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Posted: September 22 2020 at 14:29
Now that Trump has floated a religious conservative as a replacement for RBG, Mitt Romney is all in. A new Justice to the SCOTUS before the elections in November? Very possible.
Edited by SteveG - September 22 2020 at 14:32
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Posted: September 21 2020 at 23:35
progaardvark wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
Don't remember which pollster mentioned this recently, but he said Trump talked the way many working class center right voters do, which was what made them connect to him.
I have heard this said before, but most center-right working class folks I've had the experience of talking to over the last couple decades of my life don't talk like Trump does. Those that do seem to be in the minority and are usually known as braggarts. Like the rest of us, they know what they are and they tend to try to avoid getting trapped into conversations with braggarts. I don't know how these folks don't see this attribute in Trump.
If they do see this and are willing to dismiss it, then there is something more going on here. Partly it can be blamed on right-wing media (Limbaugh, Alex Jones, Fox News, etc.) which oversimplifies almost everything into black and white, when most things are many shades of gray. The other part I think is that the Democrats haven't really tried hard enough to reach out to rural populations. And then there is the abortion thing.
I remembered the pollster. Rich Thau. I think he meant more the issues and views Trump brought to the table on immigration, trade, manufacturing exodus than the tone itself.
Thau has been doing a swing voter project where it would appear huge majorities of his (small) samples are voting against Trump in Pennsylvania but less so in Michigan and the samples are overwhelmingly in favour of Biden in Wisconsin. Note that these are all people who voted for Trump (I think) in 2016, so even if Biden is splicing off a small minority of them to his side, it could be enough to tip the scales in all three states.
I think Biden has so far reflected better political instincts than Clinton in 2016 and makes up through his folksiness and empathy what he lacks in aggression. Whether it will be enough will only become clear after the election, but he has done well to skirt the usually thinly veiled and sometimes open contempt the rich suburbanite Dems seem to have for working class voters. Case in point: Stephanie Ruhle getting all upset on air that Biden told working class voters that this election is Scranton v/s Park Avenue. Well, what else did you think he would tell them, he's going about it smartly, get out of his way.
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Posted: September 21 2020 at 10:06
A new, upcoming song from US band Crack The Sky, to be released just in time for the inauguration. This is how I've been feeling things are going lately. I really hope that it isn't a prediction for the future.
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Posted: September 21 2020 at 09:02
Being old, decrepit and having a slew of MDs, it amazes me how many of then tout the Trump/Republican covid stance. Examples would be "sure there's more cases but we're doing more testing than before", etc. etc. If my life wasn't in their hands, I would gladly ask them to explain why drinking Lysol and bleach would be good for eradicating covid. The strange thing is that they are all great doctors that know medicine inside and out. What causes these lapses in common sense?
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Posted: September 21 2020 at 07:41
rogerthat wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I believe that people like to have someone confirm what they already think or believe. Trump just fits that role for many Americans.
Don't remember which pollster mentioned this recently, but he said Trump talked the way many working class center right voters do, which was what made them connect to him.
I have heard this said before, but most center-right working class folks I've had the experience of talking to over the last couple decades of my life don't talk like Trump does. Those that do seem to be in the minority and are usually known as braggarts. Like the rest of us, they know what they are and they tend to try to avoid getting trapped into conversations with braggarts. I don't know how these folks don't see this attribute in Trump.
If they do see this and are willing to dismiss it, then there is something more going on here. Partly it can be blamed on right-wing media (Limbaugh, Alex Jones, Fox News, etc.) which oversimplifies almost everything into black and white, when most things are many shades of gray. The other part I think is that the Democrats haven't really tried hard enough to reach out to rural populations. And then there is the abortion thing.
---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
Joined: June 14 2007
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Posted: September 21 2020 at 07:06
Easy Money wrote:
Hercules wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Sometimes I think Trump has no real politics and is quite bright, but conceals it in order to consolidate the lunatic base.
He likes to win. That is his motivation. Edit: but I don't think he is all that bright, brighter and more pragmatic than a lot of his supporters, but that isn't saying much.
I like to win too, and have actually won 4 elections out of 5 in which I've been a candidate. But I would never tailor my manifesto to appeal to the sort of supporter base Trump plays to. I have too much self respect to stoop that low.
Good, keep it up.
But I live in Yorkshire, (England, UK, Europe) so no help to you in Memphis!
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 19:33
micky wrote:
SteveG wrote:
The right has grouped interlectualism with elitism. How convenient.
are they wrong to?
One could argue that.. and I have a long Mick-post chambered but for once with the safety on..
that is the only goddamned thing those far right morons are correct about.
I can argue that. Interlectuals are the same as everyone else. Some are cool and some are not. Just like non interlectuals. Pff. Such profiling from you Micky. Such prejudice. Lol
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 18:20
npjnpj wrote:
Look, if anyone is dumb as sh*t, expert knowledge and intelligence must be really scary because they're so alien. So of course you welcome the current tendency to vilify these and support a government that shows you how important and valuable you really are.
As they say: one of the worst things on Earth is an idiot with an opinion. But why are there so many of them?
I saw an interesting poll the other day: 89% of Americans who believe in the Flat Earth theory intend to vote for Trump. They think he's the only politician who stands against the "Global Conspiracy" that is spreading lies about the shape of the earth, vaccines, chemtrails, 5G, the Moon landings, satellites, evolution and all the other stuff that they haven't the intellect to understand so they rubbish from a standpoint of nothing other than personal incredulity.
He dismisses everything critical of him as a "hoax" or "fake news", as do they of anything that contradicts their insane view of the world. So they love him.
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 18:14
Hercules wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Sometimes I think Trump has no real politics and is quite bright, but conceals it in order to consolidate the lunatic base.
He likes to win. That is his motivation. Edit: but I don't think he is all that bright, brighter and more pragmatic than a lot of his supporters, but that isn't saying much.
I like to win too, and have actually won 4 elections out of 5 in which I've been a candidate. But I would never tailor my manifesto to appeal to the sort of supporter base Trump plays to. I have too much self respect to stoop that low.
Good, keep it up.
Help the victims of the russian invasion: http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&PID=130446&title=various-ways-you-can-help-ukraine#130446
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 18:11
Easy Money wrote:
Atavachron wrote:
Sometimes I think Trump has no real politics and is quite bright, but conceals it in order to consolidate the lunatic base.
He likes to win. That is his motivation. Edit: but I don't think he is all that bright, brighter and more pragmatic than a lot of his supporters, but that isn't saying much.
I like to win too, and have actually won 4 elections out of 5 in which I've been a candidate. But I would never tailor my manifesto to appeal to the sort of supporter base Trump plays to. I have too much self respect to stoop that low.
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 16:30
BaldFriede wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
Look, if anyone is dumb as sh*t, expert knowledge and intelligence must be really scary because they're so alien. So of course you welcome the current tendency to vilify these and support a government that shows you how important and valuable you really are.
As they say: one of the worst things on Earth is an idiot with an opinion. But why are there so many of them?
I don't even think it's pure ignorance as in uneducated and unaware. I think Trump like other demagogues inspires passions to such an extent that very well educated people lock themselves in intellectual gymnastics to defend him, making arguments they would probably laugh at if made on somebody else's behalf.
As always, looking at developments at home gives me a window into what is happening in the case of Trump. Our Commerce Minister is not only a Chartered Accountant (CPA) but a gold medalist. He doesn't lack for education or reasoning abilities. I once had the opportunity to observe him at work in an industry-govt meeting and he was both sharp and sharp-tongued alright. Now imagine this man making a statement like "dropping out of school didn't stop Einstein from discovering gravity" in defence of anti-intellectualism. Why, why, why? I don't believe he doesn't actually know who discovered gravity. They just get so locked into anti-rational arguments that it sort of becomes second nature for them to say things that would come across as ignorant. But since they don't see themselves as ignorant, those laughing at such statements and calling them ignorant is deeply offensive to them and they double down on their support for the demagogue in question.
Scott Adams described in 2015 how Trump was using specific words to hypnotize voters and cited some (possibly dubious) qualifications in the art of hypnosis as his credentials to back such a judgment. I think in retrospect (looking at Adams' own descent down the drain of Trumpism) Adams was actually describing the process of himself getting hypnotized. He was self-aware enough to observe that this was what was happening to him but seemingly disgusted enough with 'liberals' that he didn't resist this and allowed himself to be sucked into it. And I think that possibly happens with many Trump supporters. What people call ignorance is actually a defensive shield mounted by a strong emotional connection to Trump or rather the causes Trump has promised to fight for. The chief cause in this case being 'owning the libs'. And if liberals truly are befuddled as to why owning the libs became so important for Trump supporters, maybe they should reflect on comments like Obama's 'clinging to their guns, racism' or Hillary's 'basket of deplorables'.
It isn't even true that Einstein dropped out of school. He dropped out of German school but went to Switzerland to attend school there. At age 15, by the way.
I know. The modus operandi of such people is to get it wrong bigly and not just a little wrong. To make it absurd, so that it is a sure fire bait.
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 11:08
rogerthat wrote:
npjnpj wrote:
Look, if anyone is dumb as sh*t, expert knowledge and intelligence must be really scary because they're so alien. So of course you welcome the current tendency to vilify these and support a government that shows you how important and valuable you really are.
As they say: one of the worst things on Earth is an idiot with an opinion. But why are there so many of them?
I don't even think it's pure ignorance as in uneducated and unaware. I think Trump like other demagogues inspires passions to such an extent that very well educated people lock themselves in intellectual gymnastics to defend him, making arguments they would probably laugh at if made on somebody else's behalf.
As always, looking at developments at home gives me a window into what is happening in the case of Trump. Our Commerce Minister is not only a Chartered Accountant (CPA) but a gold medalist. He doesn't lack for education or reasoning abilities. I once had the opportunity to observe him at work in an industry-govt meeting and he was both sharp and sharp-tongued alright. Now imagine this man making a statement like "dropping out of school didn't stop Einstein from discovering gravity" in defence of anti-intellectualism. Why, why, why? I don't believe he doesn't actually know who discovered gravity. They just get so locked into anti-rational arguments that it sort of becomes second nature for them to say things that would come across as ignorant. But since they don't see themselves as ignorant, those laughing at such statements and calling them ignorant is deeply offensive to them and they double down on their support for the demagogue in question.
Scott Adams described in 2015 how Trump was using specific words to hypnotize voters and cited some (possibly dubious) qualifications in the art of hypnosis as his credentials to back such a judgment. I think in retrospect (looking at Adams' own descent down the drain of Trumpism) Adams was actually describing the process of himself getting hypnotized. He was self-aware enough to observe that this was what was happening to him but seemingly disgusted enough with 'liberals' that he didn't resist this and allowed himself to be sucked into it. And I think that possibly happens with many Trump supporters. What people call ignorance is actually a defensive shield mounted by a strong emotional connection to Trump or rather the causes Trump has promised to fight for. The chief cause in this case being 'owning the libs'. And if liberals truly are befuddled as to why owning the libs became so important for Trump supporters, maybe they should reflect on comments like Obama's 'clinging to their guns, racism' or Hillary's 'basket of deplorables'.
It isn't even true that Einstein dropped out of school. He dropped out of German school but went to Switzerland to attend school there. At age 15, by the way.
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 09:41
SteveG wrote:
rogerthat wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I believe that peoples i like to have someone confirm what they already think or believe. Trump just fits that role for many Americans.
Don't remember which pollster mentioned this recently, but he said Trump talked the way many working class center right voters do, which was what made them connect to him.
Yes, he connects with his followers.No doubt about that. It's his most outstanding feature. He even makes lies believable. Just like Hitler. Lol But again, his followers want to believe them. A very strange symbiotic relationship.
At a certain point, these people found the distance necessitated by the language of statesmanship off-putting/intimidating, however it may be. Career politicians would have worried about the consequences of not issuing a poll-tested message. Trump didn't go into this thinking he would win, so he went all out. Much to his chagrin, he won and now his ego won't permit him to accept he failed and walk away.
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 09:12
rogerthat wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I believe that peoples i like to have someone confirm what they already think or believe. Trump just fits that role for many Americans.
Don't remember which pollster mentioned this recently, but he said Trump talked the way many working class center right voters do, which was what made them connect to him.
Yes, he connects with his followers.No doubt about that. It's his most outstanding feature. He even makes lies believable. Just like Hitler. Lol But again, his followers want to believe them. A very strange symbiotic relationship.
Edited by SteveG - September 20 2020 at 09:19
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 09:09
SteveG wrote:
I believe that people like to have someone confirm what they already think or believe. Trump just fits that role for many Americans.
Don't remember which pollster mentioned this recently, but he said Trump talked the way many working class center right voters do, which was what made them connect to him.
Joined: September 03 2006
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Posted: September 20 2020 at 08:11
npjnpj wrote:
Look, if anyone is dumb as sh*t, expert knowledge and intelligence must be really scary because they're so alien. So of course you welcome the current tendency to vilify these and support a government that shows you how important and valuable you really are.
As they say: one of the worst things on Earth is an idiot with an opinion. But why are there so many of them?
I don't even think it's pure ignorance as in uneducated and unaware. I think Trump like other demagogues inspires passions to such an extent that very well educated people lock themselves in intellectual gymnastics to defend him, making arguments they would probably laugh at if made on somebody else's behalf.
As always, looking at developments at home gives me a window into what is happening in the case of Trump. Our Commerce Minister is not only a Chartered Accountant (CPA) but a gold medalist. He doesn't lack for education or reasoning abilities. I once had the opportunity to observe him at work in an industry-govt meeting and he was both sharp and sharp-tongued alright. Now imagine this man making a statement like "dropping out of school didn't stop Einstein from discovering gravity" in defence of anti-intellectualism. Why, why, why? I don't believe he doesn't actually know who discovered gravity. They just get so locked into anti-rational arguments that it sort of becomes second nature for them to say things that would come across as ignorant. But since they don't see themselves as ignorant, those laughing at such statements and calling them ignorant is deeply offensive to them and they double down on their support for the demagogue in question.
Scott Adams described in 2015 how Trump was using specific words to hypnotize voters and cited some (possibly dubious) qualifications in the art of hypnosis as his credentials to back such a judgment. I think in retrospect (looking at Adams' own descent down the drain of Trumpism) Adams was actually describing the process of himself getting hypnotized. He was self-aware enough to observe that this was what was happening to him but seemingly disgusted enough with 'liberals' that he didn't resist this and allowed himself to be sucked into it. And I think that possibly happens with many Trump supporters. What people call ignorance is actually a defensive shield mounted by a strong emotional connection to Trump or rather the causes Trump has promised to fight for. The chief cause in this case being 'owning the libs'. And if liberals truly are befuddled as to why owning the libs became so important for Trump supporters, maybe they should reflect on comments like Obama's 'clinging to their guns, racism' or Hillary's 'basket of deplorables'.
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progaardvark wrote:
Groovy.
