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Easy Money 
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10748
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 Posted: October 24 2018 at 09:57 |
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Let me help you out ompha.
These are facts:
Water freezes when it gets too cold.
Mexico is north of Brazil.
Animals need to eat food to survive.
These are opinions:
trunp is (bad or good) for the US.
I can (not trust or trust) trump. etc
Can you see the difference.
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6923
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 08:55 |
SteveG said, "No name calling from me, but certainly criticism. You expound so many pro Trumpian views but don't have a single idea of the view of the party that you're ranting against. Know your enemy and then we'll have a discussion. Get it?"
1. Democrats aren't my enemy. I only wish for democrats to head back towards the center. Then I'll vote of them. Perhaps I know no more about the democrat party than you surmise? Perhaps, I haven't posted my democrat party dissertation....yet?
2. Do you know what the Democrat Platform is? Please educate me. In your opinion, what does the democrat party advocate? Can you back your opinions with facts? For example, if you claim the Democrat Party is for "Mom and Pop" small businesses....How would you explain millions of Multi-National Corporation dollars flowing into democrat purses. Don't get me wrong. I posted a hypothetical example. I'm not claiming that is your position. My point? Tell me what the Democrat party platform is...Please?
CAN ANYBODY TELL ME... WHAT IS THE DEMOCRAT PLATFORM?
Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 24 2018 at 09:58
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 08:43 |
 omphaloskepsis wrote:
SteveG wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
SteveG wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
I'm amazed. 2 weeks before the elections everything seems to be falling into place for Trump. It's full blown satanic black magic in action.
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Very much so. The Dems don't have an anti-Trump plan to run for the mid terms and I would suspect the same for the 2020 elections. Trump very much has his mojo working and the fact that even Republicans like Cruz and Graham have totally embraced him only makes things tougher. Say what you want about the Republicans, they do know how to stick together. |
What is the Democrat platform? I don't see a coordinated national platform outside of "We Hate Trump". |
Well, perhaps it's time for you to stop watching your warped right wing media and try CNN for a change. You only get fed propaganda and then end up vomiting it back out.
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You criticize and name call me yet you didn't answer my question. What is the Democrat platform? I cut the cable 2 years ago. I don't watch Fake news CNN. I don't watch Fake Fox. The only time I use MSM is via YouTube so that I can see a speech. Like the speech I posted of Obama's. What was it? CBS?
I get all my news from personal research on the internet and from independent journalists on the internet. CNN and FOX read whatever they are handed. Talking points. Nothing but parrots and NPC's. I like journalists who go out into the field and investigate the stories. Do you really believe CNN? Do you? CNN is a joke. I could post video after video after video documenting a plethora of CNN Fake news stories. Don't get me wrong. I don't like FOX either. FOX never deals with the hard core issues. |
No name calling from me, but certainly criticism. You expound so many pro Trumpian views but don't have a single idea of the view of the party that you're ranting against. Know your enemy and then we'll have a discussion. Get it?
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6923
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 08:36 |
So you missed my point completely then. If you raise US taxes to the levels necessary to pay for the benefits on Sweden's scale, consumption woudl collapse, the economy would fold, jobs would be lost and the tax base reduced so you wouldn't have enough funds to pay for it in the long run. And the same would happen in Sweden and most of developed countries. [/QUOTE]
No I didn't miss you point. I just didn't address your point in a fashion satisfactory to you. Allow me to be more specific and to the point. I didn't go in to detail. 1. I agree with you totally. You couldn't be more right. 2. Then why did I bring up Sweden if I agreed with your point of view, even before you voiced it? I wanted some like you to point out the fallacy of Sweden's system superimposed upon the United States. 3. That said, Let's not throw Buddha out with the bath water. In my opinion America can incorporate a voucher system of schools and healthcare. Since Sweden instituted the voucher system on the local level, schools must compete for students. Thus the level of education has improved dramatically.
Fun Fact- China owns Volvo
For CNN fan SteveG.... https://money.cnn.com/2015/03/30/news/companies/volvo-new-factory-u-s-/index.html
Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 24 2018 at 09:54
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6923
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 08:11 |
[QUOTE=Easy Money]Ompha, you are the only person in this conversation who spouts hysterical opinions as if they were facts. I'm beginning to think that talking to you is pointless. Several of us have worked through points where we didn't agree, but we were able to maintain a certain adult like dignity while we discussed our differences. You, on the other hand, sound like someone who has been thoroughly brainwashed by your favorite media outlets to the point that you are incapable of any original thoughts.[/QUOTEP ________________________________________________________________________________
Easy Money, you are the only person in this conversation who spouts out hysterical accusations without even listing examples. How vague can you be Easy Money? Ompha claims opinions are facts. Wow, that's illuminating.
That said. It is my opinion that Sweden has an excellent economical system, education, and healthcare. It is my opinion that Sweden's has a porous border. It is a stat fact that Sweden has one of the highest rape rates in the world. The Swedish distribution of taxes is fact as reported by the Swedish government.
It's a fact that Trump hasn't started a war. It's a fact that Trump is attempting to denuclearize North Korea. It's my opinion that America's relationship with North Korea is the best in my lifetime. It's a fact that the Urban centers of New York City and L.A. had a better recovery than the Midwest and Rust belt. It's my opinion that one of the reasons Trump won in 2016 is because Midwest voters didn't participate in the Obama recovery. It my opinion that CNN and FOX new aren't worth my time. It's a fact that I can post video after video documenting CNN fake news stories. It's my opinion that far left supports mobs. It's a fact that I can post recent videos of Maxine Waters and Hillary calling for uncivility.
Please Easy Money, tell me where I masqueraded my opinion as fact and I will take it back immediately.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 24 2018 at 11:44
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 07:59 |
omphaloskepsis wrote:
IVNORD wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I'm for Immigration by merit and a social system similar to Sweden.
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If you study world economy you must know that they collect over 60% of personal income in taxes in Sweden (with the upper tax bracket over 80%). That's how they pay for their welfare state with free medicine, education, and myriads of other social programs. And their defense spending is only $5 billion. In contrast, the US population pay about 35% of personal income in taxes of which well over $600 billion allocated to the defense budget. So to implement the Scandinavian/Swedish model in the US and keep the current levels of spending, income tax should be increased by 30-35% (most likely more than that). Now imagine 70% of your income being deducted from your paycheck and your buying power decreasing significantly..... How would it impact the US economy? And what would happen to the world economy? The US consumes most of the over-production of the developed countries, Sweden in particular. What will happen to their welfare model if we stop buying their Volvo cars, Ikea furniture, etc. as we do today?
Sweden's socialism is a welfare state brought to you by American consumption. |
Perhaps you noticed that I didn't mention Sweden's tax system.
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So you missed my point completely then. If you raise US taxes to the levels necessary to pay for the benefits on Sweden's scale, consumption woudl collapse, the economy would fold, jobs would be lost and the tax base reduced so you wouldn't have enough funds to pay for it in the long run. And the same would happen in Sweden and most of developed countries.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10748
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 07:50 |
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Ompha, you are the only person in this conversation who spouts hysterical opinions as if they were facts. I'm beginning to think that talking to you is pointless.
Several of us have worked through points where we didn't agree, but we were able to maintain a certain adult like dignity while we discussed our differences.
You, on the other hand, sound like someone who has been thoroughly brainwashed by your favorite media outlets to the point that you are incapable of any original thoughts.
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6923
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 07:49 |
SteveG wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
SteveG wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
I'm amazed. 2 weeks before the elections everything seems to be falling into place for Trump. It's full blown satanic black magic in action.
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Very much so. The Dems don't have an anti-Trump plan to run for the mid terms and I would suspect the same for the 2020 elections. Trump very much has his mojo working and the fact that even Republicans like Cruz and Graham have totally embraced him only makes things tougher. Say what you want about the Republicans, they do know how to stick together. |
What is the Democrat platform? I don't see a coordinated national platform outside of "We Hate Trump". |
Well, perhaps it's time for you to stop watching your warped right wing media and try CNN for a change. You only get fed propaganda and then end up vomiting it back out.
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You criticize and name call me yet you didn't answer my question. What is the Democrat platform? I cut the cable 2 years ago. I don't watch Fake news CNN. I don't watch Fake Fox. The only time I use MSM is via YouTube so that I can see a speech. Like the speech I posted of Obama's. What was it? CBS?
I get all my news from personal research on the internet and from independent journalists on the internet. CNN and FOX read whatever they are handed. Talking points. Nothing but parrots and NPC's. I like journalists who go out into the field and investigate the stories. Do you really believe CNN? Do you? CNN is a joke. I could post video after video after video documenting a plethora of CNN Fake news stories. Don't get me wrong. I don't like FOX either. FOX never deals with the hard core issues.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 07:29 |
omphaloskepsis wrote:
SteveG wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
I'm amazed. 2 weeks before the elections everything seems to be falling into place for Trump. It's full blown satanic black magic in action.
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Very much so. The Dems don't have an anti-Trump plan to run for the mid terms and I would suspect the same for the 2020 elections. Trump very much has his mojo working and the fact that even Republicans like Cruz and Graham have totally embraced him only makes things tougher. Say what you want about the Republicans, they do know how to stick together. |
What is the Democrat platform? I don't see a coordinated national platform outside of "We Hate Trump". |
Well, perhaps it's time for you to stop watching your warped right wing media and try CNN for a change. You only get fed propaganda and then end up vomiting it back out.
Edited by SteveG - October 24 2018 at 07:30
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6923
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 07:23 |
SteveG wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
I'm amazed. 2 weeks before the elections everything seems to be falling into place for Trump. It's full blown satanic black magic in action.
|
Very much so. The Dems don't have an anti-Trump plan to run for the mid terms and I would suspect the same for the 2020 elections. Trump very much has his mojo working and the fact that even Republicans like Cruz and Graham have totally embraced him only makes things tougher. Say what you want about the Republicans, they do know how to stick together. |
What is the Democrat platform? I don't see a coordinated national platform outside of "We Hate Trump". Perhaps the Democrats will get their sh*te together, if they lose 2020? Perhaps the Democrat platform will migrate back towards center? The Dems seemed to have abandoned the middle class,"fly-over states". The Obama recovery was limited to large urban areas like California and New York. The rust belt and the Midwest hardly recovered at all.
The Far Left defends mega companies like Google, Amazon, and Facebook. I thought I'd never see the day! The Far Left used to be for Free Speech but now the Left applauds censorship of Free Speech. The Far Left supports mob violence. Trump hasn't started a war. To a peace freak like myself it seems the far left would prefer a democrat president who starts a large war to Trump. And that scares me. If the left would fight for Free Speech. If the left would fight against mega cooperation federal tax subsidies, censorship. If the left would fight for small business, the middle class and world peace....Then I'd vote Democrat.
Trump may lie... but ironically he keeps many of his promises. If Trump didn't keep his promises the Left wouldn't hate him so yet his base would turn against him.
Edited by omphaloskepsis - October 24 2018 at 07:35
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omphaloskepsis
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 19 2011
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 6923
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 07:12 |
IVNORD wrote:
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I'm for Immigration by merit and a social system similar to Sweden.
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If you study world economy you must know that they collect over 60% of personal income in taxes in Sweden (with the upper tax bracket over 80%). That's how they pay for their welfare state with free medicine, education, and myriads of other social programs. And their defense spending is only $5 billion. In contrast, the US population pay about 35% of personal income in taxes of which well over $600 billion allocated to the defense budget. So to implement the Scandinavian/Swedish model in the US and keep the current levels of spending, income tax should be increased by 30-35% (most likely more than that). Now imagine 70% of your income being deducted from your paycheck and your buying power decreasing significantly..... How would it impact the US economy? And what would happen to the world economy? The US consumes most of the over-production of the developed countries, Sweden in particular. What will happen to their welfare model if we stop buying their Volvo cars, Ikea furniture, etc. as we do today?
Sweden's socialism is a welfare state brought to you by American consumption. |
Perhaps you noticed that I didn't mention Sweden's tax system. I especially like Sweden economy and education. Sweden uses vouchers for education and medical service. And that begets competition. Better schools and cheaper medical bills. 27% of taxpayer money in Sweden goes to education and healthcare, whereas 5% go to the police and military, and 42% to social security. Parents receive up to 16 months of paid time of per baby. Parents receive child allowances. Depending on how long you worked and how much money you made you can begin collecting social security at age 61. There are illness, homeless, and other benefits.
Not all is well in Sweden. The huge influx of unskilled immigrants has put huge pressures on the Swedish housing and welfare services. Largely because of poor immigrants Sweden is the rape capital of the western world. Some claim it's the Swedish definition of rape, however it's obvious that "no-go-zones" are dangerous areas and rape in relatively common place compared to the rest of the world.
In my opinion Sweden's government opened it's borders while having an excellent education and welfare system. I already said that combination is a recipe for disaster.
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 11 2014
Location: Kyiv In Spirit
Status: Offline
Points: 20617
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 03:46 |
npjnpj wrote:
I'm amazed. 2 weeks before the elections everything seems to be falling into place for Trump. It's full blown satanic black magic in action.
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Very much so. The Dems don't have an anti-Trump plan to run for the mid terms and I would suspect the same for the 2020 elections. Trump very much has his mojo working and the fact that even Republicans like Cruz and Graham have totally embraced him only makes things tougher. Say what you want about the Republicans, they do know how to stick together.
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This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 03:32 |
npjnpj wrote:
I'm amazed. 2 weeks before the elections everything seems to be falling into place for Trump. It's full blown satanic black magic in action.
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Based on observing the Modi regime (he is the 'role model' for Trump and his role model in turn is Erdogan), it wouldn't surprise me at all to see Trump get out of this. I see the same whataboutery from Trump supporters that I see from those of Modi. And here too, the opposition is fighting along conventional arguments and failing miserably.
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npjnpj
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 05 2007
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 2720
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 02:47 |
I'm amazed. 2 weeks before the elections everything seems to be falling into place for Trump. It's full blown satanic black magic in action.
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65919
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Posted: October 24 2018 at 00:13 |
^ Well, SF, we're a bunch of commies, so, yeah.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 23 2018 at 23:26 |
Easy Money wrote:
I don't think you will find anyone who actually thinks illegal immigration is good, but what is bothersome is that we have a president who pretty much rode that one issue to the white house.
Will removing illegal immigrants fix all the problems in a country, of course not, will it even make a dent in things, maybe and maybe not.
Over playing this issue has worked well for trump because it plays on people's irrational fears and prejudices.
Sure, lets try to control immigration, but lets also try to control our irrational fears and our demagogues who play on those fears for their own gain. |
Could also be that Democrat tone deafness is playing into his hands. If he's overplaying it, just make it a non issue. Say you don't agree with anti Mexican slurs but that illegal immigration is indeed a problem. Next. I have a friend living in SF and he says even if he merely mentions that he actually had to go through the legal process to get in (and it's a long wait with a lottery and all) he is labelled anti immigration. Such rhetoric is not very helpful. It has been pointed out that Obama too was deporting many, many illegal immigrants anyway. Perhaps pointing out that Trump was manufacturing dystopia out of nothing than to sound horrified about everything he says would have been/would be more effective political strategy.
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin
Joined: August 11 2007
Location: Memphis
Status: Offline
Points: 10748
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Posted: October 23 2018 at 21:53 |
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I don't think you will find anyone who actually thinks illegal immigration is good, but what is bothersome is that we have a president who pretty much rode that one issue to the white house.
Will removing illegal immigrants fix all the problems in a country, of course not, will it even make a dent in things, maybe and maybe not.
Over playing this issue has worked well for trump because it plays on people's irrational fears and prejudices.
Sure, lets try to control immigration, but lets also try to control our irrational fears and our demagogues who play on those fears for their own gain.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer
Joined: September 03 2006
Location: .
Status: Offline
Points: 9869
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Posted: October 23 2018 at 21:09 |
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Argumenta about Sweden's tax system aside, I agree with the essential premise that a welfare state combined with porous borders would be a fiscal mess. Yes, there are other things US could do to balance the budget like downsizing its empire or taking the rich more. But the first responsibility of an elected govt is to provide services to citizens, not those who have crossed the border illegally. However, what services exactly can an illegal immigrant avail of? Or do they fraudulently obtain social security numbers?
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Atavachron
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: September 30 2006
Location: Pearland
Status: Offline
Points: 65919
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Posted: October 23 2018 at 20:29 |
^ Thank you.
It's like when people say we should 'tax the churches'. The result would be far fewer churches> an unchanged rate for taxpayers> and a revenue base that stays the same.
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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought." -- John F. Kennedy
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IVNORD
Forum Senior Member
Joined: December 13 2006
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 1191
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Posted: October 23 2018 at 20:21 |
omphaloskepsis wrote:
I'm for Immigration by merit and a social system similar to Sweden.
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If you study world economy you must know that they collect over 60% of personal income in taxes in Sweden (with the upper tax bracket over 80%). That's how they pay for their welfare state with free medicine, education, and myriads of other social programs. And their defense spending is only $5 billion. In contrast, the US population pay about 35% of personal income in taxes of which well over $600 billion allocated to the defense budget. So to implement the Scandinavian/Swedish model in the US and keep the current levels of spending, income tax should be increased by 30-35% (most likely more than that). Now imagine 70% of your income being deducted from your paycheck and your buying power decreasing significantly..... How would it impact the US economy? And what would happen to the world economy? The US consumes most of the over-production of the developed countries, Sweden in particular. What will happen to their welfare model if we stop buying their Volvo cars, Ikea furniture, etc. as we do today?
Sweden's socialism is a welfare state brought to you by American consumption.
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The American Politics Thread
