this has been debated for decades. Miles Davis is wrongfully credited as the inventor, though i think most people on this board are aware that he popularized it with In A Silent Way and Bitches Brew. he also obviously made the biggest contribution to the genre, for if it werent for him, the genre wouldnt be as it is now.

If one does his research, one will find the earliest example of jazz-fusion in a song by Herbie Hancock called "Cantaloupe Island" (1964) in which he wrote a modal jazz song set to a funky beat.

he also releaed Fat Albert Rotunda (1969) which was heavily influenced by R&B with lots of jazz influence.

before Fat Albert, Gary Burton released an album called The Time Machine (1966) where he experimented with some rock rhythms, and the first true fusion album being Duster (1967) also by Burton. I have not heard TTM, but have heard some tracks from Duster, though it's hard for me to call it a true fusion album IMO, though there are moments for sure.

Back to Miles Davis, his album Miles in the Sky (1968) introduced electric piano, electric bass, and electric guitar, all precursors to jazz-rock, but the album is still mostly jazz in his mid-sixties hard bop/avant-garde style. Davis' drummer at the time, Tony Williams, is credited by Miles himself for exposing the trumpeter to popular funk and rock bands of the time, and recommending electric instruments and youth-inspired rock rhythms.

Frank Zappa and The Mothers of Invention's second album Absolutely Free (1967) features a couple of tracks (notably Invocation and Ritual Dance of the Young Pumpkin) featuring extended improvisation in a 'jazzy' rock context, definitely sounds like jazz-fusion.

Larry Coryell (who played with Burton in the late 60s) is also credited for being one of the originators of jazz-rock. The Free Spirits band is considered the first jazz-rock band, and his first solo album Lady Coryell (1968) has elements of jazz-rock.

You also had rock bands like Cream and The Grateful Dead experimenting with jazz  as early as 1966 or 1967. Also James Brown in the late 60s, mixing jazz harmonies and melodies with funky/soul rhythms.

another point i'd like to make is all this started happening either right before or right after John Coltrane died. i dont think i need to explain the importance of this, im sure others may do so anyway. it's almost like his death sparked this creative change in the music, whether the musicians realized it or not. maybe even he could have been an indirect inventor of jazz-rock, or at least one of the biggest influences on the early stages of the genre.

either way, ive listed the facts, now it is time for discussion. for me, it's hard to say who was the first. i want to say Davis, but i know he wasnt the first to think of it, if anything it was Tony Williams who then influenced Davis to do his thing. Burton has the recording dates to 'prove' he was the first. FZ was an early one too (forget Hot Rats ) always ahead of his time.

i'd love to hear others opinions on the subject. this could turn into quite a juicy discussion.

depends what is meant by JazzRock, IMO Tony Williams' Emergency (1969) is the first fully incorporated document of real jazz meets real rock









Edited by Atavachron - December 27 2009 at 01:47

I'd think Larry Coryell with his group The Free Spirits (formed in 66), and Gary Burton (Time Machine, 1966 and Jeremy Steig with Jeremy and the Satyrs (released 1968) are all noteworthy.  Miles Davis electric jazz  Miles in the Sky is also noteworthy, though I think of his first true one as In a Silent Way (maybe his first true Fusion album).

Check out this Sun Ra music from 1956 (from Supersonic Jazz):

Gene Simmons? He invented everything else y'know

darkshade wrote: by the way, why are so many people up this late? or early???

Excellent Sun Ra link from Logan there.  You have made a very good case there.  Yet another old artist I need to explore.  Know him by name but not by music.

I am up early, because I can't freakin' sleep, go figure.  I'm working on it, dang it.

Hey discussing music is much more important than sleep anyway.


Edited by Slartibartfast - December 27 2009 at 02:29

Slartibartfast wrote: darkshade wrote: by the way, why are so many people up this late? or early??? Excellent Sun Ra link from Logan there.  You have made a very good case there.  Yet another old artist I need to explore.  Know him by name but not by music.

he's also another guy who's discography is endless, one doenst know where to start

mrcozdude wrote: darkshade wrote: Synchestra wrote: Gene Simmons? He invented everything else y'know you mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpin%27_Gene_Simmons it didnt show anything. ....or was that the point?

the hyperlink doesnt work for some reason, but it's 'fixed'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpin%27_Gene_Simmons


Edited by darkshade - December 27 2009 at 02:33

mrcozdude wrote: Logan wrote: I'd think Larry Coryell with his group The Free Spirits (formed in 66), and Gary Burton (Time Machine, 1966 and Jeremy Steig with Jeremy and the Satyrs (released 1968) are all noteworthy.  Miles Davis electric jazz  Miles in the Sky is also noteworthy, though I think of his first true one as In a Silent Way (maybe his first true Fusion album). I was going to say In A Silent Way but in terms of tonality it doesnt doesn't differ much from Filles De Kilimanjaro.But that aside Miles in the sky is the better choice. I wouldn't consider Gene Simmon a fusion player but more Avant Jazz IMO

You can go back farther with Davis -- I really think Miles Davis' 1967 track, "Circle in the Round" deserves a mention (the start of his electric period).  I was looking for a clip to share.

mrcozdude wrote: darkshade wrote: mrcozdude wrote: darkshade wrote: Synchestra wrote: Gene Simmons? He invented everything else y'know you mean this guy? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpin%27_Gene_Simmons it didnt show anything. ....or was that the point? the hyperlink doesnt work for some reason, but it's 'fixed' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpin%27_Gene_Simmons Still doesn't http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumpin%27_Gene_Simmons For some reason that link works ^ and yours doesn't although their the same Probably just my computer sucking

yeah i dont know, same thing is happening to me, i cant edit that post anymore either. maybe it's too late at night. whatever it's extremely off-topic anyway (both Gene Simmons guys haha)