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Prog Songs Utilising Saxophone?
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The Dark Elf View Drop Down
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I do NOT look at ANY music, because of one instrument or another. SPECIALLY PROGRESSIVE, which is not about the instrument (definition sux on that one!), but the complete musical design and its beauty.

I find it sad, to think of one piece of music is this or that ... because of this or that ... 

It's not about the instrument ... it's about how it is integrated into the musical piece ... to be fair to the composer, you should not "see" or "hear" a saxophone ... you should hear a well done and put together piece of music!

But song folks want their gueetar solo ... I hope more folks like Frank put the guitar down and conduct the concert ... maybe it will show these people what music is and isn't.


While yes it's important that a piece of music is well written, it's simply plain silly and quite ignorant to completely discount the idea of using different instruments to paint pictures with different tonal colours. Nobody's saying that a song is better with or without a saxophone, but sometimes it's interesting to hear the different uses of it and it will help someone discover new songs.

I suppose you must think Maurice Ravel is a hack because he wrote a piece of music with only two melodies and decided that changing up the instrumentation with each repetition made enough variety for the piece to last around 15 minutes.

What you're saying is about as silly as saying the only thing that matters in film is the script. Forget about the camera work, wardrobe, setting, acting abilities, lighting, none of that matters! Of course, good film makers will use all the factors to help tell their story.

It's Mosh, pushing the same old tired psychobabble since 1967. Don't get him started or he'll start prattling on about his literary ancestors down to the 50th generation, or how music is about the "hits", or how he never got married because he gave it all up for his one true muse, poetry (that and women probably run from him like the plague the moment he lights up his hand-dipped bees-wax patchouli-scented psychedelic candles).

When he says "you should not "see" or "hear" a saxophone", he is trying to articulate the nonsense floating about in the cobwebbed corridors of his mind. Much music, and prog, like classical or jazz music, relies on the players both meshing together AND soloing at an elite level. Does he denigrate soloists like Yehudi Menuhin, Itzhak Perlman, Van Cliburn, Maria Joćo Pires, Pablo Casals or Segovia who were absolutely required to offer stunning instrumentality in a solo venture based on the composer's guidelines? What about Miles Daves or Wes Montgomery? Were they just supposed to play rhythm and not solo?

A dumb proposition, and one so repetitive I suggest you cut and paste a previous post rather than waste time typing out a new one.
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Well, that's why I specified that I wanted songs that used it in a meaningful way. I'm not just going to like a song because of the saxophone element if everything else is awful. I was simply curious about other bands which applied it meaningfully in some songs, that's all.
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Originally posted by SteveG SteveG wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man by KC. The first and best!

Nope. The band Family had saxophone too and they predated KC.
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If you want sax, check out a young new band called Trioscapes...a bass/drums/rocket-fueled demonic sax power trio, not unlike an all-instrumental Mars Volta..!
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Maxophone!!!
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King Crimson and Mel Collins have already been mentioned, and I guess they are already known by the OP, but just in case you haven't checked themo out, grab some of their live albums by the newest line-up, since they are adding some nice sax (or flutes) to songs that didn't originally have them.
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I do NOT look at ANY music, because of one instrument or another. SPECIALLY PROGRESSIVE, which is not about the instrument (definition sux on that one!), but the complete musical design and its beauty.

I find it sad, to think of one piece of music is this or that ... because of this or that ... 

It's not about the instrument ... it's about how it is integrated into the musical piece ... to be fair to the composer, you should not "see" or "hear" a saxophone ... you should hear a well done and put together piece of music!

But song folks want their gueetar solo ... I hope more folks like Frank put the guitar down and conduct the concert ... maybe it will show these people what music is and isn't.


While yes it's important that a piece of music is well written, it's simply plain silly and quite ignorant to completely discount the idea of using different instruments to paint pictures with different tonal colours. Nobody's saying that a song is better with or without a saxophone, but sometimes it's interesting to hear the different uses of it and it will help someone discover new songs.

I suppose you must think Maurice Ravel is a hack because he wrote a piece of music with only two melodies and decided that changing up the instrumentation with each repetition made enough variety for the piece to last around 15 minutes.

What you're saying is about as silly as saying the only thing that matters in film is the script. Forget about the camera work, wardrobe, setting, acting abilities, lighting, none of that matters! Of course, good film makers will use all the factors to help tell their story.


Actually, I believe I read some time that Ravel rather disliked (or hated) Bolero, since it was written only as an excercise. And to think that is mainly the reason he is remembered (at least by those of us who are not classical music freaks).
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Oh my!  Try Gong "You," featuring the amazing French saxophone player Didier Malherbe (Bloomdido Bad de Grass). 

He rips it wide open about 1:28 on this classic track!  
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Currently listening to The Mars Volta and Frances The Mute - that has sax on it, especially on Con Safo.
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Points: 331 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kempokid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 07 2018 at 05:17
The saxophone freakouts on Cassandra Gemini, especially the first movement, are incredibly cool
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Well, I'm now adding this to the list of bands I need to check more out from, they seem incredibly interesting
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Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

Originally posted by moshkito moshkito wrote:

Hi,

I do NOT look at ANY music, because of one instrument or another. SPECIALLY PROGRESSIVE, which is not about the instrument (definition sux on that one!), but the complete musical design and its beauty.

I find it sad, to think of one piece of music is this or that ... because of this or that ... 

It's not about the instrument ... it's about how it is integrated into the musical piece ... to be fair to the composer, you should not "see" or "hear" a saxophone ... you should hear a well done and put together piece of music!

But song folks want their gueetar solo ... I hope more folks like Frank put the guitar down and conduct the concert ... maybe it will show these people what music is and isn't.


While yes it's important that a piece of music is well written, it's simply plain silly and quite ignorant to completely discount the idea of using different instruments to paint pictures with different tonal colours. Nobody's saying that a song is better with or without a saxophone, but sometimes it's interesting to hear the different uses of it and it will help someone discover new songs.

I suppose you must think Maurice Ravel is a hack because he wrote a piece of music with only two melodies and decided that changing up the instrumentation with each repetition made enough variety for the piece to last around 15 minutes.

What you're saying is about as silly as saying the only thing that matters in film is the script. Forget about the camera work, wardrobe, setting, acting abilities, lighting, none of that matters! Of course, good film makers will use all the factors to help tell their story.

It's Mosh, pushing the same old tired psychobabble since 1967. Don't get him started or he'll start prattling on about his literary ancestors down to the 50th generation, or how music is about the "hits", or how he never got married because he gave it all up for his one true muse, poetry (that and women probably run from him like the plague the moment he lights up his hand-dipped bees-wax patchouli-scented psychedelic candles).

When he says "you should not "see" or "hear" a saxophone", he is trying to articulate the nonsense floating about in the cobwebbed corridors of his mind. Much music, and prog, like classical or jazz music, relies on the players both meshing together AND soloing at an elite level. Does he denigrate soloists like Yehudi Menuhin, Itzhak Perlman, Van Cliburn, Maria Joćo Pires, Pablo Casals or Segovia who were absolutely required to offer stunning instrumentality in a solo venture based on the composer's guidelines? What about Miles Daves or Wes Montgomery? Were they just supposed to play rhythm and not solo?

A dumb proposition, and one so repetitive I suggest you cut and paste a previous post rather than waste time typing out a new one.

Yes, usual rubbish. "It's not about the instrument " - kind of true but there are things you can do on some instruments that you can't do on others. Instruments have different textures, they're played differently, they sound different. Personally I love a bit of flute, it has a gentle beauty that something like a sax doesn't, but a sax is more appropriate for some music.
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I always liked the sax of the Russian band, Diversion Voice:
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I see all the usual suspects have been named - Collins and Mackay having contributed a lot to various bands. It was great to see Collins with KC recently doing material I never dreamed they'd do again. Also see Manzanera/801 in the mix, although Listen Now is a bit of a mixed bag IMHO.

Steve Wilson also uses (until Bone) Theo Travis frequently but sparingly.

Off the top of my head, for pure sax freakouts, let me throw out Bill Nelson's Red Noise as well as Quit Dreaming, Mr. Bungle, and of course, Oingo Boingo. A group that should have been using sax all along finally did: Major Parkinson's amazing Blackbox  (tuba too!). Perfect Being's Viera is a bit Floyd-ish in mood and the sax a great addition to their sound.






Edited by Clyde Crashcup - November 07 2018 at 08:55
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Ian Anderson used the saxophone in A Passion Play.
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this is one of my favorites, the sax appearing at 2:54 to 4:04, then 6:41 to fade out, just punctuated by a last emotional vocal part case where no precise ending could have had the same impact as the fade out



But don't just listen to the sax parts - it's how it fits in with the rest, which is one thing Mosh is right about 
This song gives me goosebumps every time
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Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

...
While yes it's important that a piece of music is well written, it's simply plain silly and quite ignorant to completely discount the idea of using different instruments to paint pictures with different tonal colours. Nobody's saying that a song is better with or without a saxophone, but sometimes it's interesting to hear the different uses of it and it will help someone discover new songs.

I think you are mis-interpreting what I said, and you tried to translate it ... kinda bad for my tastes. 

Of course it is interesting to see how a different instrument and what not is done, and you can even get  a few examples in Progressive Music ... try Camel doing a bunch of their stuff on flute instead because a musician was missing.

Again, we like the music, that has been around for hundreds of years, because it is pleasing in its totality, not because it had 1 violin, or 20 violins, or two cellos, or a saxophone. 

My main concern is that we end up looking for "solo's", and not something that is a part of the music with all the other instruments. Check out Mel Collins with KC ... it's not about his instrument at all, and he makes it clear in the past several years on tour with them ... what he adds to it, is very valuable and an important element to the music. I would say the same for Van der Graaf Generator, and you can almost compare that use of saxophone to Jan Garbarek, sometimes ... if it is separated from the rest of the music, you can't tell, because Jackson drives it almost as much as PH's voice does.

Originally posted by ForestFriend ForestFriend wrote:

...
I suppose you must think Maurice Ravel is a hack because he wrote a piece of music with only two melodies and decided that changing up the instrumentation with each repetition made enough variety for the piece to last around 15 minutes.
...

I would say that most listeners in a rock music bulletin board are more "hacks", than Ravel was with his BOLERO or other pieces of music. Why? They can only appreciate a rock music/rock'n'roll format for things and instrumental usage ... and then ask about a saxophone .... or guitar ... or keyboards ... 

Right ... so let's ask about that violin ... in Beethoven ... and I will state again ... when are you going to listen to the music as a whole instead of separated pieces that do not, usually, stand up as well as the whole piece?

Again, I do not listen for the "saxophone", or for the "guitar", or the this or that ... I listen to the whole piece of music, instead of concentrating on what is nowadays considered "solo" ... we can't even imagine a "complete" and "total" music experience. The art is dead ... long live the art!

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Me. Hem hem not an advert. ;-)

https://brotherhoodofthemachine.bandcamp.com/track/1-nocturnal-transmission
https://brotherhoodofthemachine.bandcamp.com/track/1-nocturnal-transmission

Came in a bit late to the conversation: have we done early Hawkwind and Van Der Graaf Generator yet ? 

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Originally posted by Davesax1965 Davesax1965 wrote:

Me. Hem hem not an advert. ;-)

https://brotherhoodofthemachine.bandcamp.com/track/1-nocturnal-transmission
https://brotherhoodofthemachine.bandcamp.com/track/1-nocturnal-transmission

Came in a bit late to the conversation: have we done early Hawkwind and Van Der Graaf Generator yet ? 

Nik Turner ... absolutely special, even in concert in the earlier days. 

He's quite a free stylist, but somehow he makes things work out really nice. I still listen to "Space Ritual", and his saxophone and flutes and what not ... have never bothered me, and I never even thought of it as a singular instrument/experience within the whole of the music. 

To me, that is the real secret, behind a piece of music that ends up being remembered for a long time!

LOVELY PIECE OF MUSIC ... TOTALLY LOVELY! It should have been used with that Blade Runner 2nd movie, that had the worst soundtrack EVER.


Edited by moshkito - November 08 2018 at 06:45
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