 3. Do they then contain the same amount of, well, prog?

If they're judged according to the same (prog) criteria, I guess they must. Which leads us to the conclusion that the prog-related album is prog. But the band remains in prog-related, because  the album might have been a one-off, or whatever.

And to top it off, we have undisputably non-prog albums in the prog sections. Quite a lot of these albums, in fact, in some cases making up up to 50% of  a band's discography. And the bands are often defining for the genre...

So finally we'd get prog music in the prog-related section, to accompany non-prog music in the prog section...

To avoid the above, my advice from page one stands - assume prog-related bands/albums are not prog (this is the official stance here, right?), and therefore don't judge them according to prog criteria.
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Easy Livin View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 18:13
We deliberately don't have rules or guidelines on this. Everyone should go with what they think is best. It's always a good one to discuss and debate though.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 18:36
Originally posted by Easy Livin Easy Livin wrote:

We deliberately don't have rules or guidelines on this. Everyone should go with what they think is best. It's always a good one to discuss and debate though.


this


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 01 2008 at 18:46
I used to have this problem at the begining. With bands such as Deep Purple, Led Zep and all the others of the like.
I think you should review it with the point of view you want, Prog or Metal or just general music. But explain this on the review, Eg: Machine Head 5 stars of Hard Rock not Prog.
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