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Is Pink Floyd prog rock?

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Poll Question: Is Pink Floyd prog rock?
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Mortte View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 22:41
Have to say I am not anymore interested at all to talk is some band prog or not (so much discussed here). Pink Floyd has been one of my biggest faves soon 40 years, I don´t care in what genre they belong.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 22:53
I think these threads are so useless because nobody ever changes anyones minds. People believe what they believe and it’s just a never ending debate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enchant X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 22:57
Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I think these threads are so useless because nobody ever changes anyones minds. People believe what they believe and it’s just a never ending debate.
I see your point but hey its a topic on peoples minds and no matter what Pink Floyd is categorized as they will always been thought of as a legend of a band. There's no doubt in my mind Pink Floyd made great music no matter what its defined as. I certainly mean no disrespect and I would pay hundreds of dollars to see Pink Floyd live and will certainly buy any new material released by them .. I love Floyd.  Tongue this topic is far too hot to shut it all down , it's just too interesting to stop now. 

So long as we are all respectful for each others opinions I see no problem with it, I certainly respect each opinion given so far in this thread, it's really made me think Wink


Edited by Enchant X - April 24 2020 at 23:09
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote twosteves Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 23:26
it's hard to say--so  much of it is easy to listen to---not really challenging like a lot of good prog---but its fine with me if it is---
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom Ozric Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 23:28
Sorry, I can get a bit arrogant at times, but at the end of the day, no matter what Floyd is, they are legendary, with great music and mass-appeal. It’s interesting to how many different opinions there are out there on what is and what isn’t. How boring if we all agreed ??
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 23:46
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Sorry, I can get a bit arrogant at times, but at the end of the day, no matter what Floyd is, they are legendary, with great music and mass-appeal. It’s interesting to how many different opinions there are out there on what is and what isn’t. How boring if we all agreed ??

Mass appeal isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think some people just have to hate the most popular bands. There's people who don't like the Beatles also although I think some people just have to be different for the sake of being different. If they truly don't like PF or the Beatles fine but personally I don't see how anyone could think it's bad music even if you personally don't like them. When I was younger I was big into Led Zeppelin. Even though I'm not really much into them anymore I would never say they are bad but whatever.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mortte Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 24 2020 at 23:52
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

Sorry, I can get a bit arrogant at times, but at the end of the day, no matter what Floyd is, they are legendary, with great music and mass-appeal. It’s interesting to how many different opinions there are out there on what is and what isn’t. How boring if we all agreed ??

Mass appeal isn't necessarily a bad thing. I think some people just have to hate the most popular bands. There's people who don't like the Beatles also although I think some people just have to be different for the sake of being different. If they truly don't like PF or the Beatles fine but personally I don't see how anyone could think it's bad music even if you personally don't like them. When I was younger I was big into Led Zeppelin. Even though I'm not really much into them anymore I would never say they are bad but whatever.
Also I have wondered why somebodies seem to have need to tell year by year how they hate those bands. Here are bands I don´t like at all, but I don´t have need to go into threads where people who like them discuss about them to tell my opinions (at least over and over).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Frenetic Zetetic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 00:54
Congrats OP on making the perfect thread to keep this stale board busy, LOL Clap Cool.

For real, I'd consider Pink Floyd prog rock. Many will debate their earlier work as psych/space rock, but I'm firm in calling their masterpiece records progressive rock exemplified (and I don't even like DSoTM!).

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 02:00
The music of Pink Floyd is of course what it is. The real question then becomes what you think prog rock is. I've said that I have a rather broad definition, but I can elaborate on that by saying that I tend not to regard prog rock as a type of music, but as an attitude. This view is supported by the number of disparate sub-genres that are covered by the umbrella of prog rock on this site.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 04:33
Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:



I seriously think because I`m a drummer and percussionist my value of prog is based on what I`m challenged to play or emulate ... pink floyd is a cakewalk. King Crimson is a nightmare .. and Rush is a challenge but doable....just, but I really have to concentrate. 
 

For me it doesn't matter how difficult something is to play. I respect virtuosity but it's not a primary value in music. It's worthwhile because you can do something great that others cannot do, so use it to the music's advantage, and don't forget, the non-virtuosos can do great music, too, because that doesn't come out of virtuosity. (And there have always been virtuosos, "progression" has nothing to do with that.) The thing is, chances are most drummers can play what Nick Mason plays (I'm not a drummer myself so I can't tell), but could they have come up with it? Could they have had the taste and musicality?


Edited by Lewian - April 25 2020 at 04:34
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 05:09
Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:


The music of Pink Floyd is of course what it is. The real question then becomes what you think prog rock is. I've said that I have a rather broad definition, but I can elaborate on that by saying that I tend not to regard prog rock as a type of music, but as an attitude. This view is supported by the number of disparate sub-genres that are covered by the umbrella of prog rock on this site.


I might define or describe Prog in various ways, and please forgive any repetition. Prog means more than one thing to me, and I support this site having progressed from the more typical generic Prog, and having a much wider Prog umbrella, or Progum as I used to call it. Progressive rock (where progressive is an adjective) and Progressive Rock (noun, as a genre) are not necessarily equal, or synonymous, to me. Sometimes I can see progressive rock as just meaning experimental rock, some of it being more rock-related. One way I've looked at progressive rock is that it is music based on rock (or which draws on rock or has a rock component) that seeks to expand the rock lexicon. It's unconventional rock, or non-generic rock in a sense, that progresses rock from the conventions of the rock-genre -- it frees itself of rock-canonical expectations. It plays with form and structure, experiments, and brings in elements and techniques from other genres. Often it fuses genres, commonly by incorporating classical and jazz qualities to create a rock hybrid, but it can incorporate and draw on all styles of music, and create its own. It can progress so far from rock-standards that it ceases to seem like rock at all. It may turn things inside out and upside down. Often it draws on the experimentation and "far out" qualities of psychedelic bands (60s psych was an important influence).

Some Prog is more progressive in the sense of being forward-thinking, and experimental, than others. We even have the oxymoronical regressive Progressive Rock (gorp as I like to call, regressive, backwards prog). It can be an approach to trying to create something really unique and unconventional, and be adjectivally progressive, and some Prog just imitates common Prog genre conventions, sometimes of its subgenre. While in one sense I think of progressive rock as being unconventional, and freeing itself of stereotypes, some is stereotypically Prog (Prog generic). I tend to think of ELP as the quintessential Prog act, and I'm not big on ELP. Prog is not really a badge of humour for me, and the Prog term in and of itself often is not the best descriptor for the music (it often works better when other attributes are given and various styles are referenced). Much of what I like I think of as falling under the greater Prog umbrella.

Prog might be seen as trying to elevate rock music to a high art, to be taken as seriously as Art Music/Academic music, but a lot of it is not terribly intellectual. It can be fun, it can be and do so many things. Prog can be complex, but it can also be simple. I don't think Prog is just one thing, and what is Prog can be in the ear of the behearer (I expect that there are some commonalities to typical Prog that we all would mostly agree on). There is more conventional Prog and less or unconventional Prog. It overlaps with other genres.I like there being so much variety. I don't consider myself to be a Prog fan,it covers so much territory and there is a lot that I don't like, but I do appreciate progressive music (that need not be rock in the least). While I think of being unconventional as a hallmark of progressive rock, sometimes I think about the distinction between conventional prog and unconventional Prog. I commonly appreciate the quirky and unconventional, but I like much which is conventional (for its ilk) too.

Various "Prog purists" have complained about PA covering so much music, but I like the variety, and if the music covered only the rather vanilla music that they want here, I would not be nearly so interested. I have wanted this site to keep expanding those parameters. I understand about having some limits so that this doesn't become "All Music Archives", but prog can be so encompassing, and I wouldn't want this site to be really generic. To some it basically just refers to variations of Symphonic Prog. To some we traveled too far outside of the rock framework in certain cases, and to some the less mainstream, more exotic and unconventional music that is covered, panhead music as some would call it, is a turn-off, and purportedly this niche caused various people to leave the site in disgust. I would like to think that progressive admirers would be more open-minded, open-eared, liberal-minded, and essentially more progressive than that.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Enchant X Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 05:37
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:



I seriously think because I`m a drummer and percussionist my value of prog is based on what I`m challenged to play or emulate ... pink floyd is a cakewalk. King Crimson is a nightmare .. and Rush is a challenge but doable....just, but I really have to concentrate. 
 

For me it doesn't matter how difficult something is to play. I respect virtuosity but it's not a primary value in music. It's worthwhile because you can do something great that others cannot do, so use it to the music's advantage, and don't forget, the non-virtuosos can do great music, too, because that doesn't come out of virtuosity. (And there have always been virtuosos, "progression" has nothing to do with that.) The thing is, chances are most drummers can play what Nick Mason plays (I'm not a drummer myself so I can't tell), but could they have come up with it? Could they have had the taste and musicality?
Its the Ringo Starr theory while many people say he was a basic drummer would have the Beatles sounded like they did without him ? I see your point I know where you are coming from, agreed !  Tongue

Edited by Enchant X - April 25 2020 at 05:39
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 05:55
Originally posted by Tom Ozric Tom Ozric wrote:

^ Kinski always played the ‘perfect madman’......which he actually was.

Hi,

Are you suggesting that Damo Suzuki is not a charter member of the Magic Theater? Another perfect madman with a microphone, and not being filmed!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 06:04
Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:

Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:



I seriously think because I`m a drummer and percussionist my value of prog is based on what I`m challenged to play or emulate ... pink floyd is a cakewalk. King Crimson is a nightmare .. and Rush is a challenge but doable....just, but I really have to concentrate. 
 

For me it doesn't matter how difficult something is to play. I respect virtuosity but it's not a primary value in music. It's worthwhile because you can do something great that others cannot do, so use it to the music's advantage, and don't forget, the non-virtuosos can do great music, too, because that doesn't come out of virtuosity. (And there have always been virtuosos, "progression" has nothing to do with that.) The thing is, chances are most drummers can play what Nick Mason plays (I'm not a drummer myself so I can't tell), but could they have come up with it? Could they have had the taste and musicality?
Its the Ringo Starr theory while many people say he was a basic drummer would have the Beatles sounded like they did without him ? I see your point I know where you are coming from, agreed !  Tongue

Exactly, I thought of Ringo, too, when I wrote this.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote moshkito Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 06:32
Originally posted by Lewian Lewian wrote:

...
The thing is, chances are most drummers can play what Nick Mason plays (I'm not a drummer myself so I can't tell), but could they have come up with it? Could they have had the taste and musicality?

Hi,

The more music I hear these days, the more I think that no, most drummers can not do what Nick did for so many years, because he is not exactly a metronomic machine ... he is a FEEL and TOUCH drummer, the kind that there are not many around these days ... and his drumming was NEVER associated with the dreaded punching of the snare drum for your ears to know that was the 4th beat (or whichEVEr!!!) ... one of the worst things taught in drum school, for which you can use a metronome, and you don't EVER need a drummer to do it for you! ... it just shows the mentality and the intelligence of the music and the players I have a feeling!

How is it that in the early days of prog, so many folks could play against the beat and still come together so beautifully and we remember all the music? And continue to search for more music that was not as well known?

There are very few drummers, even over the years, that are strictly sensitive to the sound and the music, and their "punch" is not the snare, and neither is it to announce that the 4th beat is here!

One other example, is a band I kinda reviewed in email only, that wanted to fly and did some nice things, very progressive, but it had a rather sad drummer, that did not like the music going away from what he knew, and every 20 or 30 bars (pick a number) he would signal with a really hard snare hit that he wanted to go back to easy street, and his drumming on a developed piece of music went back to the same thing, even though it was very different than the opening ... all it says is that the guy is not listening to the music is afraid to try something he is not able to keep up with ... he had no "touch" at all ... and I would never suggest that this guy can not get better, but he needs to listen to a couple of different drummers to get better ideas of what needs/could to be done.

The question is ... is it progressive? And I will say yes because no one else has been able to "feel" the music so well and provide such a different touch that helped define PF so well (just like Ringo did for the Beatles). It ends up being that people (and mostly drummers) never even realized why Moonie and Bonzo were so different ... they think it was all just quick trix and not enough cereal!


Edited by moshkito - April 25 2020 at 06:36
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DarkTower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 08:18
Of course, Pink Floyd is prog, but not their whole discography is prog. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote I prophesy disaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 09:05
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

An ode to the panheads:

We are the panheads strong and free,
We use those pans when we need to pee.

Nearly two years ago, I created a poll asking which group were the proggiest, Genesis or The Residents:
 
 
The vote was overwhelmingly in favour of Genesis: 28 - 8
 
I didn't vote in that poll, but was surprised, perhaps even disappointed that the majority had a rather narrow view of what is "prog".
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jamesbaldwin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 09:47
Ok, I voted Yes but this is my opinion:


1) From 1967 to 1969, PF's music was psychedelic, proto-prog. Like the Beatles PF have made some tracks that can be considered prog, or avant-garde, but overall their first three albums, years 1967-69, don't have much of prog. - the first two albums by Family, 1968 and 1969 are more prog. 

- But ok, here in PA there is the Psych-Space-Rock prog and so... but psychedelia, in my opinion, is proto-prog.

2) In 1970, PF make a transformation, I am referring to Atom Heart Mother: the suite is definitely prog and also the song by Wright. There is almost nothing more of Psychedelic. Meddle only replicates the AHM formula with less imagination and creativity. PF therefore have a progressive turn, which however will never be total, because when they write songs, the structure of the songs will almost always remain simple and linear, only that with time the arrangements will become more abundant and the production sophisticated, to the point that the starting point for a song will be expanded until it becomes a suite. The Dark side of the Moon is a particular album, where the progressive part is mainly due to the production experiments which are the continuation of what both they and the Beatles did in the sixties.

However, from 1970 to 1977, that is until Animals, PF can be considered prog, and the most prog albums of all arrive late: Wish You Were Here and Animals, two albums made of long very dilated songs. 

3) The Wall and The final cut have almost nothing prog, at best they are prog-related, as well as those that follow.

Anyway, thanks to Pink Floyd for their capacity to evolve.




Edited by jamesbaldwin - April 25 2020 at 09:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Dark Elf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 09:53
Originally posted by TexasKing TexasKing wrote:

Originally posted by I prophesy disaster I prophesy disaster wrote:

It seems to me that the question of Pink Floyd's progginess is about Dark Side Of The Moon. But in spite of its commercial success, that album is prog, and I fail to see why people think otherwise.
 

DSOTM is not complex music in odd time changes. 

Oh, good lord. Even the most commercially accessible song on the album, "Money" has one of the weirdest time signatures for a prog song. There are very few 7/4-4/4 selections in the rock canon, plus for the era the innovative use of musique concrete as the basis for the intro beat and percussion was novel for listeners unaware of Edgar Varèse, Pierre Boulez or The Mothers. Which would account for 90% of rock fans at the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dougmcauliffe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 25 2020 at 12:40
Originally posted by Enchant X Enchant X wrote:

Originally posted by dougmcauliffe dougmcauliffe wrote:

I think these threads are so useless because nobody ever changes anyones minds. People believe what they believe and it’s just a never ending debate.
I see your point but hey its a topic on peoples minds and no matter what Pink Floyd is categorized as they will always been thought of as a legend of a band. There's no doubt in my mind Pink Floyd made great music no matter what its defined as. I certainly mean no disrespect and I would pay hundreds of dollars to see Pink Floyd live and will certainly buy any new material released by them .. I love Floyd.  Tongue this topic is far too hot to shut it all down , it's just too interesting to stop now. 

So long as we are all respectful for each others opinions I see no problem with it, I certainly respect each opinion given so far in this thread, it's really made me think Wink

Ok, my question for you is this. What is more of a prog song, Dogs, or Turn it on Again by Genesis? There's a boat load of time changes in TIOA but most of Dogs is standard. 
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