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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2022 at 19:09
Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

I met an Ukrainian guy last summer in Davutlar. That's where our summer house is. He was planning to buy a house there. Some foreigners buy houses and stay there all the time, whilst most of them only spend their time in Davutlar during the summers. I hope that guy was in the first group and is staying safe in Turkey. He was a nice person.

Woon is not active lately. I hope he is OK too. Great guy.
Thanks Ozgur, and yes, Woon has been here almost every day lately. He hasn't posted in a while, but he has been here checking out this thread and others.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2022 at 19:18
putin's army attacks one of the largest open markets in East Europe, Barabashovo in Charkiv. The destruction is truly hellish.
https://t.me/nexta_live/22216

Edited by Easy Money - March 17 2022 at 19:20
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 17 2022 at 20:08
Little  b a s t a r d s .

"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 05:23
I never post anything anywhere without doing more than basic research, often in depth.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 06:14
Chomsky, Foucault, etc diatribes being wheeled out, Wacko

How about the prescient prog philosopher Gregory Stuart Lake's view of Kiev (Kiyv) from the early 70s...
(apologies for a musical interlude on this political forum)

Come forth, from love's fire
Born in life's fire
Born in life's fire
Come forth, from love's fire
In the burning, of our yearning
For life to be
And in pain there must be gain
New life!
Stirring in, salty streams
And dark hidden seams
Where the fossil sun gleams
They were, sent from the gates
Ride the tides of fate
Ride the tides of fate
They were, sent from the gates
In the burning all are yearning
For life to be
There's no end to my life
No beginning to my death
Death is life


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 06:31
Originally posted by tszirmay tszirmay wrote:

https://fortune.com/2022/03/02/viktor-yanukovych-yanukovich-putin-put-back-in-power-ukraine-russia/<br style="caret-color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; text-size-adjust: auto;"><br style="caret-color: rgb0, 0, 0; font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; text-size-adjust: auto;">
The man in waiting......ugh
I would imagine this is putin's plan, kill Zelensky and put Yanukovich back in power,
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 06:36
Re Nutter: I was already working on learning the entire piano version of "Pictures ...". When puitin launched his invasion I decided to go to the last section of the piece, which is of course "The City Gates" (Kyiv). Just a way of paying tribute, plus I am sending money to help provide medical supplies.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 06:37
An interview with Igor Sidorenko (PA’s Prog-jester).

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 06:52
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

Originally posted by Archisorcerus Archisorcerus wrote:

I met an Ukrainian guy last summer in Davutlar. That's where our summer house is. He was planning to buy a house there. Some foreigners buy houses and stay there all the time, whilst most of them only spend their time in Davutlar during the summers. I hope that guy was in the first group and is staying safe in Turkey. He was a nice person.

Woon is not active lately. I hope he is OK too. Great guy.
Thanks Ozgur, and yes, Woon has been here almost every day lately. He hasn't posted in a while, but he has been here checking out this thread and others.

Well, yes, as of now I am still alive and well and living in Ukraine. Honestly, I am tired of posting. I see no much sense in it. Everyone of us has own views and we are too adult and too experienced to be able to change our views. 

I may only say (or rather repeat) that the seeds of the current conflict were sown quite in February 2014. In February 2014 Russia was unprepared for the invasion into Ukraine, they had Sochi Olympic Games. They were going to host the soccer World Cup in 2018, too. Now that they've hosted it all, participated in the recent Olympics, they are ready to fight. This is the war that should have happened in February-March 2014. For PR and organisational reasons, Russia was not ready for such war earlier. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 06:59
^ What city are you in?
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 07:07
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

putin's army attacks one of the largest open markets in East Europe, Barabashovo in Charkiv. The destruction is truly hellish.
https://t.me/nexta_live/22216

Just to post something more relaxing and at the same time informative. Not all of us here in the thread are aware of the Russian/Ukrainian x sound/letter issue. 

Russian sound (and the corresponding letter of) x is traditionally represented in English texts as kh (sometimes as ch). Certainly, most native English speakers pronounce it as k. But it is not k and have never been. It is an English h pronounced in the position of the tongue that is used for pronouncing the sound k. 

English h is more light-hearted, as it were. Just a puff of air, as it were. Slavic h sounds more... solid, less light-hearted. This is actually, the same sound as Spanish j, German ch, modern Polish h. It is the same sound as CLASSIC Scottish ch in the words like loch. Younger Scots tend to pronounce it as just k. But listen to the older Scots, truer Scots: LOL




So, just for the sake of correctness and interest, the city's name in Ukrainian Cyrillic is XAPKIB - [that-Scottish-ch]arkiv. 

Hope, I have brought some fun and info to the thread.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 07:09
Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ What city are you in?

I'm not sure it is of any necessity to mention that now, honestly. Not in Kiev or Kharkiv, though. Not far from Kiev, southwards. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 07:18
Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

putin's army attacks one of the largest open markets in East Europe, Barabashovo in Charkiv. The destruction is truly hellish.
https://t.me/nexta_live/22216

Just to post something more relaxing and at the same time informative. Not all of us here in the thread are aware of the Russian/Ukrainian x sound/letter issue. 

Russian sound (and the corresponding letter of) x is traditionally represented in English texts as kh (sometimes as ch). Certainly, most native English speakers pronounce it as k. But it is not k and have never been. It is an English h pronounced in the position of the tongue that is used for pronouncing the sound k. 

English h is more light-hearted, as it were. Just a puff of air, as it were. Slavic h sounds more... solid, less light-hearted. This is actually, the same sound as Spanish j, German ch, modern Polish h. It is the same sound as CLASSIC Scottish ch in the words like loch. Younger Scots tend to pronounce it as just k. But listen to the older Scots, truer Scots: LOL




So, just for the sake of correctness and interest, the city's name in Ukrainian Cyrillic is XAPKIB - [that-Scottish-ch]arkiv. 

Hope, I have brought some fun and info to the thread.

I have noticed on the radio it is more often than not pronounced ‘harkiv, though perhaps the “c” in the Scottish ch is simply lost. I like to pronounce loch in the Scottish manner, simply because I like the sound, but I can understand why it’s hard for some to pronounce when it’s not a natural sound in their normal language.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 07:26
This thread provides many resources for helping the victims of the invasion.

http://www.jazzmusicarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=28523&title=support-ukraine
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 07:48
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

putin's army attacks one of the largest open markets in East Europe, Barabashovo in Charkiv. The destruction is truly hellish.
https://t.me/nexta_live/22216

Just to post something more relaxing and at the same time informative. Not all of us here in the thread are aware of the Russian/Ukrainian x sound/letter issue. 

Russian sound (and the corresponding letter of) x is traditionally represented in English texts as kh (sometimes as ch). Certainly, most native English speakers pronounce it as k. But it is not k and have never been. It is an English h pronounced in the position of the tongue that is used for pronouncing the sound k. 

English h is more light-hearted, as it were. Just a puff of air, as it were. Slavic h sounds more... solid, less light-hearted. This is actually, the same sound as Spanish j, German ch, modern Polish h. It is the same sound as CLASSIC Scottish ch in the words like loch. Younger Scots tend to pronounce it as just k. But listen to the older Scots, truer Scots: LOL




So, just for the sake of correctness and interest, the city's name in Ukrainian Cyrillic is XAPKIB - [that-Scottish-ch]arkiv. 

Hope, I have brought some fun and info to the thread.

I have noticed on the radio it is more often than not pronounced ‘harkiv, though perhaps the “c” in the Scottish ch is simply lost. I like to pronounce loch in the Scottish manner, simply because I like the sound, but I can understand why it’s hard for some to pronounce when it’s not a natural sound in their normal language.


An average old enough native Russian or Ukrainian speaker used to always transliterate, transcribe Rus/Ukr x as h in English. For us, for me x is simply h. Not always so with the opposite direction of translation. Thus, George Harrison is Dzhordzh [X]arrison in Russian, but the American sci-fi writer Harry Harrison is, for some unknown reason, Garri Garrison in Russian. Also, Hollywood is Gollivud, Harry Potter is Garri Potter. For the Russian eyes and ears, all of the known German Nazi authorities had surnames starting with G: Gitler, Gebbels, Gimmler, Gering... Knowing that the Russian word for sh*t (govno - direct relative of the word Govinda, by the way) also starts with g, it was very symbolic for the Soviet people that all the Nazi leaders are basically one big G or a heap of capital G's. 

Russian speakers also traditionally differentiate between the i and y letters radically. There are two distinct sounds/letters of the i-family so to say in Russian: the one for short ee and the one for ih. In Polish they have the respective letters of i and y for them. Most Russian speakers (even if they are not familiar with the respective Polish alphabet's concept) traditionally perceive the English i and y as representing these Russian ee and ih sounds respectively.



Perhaps because of its more massive, thicker appearance, we traditionally perceive the English letter y as representing rather the ih sound, even in English texts. It is also how we intuitively tend to write Russian words in English letters: for example, bliny (crepes), by which we imply blee-NIH, although foreigners naturally used to feel no difference between their i's and y's, therefore they usually pronounce it as blee-NEE.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 07:58
Originally posted by nick_h_nz nick_h_nz wrote:

An interview with Igor Sidorenko (PA’s Prog-jester).

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Yes, a nice interview. Strength and love to him and all from here in West Wales.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 08:11
Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ What city are you in?

I'm not sure it is of any necessity to mention that now, honestly. Not in Kiev or Kharkiv, though. Not far from Kiev, southwards. 

Hi, 

It's the first time I see you.

What would you do in place of Zelenskij?
Amos Goldberg (professor of Genocide Studies at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem): Yes, it's genocide. It's so difficult and painful to admit it, but we can no longer avoid this conclusion.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 10:48
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

I agree with the opinion of Mao Valpiana:

Letter of THE PRESIDENT OF THE ITALIAN NONVIOLENT MOVEMENT


Dear Gad Lerner, Luigi Manconi, Adriano Sofri, Emma Bonino* [*Italian left-wings politicians or journalists],
I immediately get to the point that divides us today: "weapons yes / no weapons" from the EU to Ukraine.
I am writing to you because, unlike most of the Italian commentators who mock pacifism by making a caricature of it, I know that you consider it, for common friendship and sensitivity, and because you have motivated your choice also in reference to Gandhi who, in front of a abuse, between sloth and violence says that the latter is preferable. But the Mahatma chooses the third way, that of the nonviolence of the strong. At stake are principles and practice, ends and means, philosophy and politics. This type of nonviolent pacifism has two requirements: ethics and effectiveness.

Let's start with effectiveness. We do not know which "lethal" weapons are sent, because they are covered by military secrecy. However, we know how much they cost (up to now one billion euros), already paid to the war industry with funds advanced by the "ecological transition" (the Italian fund of 100 million taken from "cooperation"), therefore it is a conversion from civilian to military . Will these weapons reach the Ukrainian regular army, or will they be intercepted by the growing paramilitary "territorial defense" militias, even with mercenaries arriving from abroad? Were the lessons from Libya and Afghanistan not enough for us, where Western weapons ended up in the hands of rival gangs or the Taliban, with the consequences we know? And are we sure that these weapons will be able to make a difference in terms of military capacity, firepower, or will it not be necessary to continually raise the bar, in the military logic that wins those who have the most lethal weapons, up to the extreme consequences? (starting from the recruitment of child soldiers, up to the threat from the West of tactical nuclear weapons?).
Indeed, this is the point that makes today's war different from all others: the nuclear threat. This is the situation that, in the aftermath of the Cuban missile crisis, Pope John XXIII configured in Pacem in Terris: "In a time like ours, which prides itself on atomic power, it is alien to any reason that war can be used as a tool to restore violated rights ". Many military observers also argue that the dispatch of new weapons increases the danger of uncontrolled escalation and further postpones the possibility of a successful deal.

And we come to ethics. The Constituents [the fathers of the Italian Constitution] intended to ban (repudiate) armed intervention (war) as a means of resolving international disputes even when the controversy has taken on the character of an armed conflict. Our Constitution does not deny the "natural right of individual or collective self-protection in the event of an armed attack against a member of the United Nations" enshrined in the United Nations Charter, but reiterates what the UN Charter itself requires: "The Members they must resolve their international disputes by peaceful means, so that international peace and security, and justice, are not endangered ”. It is in this context that the problem of sending weapons to a nation undergoing armed aggression must be considered. Condemning the aggression and supporting the just reasons of that nation does not automatically mean that one must intervene militarily in that context. If so, weapons should be provided to all peoples fighting for their sovereignty, such as the Palestinians whose territories have been illegally occupied by Israel for decades. It is not done because sending weapons always configures a situation of belligerence.

Zelenskii has decided to take the path of armed defense: "better to die on your feet than to live on your knees". We say that the third way must be sought: "living standing". All this certainly requires helping those who are resisting, but with what defense? Other voices that come to us from Kiev must also be listened to. Like that of Yurii Sheliazhenko, national referent of the Ukrainian peace movement who told us about the dispatch of weapons: "Madness! It is fueling escalation and bloodshed. The international media are manipulated by the war machine. There is a need for international pressure for a ceasefire and to arrive at a real negotiation ". It is also urgent to support, finance, strengthen the growing movement of Russian conscientious objectors, and the mothers of soldiers who oppose the call of conscripts, to weaken Putin on the domestic front.
All the nonviolent instruments must be put in place to reach as soon as possible the "Ceasefire" - which is bilateral and is not the surrender of one party - and promote real negotiations (for which the Vatican is also working). Trade sanctions against Russia are important, but not sufficient measures. We need a qualitative leap in the rationale of nonviolent struggle which is "to take the first step first". In concrete terms, this means promoting military de-escalation, starting now to do what had to be done before: withdrawing the nuclear bombs present in the European territory by dismantling the "nuclear sharing"; recall the NATO military contingents recently sent to Eastern Europe, and hold an international conference under the aegis of the United Nations putting the compromise of neutral Ukraine on the table.
Since the fall of the Berlin Wall we have supported the transformation of NATO from a military alliance to an alliance for security and cooperation. Since 1995 we have advanced proposals and operational projects for the constitution of the international police (European civil peace corps), with professional training for peace operators and mediators, who could have intervened preventively in the Donbass crisis, and which today could be a real force of de-escalation and field intervention. Instead of further increasing the military budgets of individual states, as decided at Versailles, those funds should be used to lay the foundations today for the European defense of tomorrow, creating the international police that is still missing. Is unilateral disarmament a pious illusion? I have no certainties, nonviolence has many ifs and many buts.
However, I know that two historical anti-fascists, who participated in the Resistance, such as Aldo Capitini and Carlo Cassola, came to this political choice and made it the mission of their lives and I think of the nonviolent pacifism of our mutual friend Alex Langer ("A movement for the peace that was made mainly of condemnation of certain military aggressions, but from which no concrete effect derives, would not have great credibility. I am convinced that today the research and development sector of nonviolence must take great steps forward "). And I also know that when Mikhail Gorbachev took the first step of unilateral disarmament it came, for the first time in history, to the 1987 Treaty which dismantled 2,700 Russian and American nuclear missiles, putting an end to the Cold War. Perhaps this is the right way. Between enlisting for war or preaching surrender, there is the third way of active nonviolence. 

Mao Valpiana, president of the Nonviolent Movement

I wholeheartedly agree with Mr. Mao Valpiana...
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 11:56
As Valpaiana mentions anti-fascists from the Resistance, I have in mind that Hitler was not stopped by non-violence, and neither by opponents in Germany.
Sure, Putin is not Hitler, however finding a peaceful solution on the basis of non-violence and disarmament needs to assume/trust that the other side respects non-violence rather than being encouraged to use violence against those who don't effectively defend themselves. It's hard to have that trust in Putin!
 
Yesterday I read this:
It seems Putin demands disarmament of the Ukraine (obviously without offering anything of that kind for Russia). This does not seem acceptable to me, as it essentially means that he wants to have a state of affairs that makes it easier for the Russians to invade another time (keep in mind that Putin said that the Ukraine doesn't have the right to exist as an independent nation).


Edited by Lewian - March 18 2022 at 11:58
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 18 2022 at 12:23
Originally posted by jamesbaldwin jamesbaldwin wrote:

Originally posted by Woon Deadn Woon Deadn wrote:

Originally posted by Easy Money Easy Money wrote:

^ What city are you in?

I'm not sure it is of any necessity to mention that now, honestly. Not in Kiev or Kharkiv, though. Not far from Kiev, southwards. 

Hi, 

It's the first time I see you.

What would you do in place of Zelenskij?

Hi, Lorenzo. It seems, I have never talked to you personally in this thread (or anywhere else, just for the recordSmile). You see, there's a martial law in Ukraine and one may be sentenced to up to 15 years in prison PLUS a total property confiscation for high treason - it naturally decreases the number of topics and the selection of words a Ukrainian may use in public conversation - even on the Net... Because, you know, the height of the potential treason is a relative thing. The height may swing up and down, depending on many criteria. 

So, trying to pick the correct words, I can answer this way: Mr. Zelensky has little experience of ruling the country, he is an actor deep inside his mind. He is behaving like an actor. He probably imagines himself a character in the patriotic movie, he feels like that. He gave a speech like Chaplin's character in The Great Dictator. He loves movies, he loves classic Soviet movies. He has a charming wife. Both he and his wife are evidently educated persons, they are University graduates. What would, say, Adriano Celentano or Louis De Funes do in such a situation we're talking about? Since they were actors, they would have probably played some kind of cinematic role in the real life. The role according to what they had watched, read, played themselves before. You see, the current situation is very helpful for Mr. Zelensky's political career. Quite like all of his predecessors in Ukraine, he was seen as a prodigy at the time of elections, then since two months later and on he was continuously condemned by both sides of the political spectrum. The anti-Russian part of Ukrainian society constantly blamed him for the absence of directly anti-Russian activities, the pro-Russian part of Ukrainian voters constantly blamed him for flirting with Europe and the USA. His ratings of popularity were extremely low at best. Here, suddenly he is becoming one of the greatest heroes in the country, and beyond. The current situation is very useful for his further political career. He will definitely become the next president of Ukraine - if the country survives as a sovereign entity. 

What would I do, you're asking? 
First of all, I am very different from him. I have never been a big fan of his troupe's comedy show. Their humour was very far from what Monty Python did... Principally far.  (I'm not even saying that their show made a few - at least, four - openly homophobic sketches, hinting at the bullying of male gays. Also, btw, in one of his sketches like ten-twelve years ago he told from the stage that Ukraine should not join NATO...) 
I am a very different person. I don't think I would have ever liked the idea of participating in the Presidential elections in Ukraine as the candidate. I have never participated in them even as the voter, after all. I suppose, Mr. Zelensky is much more naive than me, much more idealistic than me. Again, I can suppose his favourite Chaplin's movie is indeed The Great Dictator - mine is Modern Times, The Great Dictator is too artificially elongated as for me, too theatrical. Mr. Zelensky is the man of theatre, by his nature, I believe. I am a real life man, man of the comedy movies. I prefer comedies only. I don't like theatre plays. I don't believe in theatre or classical music. I believe only in parody movies, speaking of cinematography. 

Second, I like to tell, to explain. I would have definitely published a book or four or more - at least, in Russian - where I would have described my view of the world, and everything else. Unlike many other politicians who publish something, I would have written all those texts myself and only myself, basing it on my personal experience. I would have promoted my books, my views all over the country. Since it was written in Russian, I would have given (maybe even for free) those my works to the neighbouring countries where pretty everybody can read Russian texts. The materialist ideals are promoted by selling and consumption, the hardly-material ideals are promoted by permanent talking and reading. Whether we like Lenin or Stalin, their numerous volumes of works helped in promoting their ideals incomparably greater than one book by Hitler. 

Third, I think that the man in his late 30s and on, should already have firm beliefs. I haven't observed any adamant set of emerald beliefs in Mr. Zelensky. Now as we have a war and a martial law, I certainly see them - but before that I haven't seen them in that brave man. 

I believe that Mr. Zelensky was a man with really good intentions, really hoping to make his country's people's lives better. However, the country that he has got is very complex, and he was not that complex for ruling it. He hadn't got that schizophrenic, Pythonesque string inside the harp of his brains and heart along with the comprehension of the necessity to talk and write on his views constantly. He wasn't prepared for such a complex work. Now, hopefully, everything gets fine, ends nice - he is learning how to deal with it all. 
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