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Bands that could have been successful, but weren't

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Logan View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2020 at 17:49
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

By the way, Rush did play an arena in London in I think about 1978. The London Gardens Arena in London, Ontario, Canada.




Thanks.

Edited by Logan - July 26 2020 at 17:50
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2020 at 17:55
I bet it was cold. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2020 at 18:05
Ok, I believe I found the passage I was looking for in the Rush book. The author was apparently talking about the signals tour(1982). Here is the exact passage: "I arrived in London to see th band's multi-night stand at one of the city's largest concert halls, Wembly Arena. All three nights were sold out, quite an achievement when a hometown band like Yes could only fill the place for one night. The show featured 'subdivisions" and most of the material on the live album."

So there you have it. I looked it up and Wembly arena holds 12,500 seats. That's a total of over 37,000 people for those three nights. I think it's safe to say that we can put to rest this idea that Rush were never very big in the UK. However, I will say that I thought it initially it referred to a bigger venue( I was thinking Wembly stadium maybe)but I was off on that. Were Rush as big as Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, Stones, U2 etc? No but how many bands were? I would say after Pink Floyd they were the biggest band that gets the prog label unless you count Genesis where most of their popularity came from their pop period. So with that in mind they rank number three(after Genesis) but also I would never say even in general that Rush were never very popular or successful.The statistics and record sales disprove that.

In case anyone is interested the book is called Rush Visions: The official biography by Bill Banasiewicz and it came out in 1988. I won't post a link since I'm not selling my copy but you can find the book used on amazon.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 26 2020 at 18:12
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2020 at 18:12
^ That's big by my standards.

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I bet it was cold. LOL




So cold the beer froze, but Canadians are used to it. If you've never seen Rush on ice (the Rush Capades), then you haven't really lived -- Geddy Lee looks lovely in a figure skating dress, even better than in a Kimono. Good thing the hockey players weren't on the ice at the time, that might have been a puck-ing bad gig.

"Ooh, and Alex gets body-checked hard and loses the guitar. But there goes Neil in the fight beating them off with his sticks, and Geddy is shrilly screaming, sounds like he might have taken a hit in a soft, vulnerable place. Ahh, but he's okay, that's just his singing style." And the crowd goes crazy. ;)

It's actually quite fitting.

"To taste my bitter triumph
As a mad immortal man
Nevermore shall I return
Escape these caves of ice" ("Xanadu" off A Farewell to Kings).

Edited by Logan - July 26 2020 at 18:18
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2020 at 18:16
Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Sorry if I caused you offence. I make mistakes often, it's no big deal (except for when it is), I check them, then try to correct them. My memory is not what it was even a few years ago -- deteriorated quite badly. I only mentioned it because I thought verslibre might have not understood the context since he seemed to be referencing Micky's small theatres comment which referred to your recollection. Despite being such a confusing writer, I'm a big one for clarity, transparency and particularly context.

By the way, Rush did play an arena in London in I think about 1978. The London Gardens Arena in London, Ontario, Canada. It's not a very big hockey arena, though. Rush playing hockey arenas, how stereotypically Canadian, just add back-bacon, maple syrup and beer and an apology, eh?

Peace
- Greg the kooky Canuck.

It's ok. It just seemed like I kept repeating myself on here and so I got a little defensive. No biggie.

Anyway, my original point was that Rush were still fairly well known(I won't use the word "big" since it seems to cause confusion and spark debate)even before they were played much on the radio. I was mainly thinking of the US though. They had gold albums in the US before the end of the 70's. I don't think many bands go gold without much support from the radio. I'm sure there are others from that time period but I can't really think of many off the top of my head. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 26 2020 at 18:57
^ I know well how frustrating it can be to feel like you need to keep repeating yourself. A lot of my frustration happens when I feel that I can't seem to get my ideas across. I write something, someone objects, I try to explain my perspective and approach.. Another objects without seemingly having read my explanation. I explain again and so on -- it's like being on a perpetual roundabout. Then I am like, "Please read the thread, I addressed this already." To which they are like, "No, I have better things to do and besides, you probably smell bad" (okay, I probably just imagine that last part). And then I think "Screw you guys, I'm going home." I then realise that I am already home, grab a snack, put on some phat tunes, then chill. Then check the forum and get irritated all over again.    Posting at webforums can feel like an exercise in masochism. I do get tired feeling like I have to explain myself again and again sometimes. Mostly it is enjoyable, though. I try to be easy-going and keep a sense of humour, but sometimes that is easier than at other times. I usually realise that, ultimately, it's not that important, and for a long while it isn't. Then I forget the lesson. *repeating to myself "it's only a webboard, it's only a webboard..."* :)

Originally posted by The Dark Elf The Dark Elf wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Not Prog nor a band, although Prog Folk related to my mind, but I think that Nick Drake could have found much success in his lifetime had his life not been so short and tragic. It was only after his death that he gained quite a large following (the sad circumstances would play a part in the following to some extent). He was very withdrawn and didn't want to make public appearances, interviews or do live concerts, to promote his music and himself, and withdrew from recording and performing music during the last two years of his life. He died at age 26.


I agree about Nick Drake. How eminently tragic that it took a Volkswagen commercial over 25 years after his death to bring him to prominence. Prior to that, his music was strictly underground, passed from person to person. I think you mentioned the sadly prophetic song "Fruit Tree" in another thread. I can't think of a more apt epitaph for Drake.


Nor can I. Such a beautiful, poignant song, and as you say, sadly prophetic song.

"Safe in your place deep in the earth
That's when they'll know what you were really worth."

Edited by Logan - July 26 2020 at 19:17
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 07:18
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Sorry if I caused you offence. I make mistakes often, it's no big deal (except for when it is), I check them, then try to correct them. My memory is not what it was even a few years ago -- deteriorated quite badly. I only mentioned it because I thought verslibre might have not understood the context since he seemed to be referencing Micky's small theatres comment which referred to your recollection. Despite being such a confusing writer, I'm a big one for clarity, transparency and particularly context.

By the way, Rush did play an arena in London in I think about 1978. The London Gardens Arena in London, Ontario, Canada. It's not a very big hockey arena, though. Rush playing hockey arenas, how stereotypically Canadian, just add back-bacon, maple syrup and beer and an apology, eh?

Peace
- Greg the kooky Canuck.

It's ok. It just seemed like I kept repeating myself on here and so I got a little defensive. No biggie.

Anyway, my original point was that Rush were still fairly well known(I won't use the word "big" since it seems to cause confusion and spark debate)even before they were played much on the radio. I was mainly thinking of the US though. They had gold albums in the US before the end of the 70's. I don't think many bands go gold without much support from the radio. I'm sure there are others from that time period but I can't really think of many off the top of my head. 
Since this is such a divided topic (whether Rush were successful or not) someone should make a poll on it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote verslibre Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 11:07
We don't disagree Rush was successful — more like when they were successful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenethlevine Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 11:21
I grew up in Montreal and, at least there they were more of a cult group for the first few albums.  By the time of Hemispheres I had left for Anglo Canada and they seemed more popular there, though perhaps it was just that Hemispheres was the breakthrough album.  The song "The Trees" was deemed to be a commentary on the Quebec-Canada relationship and would probably be my favorite Rush song, though not being a fan, there may be others I would like more if I heard them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rushfan4 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 12:00
Ken, I'm not sure if your familiar with this latter day Rush song, but I think it is one that you might like.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 12:31
Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

We don't disagree Rush was successful — more like when they were successful.

I don't see how having gold albums isn't successful but Rush went way beyond that. I don't deny that they didn't become big or whatever until the 80's though. Also, my idea of success might be different than others. There's a lot of bands I would consider successful that didn't have gold albums and weren't played on the radio. If enough people know who they are and buy their albums and they can make a living out of playing their music and quit their jobs that is successful(to me at least). 

And yes someone on here actually did say they weren't successful(without stipulating a time period). 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 12:36
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Sorry if I caused you offence. I make mistakes often, it's no big deal (except for when it is), I check them, then try to correct them. My memory is not what it was even a few years ago -- deteriorated quite badly. I only mentioned it because I thought verslibre might have not understood the context since he seemed to be referencing Micky's small theatres comment which referred to your recollection. Despite being such a confusing writer, I'm a big one for clarity, transparency and particularly context.

By the way, Rush did play an arena in London in I think about 1978. The London Gardens Arena in London, Ontario, Canada. It's not a very big hockey arena, though. Rush playing hockey arenas, how stereotypically Canadian, just add back-bacon, maple syrup and beer and an apology, eh?

Peace
- Greg the kooky Canuck.

It's ok. It just seemed like I kept repeating myself on here and so I got a little defensive. No biggie.

Anyway, my original point was that Rush were still fairly well known(I won't use the word "big" since it seems to cause confusion and spark debate)even before they were played much on the radio. I was mainly thinking of the US though. They had gold albums in the US before the end of the 70's. I don't think many bands go gold without much support from the radio. I'm sure there are others from that time period but I can't really think of many off the top of my head. 
Since this is such a divided topic (whether Rush were successful or not) someone should make a poll on it.

No offense but in my opinion that would be a pretty ridiculous thing to do. That Rush were successful is pretty much beyond debate imo. You can do the poll if you want but to me that's just absurd. I gave you numerous examples of Rush being successful. The facts speak for themselves. However, if you insist on saying Rush weren't successful you are entitled to your opinion but I can pretty much guarantee you are in the minority with that belief.

By the way, just to be clear I mean in general not in the late 70's. If you want to think they weren't successful then then that's understandable and I won't debate that(even though I even disagree with that) but to me the conversation went beyond that. At least it's more understandable for me if someone says they weren't big or even successful(for that matter)in the 70's then to make the blanket statement(that you seemed to)that Rush were never successful.

Ok, that's it. I really have nothing further to say on this matter.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - July 27 2020 at 13:33
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Logan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 12:44
Some might try to claim that Rush was not artistically successful from a subjective perspective (I'd argue against them from what I think is a pretty objective standpoint), but not commercially successful? People would laugh. Yes I know success can be comparative, but compared to the vast majority of bands Rush had the kind of success that most bands could only dream of. And I would say that Rush were already highly successful in the 70s. Rush remains a staple on classic rock radio here in Canada. There may be Subdivisions (love that song), but you won't find much division on if Rush was successful here. Here meaning Prog Archives, not meaning the Great White North that is Canada (mind you, with climate change it's less white than it used to be, but still pretty great, eh).



Edited by Logan - July 27 2020 at 13:08
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AEProgman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 13:41
Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Two of my favorite bands that could have had a different trajectory include Captain Beyond and Flash. 

Both were hampered by mercurial band members, uneven label support and lack of vision.  If Flash had retained a permanent keyboard player, they might have excelled.  Flash bassist Ray Bennett once told me that they were trying to hire Patrick Moraz, but it was not to be. 

However, both bands did leave an impressive catalog.  RIP Peter Banks, Lee Dorman and Rhino Reinhardt.

Yes, agree on both of these.  Love both bands debut albums.  Would have loved to have heard what Flash would do with Moraz!

Another band that I thought should have made it bigger was Budgie, loved all their first 5 or 6 albums.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 27 2020 at 14:27
A band I sometimes hear people say should have been bigger is Lucifer's Friend.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2020 at 03:37
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Sorry if I caused you offence. I make mistakes often, it's no big deal (except for when it is), I check them, then try to correct them. My memory is not what it was even a few years ago -- deteriorated quite badly. I only mentioned it because I thought verslibre might have not understood the context since he seemed to be referencing Micky's small theatres comment which referred to your recollection. Despite being such a confusing writer, I'm a big one for clarity, transparency and particularly context.

By the way, Rush did play an arena in London in I think about 1978. The London Gardens Arena in London, Ontario, Canada. It's not a very big hockey arena, though. Rush playing hockey arenas, how stereotypically Canadian, just add back-bacon, maple syrup and beer and an apology, eh?

Peace
- Greg the kooky Canuck.

It's ok. It just seemed like I kept repeating myself on here and so I got a little defensive. No biggie.

Anyway, my original point was that Rush were still fairly well known(I won't use the word "big" since it seems to cause confusion and spark debate)even before they were played much on the radio. I was mainly thinking of the US though. They had gold albums in the US before the end of the 70's. I don't think many bands go gold without much support from the radio. I'm sure there are others from that time period but I can't really think of many off the top of my head. 
Since this is such a divided topic (whether Rush were successful or not) someone should make a poll on it.

No offense but in my opinion that would be a pretty ridiculous thing to do. That Rush were successful is pretty much beyond debate imo. You can do the poll if you want but to me that's just absurd. I gave you numerous examples of Rush being successful. The facts speak for themselves. However, if you insist on saying Rush weren't successful you are entitled to your opinion but I can pretty much guarantee you are in the minority with that belief.

By the way, just to be clear I mean in general not in the late 70's. If you want to think they weren't successful then then that's understandable and I won't debate that(even though I even disagree with that) but to me the conversation went beyond that. At least it's more understandable for me if someone says they weren't big or even successful(for that matter)in the 70's then to make the blanket statement(that you seemed to)that Rush were never successful.

Ok, that's it. I really have nothing further to say on this matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2020 at 03:46
Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

A band I sometimes hear people say should have been bigger is Lucifer's Friend.
Just been having a look at them... apparently their main genres were prog rock and hard rock, both which were more than popular in the early 70s. There doesn't seem to be much of a reason why they weren't at least quite successful. That is, I can't make an excuse for it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 28 2020 at 13:21
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Originally posted by Logan Logan wrote:

Sorry if I caused you offence. I make mistakes often, it's no big deal (except for when it is), I check them, then try to correct them. My memory is not what it was even a few years ago -- deteriorated quite badly. I only mentioned it because I thought verslibre might have not understood the context since he seemed to be referencing Micky's small theatres comment which referred to your recollection. Despite being such a confusing writer, I'm a big one for clarity, transparency and particularly context.

By the way, Rush did play an arena in London in I think about 1978. The London Gardens Arena in London, Ontario, Canada. It's not a very big hockey arena, though. Rush playing hockey arenas, how stereotypically Canadian, just add back-bacon, maple syrup and beer and an apology, eh?

Peace
- Greg the kooky Canuck.

It's ok. It just seemed like I kept repeating myself on here and so I got a little defensive. No biggie.

Anyway, my original point was that Rush were still fairly well known(I won't use the word "big" since it seems to cause confusion and spark debate)even before they were played much on the radio. I was mainly thinking of the US though. They had gold albums in the US before the end of the 70's. I don't think many bands go gold without much support from the radio. I'm sure there are others from that time period but I can't really think of many off the top of my head. 
Since this is such a divided topic (whether Rush were successful or not) someone should make a poll on it.

No offense but in my opinion that would be a pretty ridiculous thing to do. That Rush were successful is pretty much beyond debate imo. You can do the poll if you want but to me that's just absurd. I gave you numerous examples of Rush being successful. The facts speak for themselves. However, if you insist on saying Rush weren't successful you are entitled to your opinion but I can pretty much guarantee you are in the minority with that belief.

By the way, just to be clear I mean in general not in the late 70's. If you want to think they weren't successful then then that's understandable and I won't debate that(even though I even disagree with that) but to me the conversation went beyond that. At least it's more understandable for me if someone says they weren't big or even successful(for that matter)in the 70's then to make the blanket statement(that you seemed to)that Rush were never successful.

Ok, that's it. I really have nothing further to say on this matter.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FatherChristmas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2020 at 11:25
Nothing to do with prog, really, but I think Ocean Colour Scene deserve a mention. Not that they weren't successful - they had a number one album in '97 - but after that they sort of disappeared. It's a shame, they had loads of potential. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 29 2020 at 11:28
Originally posted by FatherChristmas FatherChristmas wrote:

Nothing to do with prog, really, but I think Ocean Colour Scene deserve a mention. Not that they weren't successful - they had a number one album in '97 - but after that they sort of disappeared. It's a shame, they had loads of potential. 
 
I'm a true blue fan of Ocean Colour Scene too. I have all but one of their albums in my CD collection. Smile
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