Prog musicians juggling music career and work? |
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Easy Money
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 11 2007 Location: Memphis Status: Offline Points: 10401 |
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I've been making my living in music for about 30 years now. It used to be a combination of gigs and lesson teaching, now its all lesson teaching. Playing gigs can be fun, but its a slow way to make money when you factor in traveling and moving equipment. Covid killed all of my band's gigs and I don't know if I want to go back to doing that anyway at this point.
Due to covid, there has been a big upsurge of folks taking lessons via Zoom and that has worked really well for me. These days I teach lessons for people in Texas, Chicago, Baltimore, NYC and all over the country. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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I actually did say this, more than once, for a couple of years on this site.
If the fans don't value music, musicians will keep on playing. But not for them. They'll just get together in little groups and play amongst themselves. Or do collaborative stuff over the internet. Since there's no commercial outlet any more, musicians will stop bothering putting the effort in to chasing smoke. Now, some "experts" on this site like Mosh will say "so they're not true musicians" and berate all of us who have just given up in the face of insurmountable odds. Yeah, well, musicians don't exist in a vacuum. You can argue that true musicians keep playing for true fans. It's a two way process. And the process is bust. For years, I've monitored stats on my website and it goes like this. Free music is hoovered up. Look at the free music thread here, it's absolutely dead. The idea behind free music is you do a giveaway and fans have the courtesy to pay for some of your other stuff. They don't. The free tracks and albums are snaffled up. The pay for stuff is untouched. And that includes most PA members. I've seen people protest that they buy music, then see them go on the Bandcamp site I have, download the free stuff and use the rest as a free radio station. I had two of my own friends tell me that they'd had an evening together drinking wine and listening to one of my albums which they really liked. Did they buy it ? No. Didn't even occur to them. Music is now seen as being free. There is no such thing as a free lunch. It's like a relationship, well, it is a relationship. There's give and take, but in the case of the "fans", it's all take and no give. People used to support bands, they don't any more. It's impossible to tour, it's impossible to release CD's if you're specialised, it's impossible to find cheap gig venues, so the only option is to give up being kicked by everyone and just play amongst yourselves, if you're a musician. And that is the reality. Tough titty, "fans". Told you so. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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I now await gibberish replies from Mosh, who is actually the main reason for me leaving this site. I'm back visiting and because it's a boring day at work. Doing the day job, as 99.9% of all musicians are.
In the real world. The argument also goes that "musicians have to diversify, learn sales and marketing skills and sell themselves". That's my day job, sales and marketing. 25 years experience. I can tell you now that trying to sell and market specialised music to people who fundamentally don't want to pay for it is a complete fool's errand. Edited by Davesax1965 - October 12 2021 at 03:23 |
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SteveG
Forum Senior Member Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20531 |
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^ And that's the bottom line. In the digital download world, there is no longer a supply and demand system in the music business. But I must say, leaving site because of mosh is surprising. I kind of view him as furniture.
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19965 |
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Sadly you've hit the nail on the head there. File sharing, illegal free MP3 sites, Spotify etc have all served to devalue the worth of music to people. The same with a lot of software, people have got used to downloading for free so the idea of paying for it is weird to them. It's sad and I don't know what the answer is.
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rogerthat
Prog Reviewer Joined: September 03 2006 Location: . Status: Offline Points: 9869 |
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Wilson wrote the epitaph a long time ago and was dead right about this, sadly:
"One of the wonders of the world is going down/It's going down/I know It's one of the blunders of the world that no-one cares/No-one cares enough"
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Well, it was mainly the ad hominem attacks and digs. It's a pity you can't block or throw people off the site, but I got quite sick of him saying exactly what he wanted, even if it was socially unacceptable. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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I see that now Covid is beginning to fade into the background, ticket prices are going up at venues. We were going to go to a gig in early January but the prices were just eye watering.
So there's another effect of not paying for music. The few bands left who can afford to tour can charge through the nose for it. Of course, part of this is down to greedy music venues, but if you can only put one show on on a Saturday, you put on the one which makes you the most money. So it's a cycle of rip offs at all levels, to be honest. |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19965 |
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I've found the best way to deal with him is to ignore his posts. Most of them are long, rambling and complete b*ll*cks anyway.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Another thing which grabs me. The reason why music is dying on it's feet is that there are not as many quality musicians coming through.
Now, at this stage, all the young whippersnappers on the site will tell me I'm wrong, but, er, sorry, I've been a musician for over 45 years and I do actually remember what the standards of music used to be like and how many musicians there were in the 70's. Of course, there are many more distractions today but we have a generation who are convinced that someone else should play music for them and, say, learning guitar is something someone else does. The few who do actually learn an instrument seem to think that learning a three chord trick of shouting gibberish and spit into a microphone is sufficient to make them famous. So there's been a dilution of talent as well. There's still a lot out there, but music is not the holy grail it used to be and we live in a generation of instant gratification. No one is interested in mastering an instrument, which is the basis behind progressive rock. Prog rock won't make you rich or famous. Tell me about it. So less and less youthpersons are bothering to put the hours in. All in all, not having venues or revenues is pretty bad. But not having competent musicians is the death knell. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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All of them. ;-) "Hi <complete unconnected rant>" <ignores all contrary opinion, even if it's from more qualified people> - and I am too much of a gentleman to say what I really think of that kind of attitude here. |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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I think the point when he was telling me all about modular synths when I'd spent four years building one from scratch was possibly one of the more blood pressure inducing ones I've had in recent years.
He'd got a free VST or something which conferred expert status on him. I just know some of the top synth designers in the world. So that's me told. Edited by Davesax1965 - October 14 2021 at 07:44 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Just went over to the "free music downloads" sticky here on PA to see what was happening.
Here's a quote from a PA member. "I am looking for a legal way to get Harbour of Tears by Camel for free. It is nowhere on Youtube save for Watching for the Bobbins and a few others. It is not on Spotify, but if I pirate it at the Pirates Bay, then I feel that I will not get caught, because Camel is fairly obscure save for us(the progheads) where it is mainstream." Here's my answer. "Pay for it, there's a legal way". So there you have it. You might note that there are one or two people still giving music away for free but the thread is essentially static. (I was last on it on 24th May 2020 giving some music away, it's one page back. It's effectively been dead for a year.) So do you all have an adequate answer why music is dying ? Yep. It's the fans. Or lack of them. Should I say "fans" instead ? And that includes a lot of PA members, as my website stats show. So stop whining and start supporting, whilst you still have some music left. Edited by Davesax1965 - October 14 2021 at 08:31 |
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chopper
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator Joined: July 13 2005 Location: Essex, UK Status: Offline Points: 19965 |
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that is just unbelieveable.
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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It's endemic, Chopper - it's just that there's one person here stupid enough to admit it.
Needless to say I edited my original reply to remove the word "thief". |
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Grumpyprogfan
Forum Senior Member Joined: July 09 2019 Location: Kansas City Status: Offline Points: 10168 |
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Edited by Grumpyprogfan - October 15 2021 at 07:04 |
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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How long have you been playing ? ;-)
45 years in my case, so this is knowledge and not opinion. The general standard has fallen through the floor. There are a few good musicians around but they're the stand out rarity. Some local "sax expert " said wow, Bb, Eb, that's an unusual key signature. Jesus. I was going to invite him around for a jam but I tend to play in harmonic minors. One of my mates gave up on having a bassist in his band as the last five he had just looked at their shoes if he started deviating from the tab the bassist had learnt. About 1-2% of musicians can improvise nowadays as well. Edited by Davesax1965 - October 15 2021 at 08:19 |
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cstack3
Forum Senior Member VIP Member Joined: July 20 2009 Location: Tucson, AZ USA Status: Offline Points: 6809 |
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Pity we don't live around the block from one another! Arizona USA is a bit of a swim, with my gear on my back. UK is a big place, where you be?
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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!
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Davesax1965
Forum Senior Member Joined: May 23 2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 2826 |
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Hi Cstack3, I'm about 22 miles south of Manchester. ;-)
Better start swimming now. ;-) |
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Frenetic Zetetic
Forum Senior Member Joined: December 09 2017 Location: Now Status: Offline Points: 9233 |
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It's getting harder and harder to find quality musicians, let alone locally.
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"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021 |
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