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Lewian View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lewian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 19 2023 at 19:23
@siLLy puPPy: I'm really not interested in whether you miscommunicated or not, and I didn't say you did. I only wrote "Maybe in such a case it is nicer to wonder first whether you may have communicated something in an unclear manner (or to not assign blame to anyone)" which in my world does *not* mean that you actually did it. My point really was to choose politeness over obsessing who's right and who's wrong here.

Edited by Lewian - March 19 2023 at 19:25
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 03:13
Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:


All I can say is, when people quote a post in their reply,  I reckon they respond concerning this post, and you quoted my post to Mosh.


OK, let's examine your post.

"I'd like to say to you, Mosh, and not for the first time, that even I don't always find you very constructive, I think there's some good reason and very good intentions in many of your opinions."

First of all, my name isn't Mosh. That could be interpreted as an insult right off the bat.
But that's obviously because this post wasn't adressed to you!

-or is this a joke I'm not getting because english is not my native language?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote David_D Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 06:10
Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

All I can say is, when people quote a post in their reply,  I reckon they respond concerning this post, and you quoted my post to Mosh.
OK, let's examine your post.

"I'd like to say to you, Mosh, and not for the first time, that even I don't always find you very constructive, I think there's some good reason and very good intentions in many of your opinions."

First of all, my name isn't Mosh. That could be interpreted as an insult right off the bat.

But that's obviously because this post wasn't adressed to you!

-or is this a joke I'm not getting because english is not my native language?

Exactly!, siLLy puPPy, "Mosh" as short for Moshkito, so it's just a big misunderstanding. 

I do also find your first reply to Saperlipopette! to be not only rude but a bit racistic too, but let's just forget the whole thing, as I know, you're much better than that.


Edited by David_D - March 20 2023 at 08:01
                      quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond
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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 06:46
Can I request that people stop all of this back and forth, it's clearly a communication misunderstanding. Let's get this back the the actual thread subject matter. I don't want to have to clean up this thread if at all possible. 

Thanks
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https://podcasts.progrock.com/post-avant-jazzcore-happy-hour/
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 09:56
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Can I request that people stop all of this back and forth, it's clearly a communication misunderstanding. Let's get this back the the actual thread subject matter. I don't want to have to clean up this thread if at all possible. 

Thanks
It was (mostly) fun while it lasted, but in regards to the actual subject matter I suspect it has run its course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote essexboyinwales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 10:06
I’d go with a mix of a few old, a few less old and a few modern (as others have done):

Genesis - Selling England By The Pound
Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here
Mike Oldfield - Tubular Bells
IQ - Ever
Marillion - Misplaced Childhood
It Bites - Once Around The World
Pendragon - Not Of This World
Anathema - Weather Systems
Ayreon- The Human Equation
Devin Townsend - Empath
Nightwish - Endless Forms Most Beautiful
Cellar Darling - The Spell

Edited by essexboyinwales - March 20 2023 at 10:07
Heaven is waiting but waiting is Hell
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 10:13
^Thank you, essexboyinwales. I'm happy to be proven wrong just ten minutes later:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cosmiclawnmower Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 14:44
Likewise, some older, some (relatively) more recent. And lps that, for me at least, encapsulate the breadth of (many) genre(s) covered by the term 'Progressive'

Anglagard- Hybris
Barclay James Harvest- Live
Can- Future Days
Camel- Mirage
Eloy- Ocean
Family- Music from a doll's house
Genesis- Foxtrot
Harper, Roy- HQ
Holderlin- Traumstadt Live
IQ- Tales from the Lush Attic
Jethro Tull- Songs from the Wood
King Crimson- Larks Tongue in Aspic
Mona Lisa- Avant qu'il ne soit trop tard
Magma- Mekanïk Destruktïẁ Kommandöh
Oldfield, Mike- Ommadawn
Ozric Tentacles- Spice Doubt
PFM- Per un Amico
Rundgren, Todd- A Wizard, a true star
Strawbs, the - From the Witchwood
Twelfth Night- Fact and Fiction
Univers Zero- 1313
Van der graaf generator- Godbluff
Wobbler- From Silence to Somewhere
XTC- English Settlement
Yes- The Yes album
Zappa, Frank- One size fits all

Sorry, i think thats probably more than allowed but i'd dump those lps in the lap of anyone interested and say 'work your way through that lot'.. it might be a bit of a 'kill or cure' momentWink




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Archisorcerus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 15:04
Lots of good suggestions here. A "starter" can also use YouTube for commencement in his/her adventure/discovery. Find a prog song there and play it, and then who knows, perhaps the next random (or not so random) song that YT brings is your thing!

I'll not offer a "kit" here, as the previous contributions seem sufficient. Yet, I can recommend a special album for me.

I wanna mention, Saens - Escaping from the Hands of God.

This French band is put within the Neo-Prog sub-genre here. EftHoG is an important album for me in that it served as/like a bridge between the classic (read it as classic symphonic) prog and modern prog. Prior to listening to this one, my indulgence with the "ancient" prog had been... superficial.

Here's its grand/epic opening song:


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 22:36
Originally posted by Cosmiclawnmower Cosmiclawnmower wrote:


Sorry, i think thats probably more than allowed but i'd dump those lps in the lap of anyone interested and say 'work your way through that lot'.. it might be a bit of a 'kill or cure' momentWink

That's ok. Even I, who started all this ended up doubling my Starter Kit - and I felt much better after having done so:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Big Sky Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 20 2023 at 23:22
I'm going with what I believe are accessible albums for a total newbie and break them in gradually:

1) Supertramp - Crime of the Century
2) Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
3) Rush - Moving Pictures
4) Jethro Tull - Aqualung
5) Kansas - Leftoverture
6) Yes - Yes Album
7) Steven Wilson - The Raven That Refused to Sing
8) Camel - The Snow Goose
9) Genesis - A Trick of the Tail
10) Emerson Lake and Palmer - Trilogy

If they get through those 10 and are still on board:

1) Yes - Close to the Edge
2) Genesis - Selling England by the Pound
3) Gentle Giant - Three Friends
4) King Crimson - Red
5) UK - UK
6) ELP - Brain Salad Surgery
7) Steven Wilson - Grace for Drowning
8) Big Big Train - Underfall Yard
9) Echolyn - Suffocating the Bloom
10) Frank Zappa - The Grand Wazoo
11) Caravan - In the Land of Grey and Pink
12) Mahavisnu Orchestra - Birds of Fire
13) Plini - Impulse Voices

A Bakers Dozen. Never much cared for Krautrock, Neo-Prog can be covered by the symphonic prog, not to familiar with Italian Prog outside of PFM , who could easily have an album listed. Post Rock, Math Rock and Tech Metal I've listened too, but don't feel strongly enough on any of it to recommend anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Boojieboy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2023 at 13:59
I'd ask the person first what they already listen to, then locate Prog. that is as close to that as possible, for starters. Try to work off their existing likes, rather than bombard them with my likes and preferences.

Edited by Boojieboy - March 22 2023 at 14:00
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2023 at 14:00
Originally posted by Boojieboy Boojieboy wrote:

I'd ask the person first what they already listen to, then locate Prog. that is as close to that as possible, for starters. Try to work off their existing likes, rather than bombard them with my likes and preferences.

good point, I agree. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2023 at 14:29
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Boojieboy Boojieboy wrote:

I'd ask the person first what they already listen to, then locate Prog. that is as close to that as possible, for starters. Try to work off their existing likes, rather than bombard them with my likes and preferences.

good point, I agree. Thumbs Up

Then force them to listen to KC's "moonchild" on a loop for the next eight hours. LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rick1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 22 2023 at 21:50
Well, this was my 'starter kit':

ELP - Tarkus
Genesis - Selling England
Gong - Camembert Electrique
Hatfield and the North - The Rotter's Club
Hawkwind - Masters of the Universe
Henry Cow - In Praise of Learning
Jethro Tull- Songs From The Wood
Pink Floyd - Dark Side
Yes - Relayer
Frank Zappa - One Size Fits All
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2023 at 00:03
^Wow really? With a little help from your friends - or all by yourself?

I don't think I ever had anything resembling a starter kit myself. Or maybe I did. Pink Floyd was in my parents record collection, so they were just always there. Differnt friends introduced me to The Residents, Swans, Dead Can Dance around the same time + someone brought a C60 containing the studio sides of Living in the Past on a school bus trip. Needless to say I did not connect the dots. It was just different kinds of interesing music that sounded all new and exiting to me. At the same time I used the music section in the library almost daily, and I borrowed and copied things I had heard about - and not heard about. Everything from Nursery Cryme and In Search of the Lost Chord to Steve Reich, Gamelan Music, Eastern European Folk, Medieval and Renaissance music... And at my local record shop I could easily find and buy used LP's of Kraftwerk, Gentle Giant, King Crimson, Tangerine Dream etc. for next to nothing. So I did. It did not take long before I understood that a handful of these finds were considered Prog Rock - a ridiculous anachronism from the 1970's that thankfully punk had killed off. But I still loved it, and failed to understand what was wrong about skills and ambition. "Three chords and the truth" had never appealed to me anyway.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2023 at 22:37
Older guy: "Let's see how many I can find on cd or vinyl."

Younger guy: "Let's see how many I can find on youtube."

Tongue
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dapper~Blueberries Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 14 2023 at 13:44
How I make my starter kit is based on less of what is the prog "essentials" but what album do newbies of prog should check out first.

1. Dark Side Of The Moon - Pink Floyd: Cliche pick I know but can you blame me for picking this. Pink Floyd is one of the most accessible prog rock bands ever, and Dark Side is like one of those albums that can introduce someone to prog pretty smoothly. I also think it is a great introduction as it can introduce someone to these conceptual albums, and its suite-like nature can smoothly allow someone to get accustomed to the longer songs prog rock employs. 

2. Nursery Cryme - Genesis: Most people would choose Selling England By The Pound as the Genesis record for new prog fans, and while that album is amazing, I think Nursery Cryme fits this beginner prog boat a lot more, simply due to the fact I feel like it can really get people into this more pastoral--symphonic prog sound, and with The Musical Box, it can also showcase the longer stretches of music, which is a very big constant in progressive rock in general. Plus it is pretty short, just under 40 minutes. I would've chosen Trick Of The Tail instead but I am more of a Gabriel head than a Collins head so my biases got the better of me.

3. The Yes Album - Yes: I think The Yes Album, compared to many of Yes' endeavors in the 70s with their long epics and suites, is a lot more accessibly streamlined and prominent to me. I would've gone for Fragile instead, but I think Fragile has a lot of these weird moments that could become a turn off to anyone looking to get into prog that The Yes Album doesn't quite have.

4. Misplaced Childhood - Marillion: I think Misplaced Childhood kinda fits the same shoes as Dark Side with it being a more conceptual album with a suite-like structure to it, but the reason I chose it here is for the pop fans out there. I mean, while this may not be the most poppy album out there with tracks like Blind Curve and Bitter Suite, I think for what it is worth it does contain some of the band's most lovable pop hits like Kayleigh and Lavender, which I think can really help those pop-heads who are looking to get into prog to get into it smoothly.

5. In Keeping Secrets Of Silent Earth 3 - Coheed and Cambria: I think modern prog deserves some love in the grand scheme of things, so this next half is more modern stuff, starting with In Keeping Secrets Of Silent Earth 3. Where Misplaced Childhood is for the pop-heads, Silent Earth 3 is for those alt rock and emo kids who find some interest in progressive rock. I think Coheed and Cambria is a perfect band for this as their music is very clearly alt and emo rock, but they have many proggy songs, especially on here, that make them perfect for those who are into stuff like My Chemical Romance and or Paramore.

6. Images and Words - Dream Theater: When talking about prog, you kinda have to talk about Dream Theater at least once. For this starter kit I decided to choose Images and Words, for the fact that it is a great introduction piece for those to get into prog metal, and more over prog rock.

7. Let's Start Here. - Lil Yachty: Now you might ask, why an album made by a hip hop artist? Well, I think with the psych rock and space rock frontiers Lil Yachty composes here that takes clear inspiration from Pink Floyd and many other psych/space rock bands (You can hear it on The Black Seminole), I feel like this album can be great to showcase prog rock, or in fact, reinvigorate prog to the masses, and in fact, I actually consider this album to be a prog album. I feel like this record, plus Coldplay's Coloratura and Taylor Swift's 10 minute version of All Too Well can be a spark in the waters for a new wave of prog rock popularity, more than the world has ever seen in this modern age, and so that is why I am adding it to this starter kit, for its great music, and the hope it can introduce many new and young music fans to seek out more of this type of music.

8. Polygondwanaland - King Gizzard And The Lizard Wizard: I feel like I could add any King Gizz release here, but I am choosing Polygondwanaland since it is the most overtly prog rock release. I think what makes this album good for beginners is actually the shorter songs on here. Sure the 10 minute Crumbling Castle is here, but most of the album is relatively short, with songs 2-3 minutes in length, and I think that can allow people to easily get into progressive rock without having to worry about long lengths. In fact I'd say this, Dark Side, and Misplaced Childhood are like the perfect prog albums for beginners in the genre.

Now I would add more but I want this starter kit to be relatively small.
D~B
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Saperlipopette! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2023 at 01:03
^An interesting list. 
Originally posted by Dapper~Blueberries Dapper~Blueberries wrote:

7. Let's Start Here. - Lil Yachty: Now you might ask, why an album made by a hip hop artist? Well, I think with the psych rock and space rock frontiers Lil Yachty composes here that takes clear inspiration from Pink Floyd and many other psych/space rock bands (You can hear it on The Black Seminole), I feel like this album can be great to showcase prog rock, or in fact, reinvigorate prog to the masses, and in fact, I actually consider this album to be a prog album. I feel like this record, plus Coldplay's Coloratura and Taylor Swift's 10 minute version of All Too Well can be a spark in the waters for a new wave of prog rock popularity, more than the world has ever seen in this modern age, and so that is why I am adding it to this starter kit, for its great music, and the hope it can introduce many new and young music fans to seek out more of this type of music.
Because of all the hype I checked out Let's Start Here just after its release. I did find sonically interesting things going on. Certainly in a different league compared the generic bubblegum trap/pop rap I had previously heard by him. But how anyone can listen to Lil Yachty's heavily autotuned voice for more than a couple of songs, is beyond me. Unappealing and distracting to my ears. That's just me I guess. Maybe you're right. But it's frustrating as it sounds like there's a decent singing voice buried there.

-I have higher hopes for artists such as Billie Eilish and Lana Del Rey than Taylor Swift. I find them to be more adventrous and willing to experiment than the latter artist. I got a lot of respect for Taylor, but she rarely engages me personally. She's probably the biggest star in the world right now, so it's nice in itself that she releases a ten minute long single - that goes all the way to no. 1. All to Well is still just a very long song to my ears. Well crafted modern pop, but I don't really see it doing much for modern prog. For a generation that hardly even listen to "normal rock" anymore, I think the foreign sound of prog is a bigger obstacle than song length. I don't expect Taylor to release anything that exites musically me the way... say... 30th or A&W does.

Lastly I would select the same Genesis and King Gizzard-albums as you did.



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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Psychedelic Paul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: April 15 2023 at 09:26
An ideal prog starter kit for Christmas.



CD 1

1. Curved Air - Vivaldi - 14:04
2. Caravan - For Richard - 13:04
3. Barclay James Harvest - Mockingbird - 7:26
4. Rick Wakeman - Journey to the Centre of the Earth - 18:22
5. Family - The Weaver's Answer - 4:48
6. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Take a Pebble - 6:42
7. John Wetton - Red - 6:26

CD 2

1. Barclay James Harvest - Poor Man's Moody Blues - 7:10
2. John Wetton - Starless - 9:46
3. Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Barbarian - 5:06
4. Focus - House of the King - 2:41
5. Van der Graaf Generator - Theme One - 4:03
6. Focus - Hocus Pocus Medley - 13:31
7. Karnataka - Heaven Can Wait - 4:50
8. Mostly Autumn - Mother Nature - 13:13
9. Nektar - Damnation Valley - 9:00


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - April 15 2023 at 09:36
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