*I'll come back with my own list of suggestions soon, but it's not ready yet.

**If you need to fill in a spesific band and/or track to get going, just let us know what you've chosen as your reference, starting point. 

ELP - Tarkus

Yes - Fragile

Pink Floyd - Dark Side Of The Moon

Camel - Mirage

PFM - Per Un Amico

Rush - 2112

Marillion - Misplaced Childhood

Dream Theater - Images and Words

Anglagard - Hybris

Big Big Train - English Electric Part One

Porcupine Tree - In Absentia

not over thinking this and also this doesn't include many sub genres of prog such as Krautrock, Rio, Avant etc (and no Genesis!)

Barclay James Harvest - Live 1974

Camel - Moonmadness

ELP - Works Volume I

Genesis - Selling England by the Pound

Jethro Tull - Living in the Past

King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King

The Moody Blues - Days of Future Passed

Mike Oldfield - Ommadawn

Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon

Procol Harum - Procol Harum

Renaissance - Ashes Are Burning

To me it really depends who's asking, but I don't mind if people post a list they think could work for just about anyone.

ELP - Trilogy

King Crimson - Starless and Bible Black

Yes - Close to the Edge

Genesis - Foxtrot

Pink Floyd - Dark side of the moon

Jethro Tull - Thick as a Brick

Spock's Beard - Beware of Darkness

Änglagård - Viljans Öga

Queen - Night at the Opera

Gryphon - Red Queen to Gryphon Three

Steve Hackett - Voyage of the Acolyte

Focus - Moving Waves

King Crimson - Larks Tongues In Aspic

Jethro Tull - Aqualung

Genesis - SEBTP

ELP - BSS

Quite a lot of work if to take it seriously, but indeed interesting and a good challenge - I'll think about it. 

A very good alternative I see here is Univers Zero's Clivages. 

I find this approach very good.

It's where I started when I first came here. 

If you stick to one album per band that way you get

Yes - CTTE

Genesis - SEBTP

Pink Floyd - WYWH

King Crimson - ITCOTCK

Jethro Tull - TAAB

VDGG - Godbluff

Camel - Mirage

PFM - Per Un Amico

Rush - Moving Pictures

Banco - Darwin

Anglagard - Hybris

Frank Zappa - Hot Rats

Maybe not diverse enough but a pretty good starting point.

The 2nd 12 gets you a lot more diversity (I'll skip Miles Davis - Kind Of Blue)

Gentle Giant - In A Glass House

Harmonium - Si on avait besoin d'une cinquième saison

Wobbler - From Silence To Somewhere

Mahavishnu Orchestra - Birds Of Fire

Renaissance - Scheherazade and Other Stories

Caravan - In The Land Of Grey and Pink

Dream Theater - Metropolis Part 2 Scenes from a Memory

Museo Rosenbach - Zarathustra

Supertramp - Crime Of The Century

Steve Wilson - The Raven Who Refused To Sing

Mike Oldfield - Ommandawn

Opeth - Still Life

Still missing Krautrock, Electronic, Post/Math Rock but pretty good stareter

Great list but no idea how you can do an introduction to a noob without Yes or Genesis. They are the only 2 of the Big 6 who are never debated.

The same approach for me too. I made sure to include an album by each of the recognised "Big Six" of British Prog, although  not necessarily my favourite album by each artist. Obviously, I would've chosen The Quest as my favourite YES album, although I realise it's not everyone's favourite (or even anyone's favourite) YES album and is not representative of their work as a whole. In retrospect, maybe 90125 would've been a better choice of album for a PA Starter Kit than Going for the One, as the 90125 album was my introduction to YES. 

Have to say Paul that your definition of diversity and mine must be quite different if you think adding BJH, Camel, The Moody Blues, Procol Harum & Renaissance to the Big 6 covers the broad church of prog. 

I wasn't aiming to be diverse by covering a broad church of prog. I was simply choosing the twelve most accessible albums that would most likely appeal to a prog neophyte, and not entirely by coincidence, they were pretty much the same twelve "Starter Kit" prog albums that most appealed to me when I was first introduced to the wonderful world of prog. 

https://metalstorm.net/users/list.php?list_id=58" rel="nofollow - https://metalstorm.net/users/list.php?list_id=58

Nogbad_The_Bad wrote: Cristi wrote: even exploring the TOP PROG ALBUMS (100 chart) is a good start.  It's where I started when I first came here.

Yes one could do far worse. I do think the list of top prog albums here is quite decent. Better than just about every attemnt I've seen in music magazines - or similar publications.

-More importantly I've enjoyed looking at all your suggestions.

1. Genesis - Selling England by the Pound (my intro, Dancing with the Moonlit Night is such a good way to begin your journey)

2. Yes - Fragile (the intro and immensity of CTTE make it not my first choice but should come soon after one's ear gets accustomed to prog)

3. Rush - Moving Pictures 

4. Pink Floyd - Wish You Were Here (Welcome to the Machine, the huge Shine On suite, more proggy than Dark Side which everyone has heard anyway)

5. Queensryche - Operation Mindcrime (IMO the most important seed of Prog Metal)

6. Dream Theater - Images and Words (I prefer awake but this is the definitive true start of Prog Metal as a genre)

7. Opeth - Ghost Reveries (Ghost of Perdition is IMO their peak achievement)

8. Khan - Space Shanty (accessible enough to be the perfect entry point to Canterbury)

9. Ash Ra Tempel - Ash Ra Tempel (simultaneously the best psych jam album and a great entry to Krautrock)

10. Devin Townsend - Ocean Machine (I could pick several but this one is best top to bottom)

11. Animals as Leaders - Joy of Motion (The best album by the Prototype for an entire genre)

12. Return to Forever - Romantic Warrior (not my favorite or best fusion album but I think the best entry point)

I know this is metal heavy but that's me, and I know it misses a lot of great artists that could have been on the list. But would get a newbie well started IMO. e.g. I don't think King Crimson is a great entry point in spite of their historic importance but would be a must as one moves deeper. 

Yeah I like this list a lot.

       I could of course not keep away from here.

My list is a compromise between the most appreciated (both on PA and RYM), less advanced and my own preferences. 

It covers "The Big Eight" classics, some more modern and the main sub-genres if Progressive Rock is seen as a meta-genre.

But all that could not be done only with a dozen albums  :

Grumpyprogfan wrote: Could anyone explain how and/or why a noob to prog would listen to, and not lose interest, during the eight minute freaky jam part of "Moonchild" from the first KC album? I don't think any noob would enjoy that.

Most music interested people love In the Court quite instantly. Probably because 80% of that album is a timeless delight packed with rawness, emotion and beatuiful melodies that gives context to that freaky jam. By the time it appears "everyone" is already sold. And as the album ends with the iconic title track all is forgiven anyway. In the Court has proven itself through the decades to speak to new generations like basically no other classic prog album does. It's one of the few prog albums that's just as popular outside progcircles  - and holds an alltime fourth place at the internet's biggest music site RYM (with a 4.31 rating from 55 000 raters). Only the far more conventional Pink Floyd albums in the PA's top ten can match it.

I think your baker's dozen would have worked wonders for someone who came from a sort of alternative rock/pop. Or maybe jazz/modern classical.

Saperlipopette! wrote: I know this would have worked perfectly for a mini-me:). Heavy on the oldies, I know. But the 1970’s is a great place to start imo. All albums are in PA’s top 105. King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King Genesis - Nursery Cryme Yes - Close to the Edge Pink Floyd - Meddle Jethro Tull - Aqualung Van Der Graaf Generator - H to He Who Am the Only One Gong - You PFM - Storia Di Un Minuto Frank Zappa - Hot Rats Tangerine Dream - Rubycon Tool - Lateralus Opeth - Blackwater Park

if I allowed myself an additional dozen too, I'd probably try and push the noob a bit further down the rabbit hole and add something like:

Miles Davis - In a Silent Way
Magma - Kobaïa
Can - Future Days
Camel - Mirage
Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom
Kraftwerk - Die Mensch-Maschine
Kate Bush - Hounds of Love
Dead Can Dance - Within the Realm of a Dying Sun
Talk Talk - Laughing Stock
Tortoise - Millions Now Living Will Never Die
Godspeed You Black Emperor! - Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven!
Radiohead - Kid A

Grumpyprogfan wrote: ^Appreciate the reply. I didn't love In the Court instantly. I still don't. Only the first and last songs of that album appeal to me. I've been learning for 47 years that most popular prog is not for me.

Nothing speaks to everyone. And most of what I listen to, is "unpopular". Already in early my teens I started digging backwards for music from the past. I was pretty much alone in listening to all this music a couple of decades old, and actually preferring it to what was new, or modern if you will. I'm more "modern" now than ever before actually. Different as we are, anoyone who selects Frank Zappa, National Health, Gentle Giant, Jethro Tull and Steely Dan-albums for his extended prog starter kit, is closer to my tastes than most people I meet during a regular week - or month.

Useless !

Sorry, but I'm a bit more precise than you are.

Grumpyprogfan wrote: Could anyone explain how and/or why a noob to prog would listen to, and not lose interest, during the eight minute freaky jam part of "Moonchild" from the first KC album? I don't think any noob would enjoy that.

That's why I choose Starless and Bible Black.

But to support your comment, it would be like picking Tale From Topographic Oceans for Yes, not doing the movement any favour by using that to support your case.

 I did notice the "I was simply choosing the twelve most accessible albums" comment in Paul's post. My approach was more in the OP's hypothetical noob's question.

 "suggest a dozen albums for me that you think will give this total noob the perfect introduction to this Prog Rock-thing?"

All that being said, I made this short list several years ago with the newbie in mind (before I realized the newcomer might not take to the classics):

I might actually toss in a few others though such as:

Porcupine Tree - In Absentia

Marillion - Misplaced Childhood

Gentle Giant - Octopus

Anglagard - Hybris

VDGG - Pawn Hearts

Or maybe not at all. That list looks like it's mostly metal and mostly a newer prog list. Certain bands aren't considered "cool" to the younger crowd. Yes = not cool. KC = cool. 

Those three albums would definitely put me off prog for life if they were my introduction to prog. 

I agree. That one seems to be about 80% prog metal.

you could have said you disliked the list without being rude. 

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: Someone mentioned that rate your music is the internets biggest music site. I thought the biggest one was this place!  Seriously, I thought the biggest one was allmusic.

Allmusic* once was the biggest, but not anymore. Metal Archives is about as big as them by now aand it's got 1/3rd the amount of total visits compared to RYM.

-Now that I actually checked the stats, Discogs is (obviously) the biggest one, Last FM second with RYM third. But I did mean the biggest community based/user driven site - similar to PA. Discogs is more about cataloging and selling/buying, far less about reviews/ratings/lists - and discussions. Last FM is... I don't really know. You can look at what people have been listening to during the last month, or something like that? No one goes there to read reviews or look at all time charts etc...RYMs by quite some distance the biggest iMDB-like site for music (but much  better).

*+Allmusic got reviewers on their payroll and their reviews/ratings is the only one visitors will be exposed to if you don' actively seek out user reviews. It's community is hidden and much less active. OK Computer got 1,652 reviews on RYM and 25 on Allmusic.

 

I keep forgetting how unpopular progressive metal is sometimes around here. 

There aren't many albums from the 70s, but there are a few later day prog albums. I thought it was a good list and share it, i was wrong. I see myself out. 

I meant it's unpopular here on PA forum. 

Like I said, there are a few essential prog albums in that list, classic and later day prog. And for anyone who wants to explore the progressive metal genre, a good place to start, that's all. 

Okay, here's my alternative Prog Starter Kit with one album chosen from each of twelve prog sub-genres:-

Agitation Free - Shibuya Nights: Live in Tokyo (Krautrock)

Dream Theater - Images and Words (Progressive Metal)

Jethro Tull - Living in the Past (Prog Folk)

Khan - Space Shanty (Canterbury Scene)

King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King (Eclectic Prog)

Mike Oldfield - Ommadawn (Crossover Prog)

Pallas - The Edge of Time (Neo Prog)

Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (Psychedelic/Space Rock)

Renaissance - Ashes Are Burning (Symphonic Prog)

Santana - Abraxas (Jazz Rock/Fusion)

Tangerine Dream - Stratosfear (Progressive Electronic)

Uriah Heep - Demons and Wizards (Heavy Prog)

These 24 make a very fine compromise between the basic stuff (i.e. generally acclaimed masterpieces) that is needed on such a list and some outstanding things that opened doors to some new worlds of music (or were the greatest treasures found behind such doors) at some points of my life for me personally. Outstanding list... not even sure I can come up with a good list myself that is different enough from this to be worth posting, but I'll try.

OK, in order to not produce too much overlap with what is already there, I choose a different approach. I hope that our noob is up for the raw beauty of live albums (as I am) and has at least as good a probability to be drawn in in this way, so live albums only. This could well have worked for me, particularly also because many of these collect the best tracks of these bands. I follow the very valid approach to represent the Big 6 and two more rather mainstreamish live albums, but then I also show something different just to hint at the broad range of what there is to discover (of course following my own taste) with three albums from the 2000s, two of which are from third millenium bands.

Yes - Yessongs

Genesis - Live

Jethro Tull - Bursting Out

ELP - Welcome Back my Friends to the Show that Never Ends

King Crimson - Radical Action to Unseat the Hold of Monkey Mind

Pink Floyd - Ummagumma, live album

Gentle Giant - Playing the Fool

Renaissance - Live at Carnegie Hall

Cardiacs - All That Glitters is a Mare's Nest

Tangerine Dream - Ricochet

Sigur Ros - Inni

Anekdoten - Waking the Dead

To be honest, I think this is a bit too concept driven in the end, and if it were not for the sake of doing something really different and the noob had only asked me without having seen all the other lists, I may have recommended about 50% live albums, maybe a little below that, but there we go.

actually there is nothing wrong with the top 15 of that list which is quite and nice and balanced, I think if you had specified that it would have helped. Its quite fun though to find gems like Fright Pig - Out Of The Barnyard and It Bites - The Tall Ships further down the ranking amongst all the prog metal 

  Okay, I'd say, that would be a very strong reaction, and maybe you would just think, that kind wasn't your cup of tea.

I didn't even think metal music archives is the biggest metal site. Aren't there metal sites that are bigger?

As for IMDB, it's good for films but it's not a music site. I use it quite a bit though and have no problem with i t.

AFlowerKingCrimson wrote: As for IMDB, it's good for films but it's not a music site.

Uh, no.

What is your "no" to? You don't think it's good? You think rotten tomatoes is so much better?

thank you

The entire site was extremely helpful to me. The charts themselves were a great "start here" both the main chart and then the genre charts. I had no idea what Canterbury or Krautrock were before coming here.

I agree. While this site isn't perfect it's still probably the best online resource for all things prog. So someone brand new to prog should just come on over here and look at the top ten albums then go to youtube to see if they want to purchase some of them (either cd, vinyl, download or streaming). 

There are Metal & Jazz versions of this site.

Thanks. The genre teams attempt to keep this site up-to-date and thus, the best online prog resource.

Well, it's not like there's a lot of competition.  At least not for this kind of forum. There's only one other similar website for prog (at least that I know of) and they do a very good job too but there's a lot more members here and the other site doesn't have a comprehensive database with tons of listings of artists like PA does. 

Which ones are you referring to?

I actually helped a lot when a bunch of PA folks created the metal music archives - but it never seemed to get enough traffic to get the number to make the charts useful. Maybe I need to go back and see if it's still alive and kicking.

How did the jazz version do?

Encyclopedia Metallicum is ok but it's still isn't put together to my taste as well as this.

Starting with the Rate Your Music all time highest voted chart is a much better representation of the world at large than PA actually. This is a niche site that not everyone visits.

The #1 prog rock album of all time on RYM is Pink Floyd's Wish You Were Here.

On RYM it has close to 60,000 ratings whereas PA only has 4433 at the moment

Check out this chart that includes both prog rock and prog metal and it doesn't stop at 250

It will take you through 20 pages that includes the top 2000

http://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/all-time/g:progressive%2drock,progressive%2dmetal/deweight:live,archival,soundtrack/" rel="nofollow - https://rateyourmusic.com/charts/top/album/all-time/g:progressive%2drock,progressive%2dmetal/deweight:live,archival,soundtrack/

Thanks. I hate (!) competition and love there's not a lot of competition! I can attest that PA has a strong independent collaborator basis that keeps the site up to top notch status!

Except from it took for instance me about 30 years as Prog lover to become fond of this album. 

Yes, I think that's a fact.

That's why I don't think In the Court of the Crimson King should be on the list. When you're ready - Lark's Tongues should be your first King Crimson.

Hi,

Sad. For my point of view.

For many of us, in the old days, we didn't ask anyone ... you saw this far out cover and your mind started wondering and you went and listened. Rarely, if ever, did many of us get something because of someone else's thoughts or ideas.

And I certainly think that suggestions, while exceptionally well meaning, are not what you want ... PROGRESSIVE MUSIC came alive because of our imagination AND DESIRE to listen to something else than the pop crap on radio. And that it came with artistic notions and aspects, was a massive bonus ... and this is something that you will not exactly get, or understand, about most of this music.

It's like me telling you that "kraurock" is an art scene, not a rock scene, and you will go ... what's he talking about? ... instead of going to check out the movies, the theater, the artists, the singers, the actors, and the musicians that made it come alive! AND, how, improvisation (mostly a theater exercise btw!!!) was so valuable and important!

If, you have to rely on our suggestions, it kinda makes me feel sad ... we discovered new worlds on our own ... you're not discovering much because you are being told.

Reminds me of that Leunig cartoon, of the proud father showing his son a painting ... and next to it is the window, and the outside? EXACTLY THE SAME as the painting ...

I guess it depends on your curiosity level, which starts with you, not me or anyone else!

^ in the old days you didn't have the internet with the entire history of music at your fingertips.

Asking advice in navigating the millions of albums that have been released since the "old days" is actually quite helpful.

I have expanded my own musical discoveries and weeding out the crap by researching lists and recommendations of others including this site here.

Maybe this person is simply curious as to how everyone will respond!

When you got into your music scenes fifty odd years ago, did you locate all the gems from the 1920's by "going to check out the movies, the theater, the artists, the singers, the actors, and the musicians that made it come alive!"?

No I didn't think so...because 1973 is as long ago today as 1923 is was in 1973. Our fictional teen is mainly curious about music that spoke from the past. Its still alive today and we do get new and exciting incarnations every once in a while. But it's not the same living, vibrant scene and part of the zeitgeist it once was. He or she might as well had asked elsewhere for more Be bop, Hard bop or Post bop after having heard a tune from Speak No Evil. Its a beautiful, beautiful thing how art can speak directly from bygone times to the present era - not sad. And checking out possibly life changing music after advice from someone older and more experienced than yourself, won't change the authencity of a genuine discovery - or the listening experience in itself - in any way. A teenager in 2023 is as about as likely to stumble over Jackie McLean or Grachan Moncur III with your approach as the chances were of you discovering The Yerkes Jazarimba - or Earl Fuller's Rector Novelty Orchestra by yourself back in the early 1970's.

It's just yet another version of Pedro understanding things better than everyone else.

God forbid anyone should ever interact socially and exchange ideas..

Hi,

I can't say that  I feel like I "missed" so many things in the old days ... maybe my ear was acute when it came to music and I heard a lot of it, until I was able to "know" what I needed and wanted.

I suppose that TODAY ... the Internet question makes sense, however, honestly ... where is the spirit of adventure and learning that we started with in the first place?

That's all I'm asking, and getting suggestions is not quite a good idea, since they are not objective to the new listener's vibes ... they are objective to OUR vibes ... and while I have a hundred suggestions, I prefer to not suggest any ... although I have one slight issue ... the selection of an album, instead of a composer ... when we go to look at Beethoven, Mozart, Bach and others we don't check out one song, or one half album, or an album ... and what do we do" Suggest one Ian and the rest ... ? I consider it all a "composition" and many of them are worthy of the idea of "classical music" but we hate that idea it seems like!

richardh wrote: saperlipopette wrote: ... When you got into your music scenes fifty odd years ago, did you locate all the gems from the 1920's by "going to check out the movies, the theater, the artists, the singers, the actors, and the musicians that made it come alive!"? ... [quote-richardh] ...

moshkito wrote: My only hope is that the youngster understand that this is not about "poison" ... it is about something that you have to teach yourself about learning and feeling ... and a suggestion from anyone else is not going to make a difference, other than confusing his mind and thoughts about what "progressive" even is ...

I hope not. 

Well whatever the case you really shouldn't berate someone for asking a question. I mean for a young person who is far removed from the golden years of early prog, why not come to a forum like this to ask people who actually lived at the time? Of course everyone discovers various musical gems on their own exploring but the amount of music on the internet is beyond comprehension. Having some insight as where to navigate by those who have come before is quite helpful. Did you not read music magazines? Go to the record store? Many places don't have music stores any longer so it's ALL on the internet now. Even in the SF Bay Area where i live there are only a small handful of music stores remaining. Remember that.

What makes me unsure here though is how representative that chart can be said to be for proggers, as we don't know how much of the voting is from non-proggers. That can of course be said about the PA top list as well, but I think to a lesser degree.

I have many prog friends who never come to this site. Most of the suggestions i make to this site i found on RYM. In many ways RYM is a much more extensive resource of prog music than PA. The exception i've found is with newer artists which don't seem to make it on RYM. Personally i think the two sites complement each other quite nicely. Wouldn't want either to go away :)

Anyway, what one can do in this context is to say, we're looking at the albums and not the users/music lovers.

And yes, I surely agree that the two sites complement each other very well. 

The strangest thing about this discussion is that the youngster doesn't even exist. It was made up for us to have some fun. Fact!

a sad story

If to compare PA to RYM, I'd say, PA is mostly a site for Progressive Music, while RYM is an all-music site but at the same time can be used more distinctly with regard to Progressive Rock.

Saperlipopette! wrote: ... Yeah so you've told us many times. Here I'm thinking more about some of the 99,99% of the people on earth that didn't grow up in a house with over 1 thousand LP's. ...

Hi,

Then you might have missed the real point, that it is not about the NUMBER of anything (everyone thinks numbers are GOD these days!), as much as it is about your ear/mind learning something about curiosity and finding out for yourself what it is all about.

BTW, funny that you quote a picture that tells you are not quite correct.

Just so you know, the point in "improvisation" is to deconstruct all ideas that you piled up, so you can find new ones.

"So I've told many times ... " ... for me, this is not casting pearls before swine, as my attitude is not malicious like some of the folks that reply here that don't even bother to read anything and reply completely out of context. But an Admin can not say anything since some of them are doing it, as well.

We discovered all this ... from (literally) nothing. So what makes you (and others) think that suggestions are what will help create and find new music?

Ohhh ... I forget ... we're looking at a romantic past in progressive music and we know all the releases now and where they fit!

moshkito wrote: So what makes you (and others) think that suggestions are what will help create and find new music?

Because every single one of us has found suggestions and guidance from knowledgable people to be helpful ourselves. It's just normal human interaction that everyone except you - who are curious, openminded and willing to experience some kind of art* they're yet unfamiliar with, takes part in doing. "Everyone" is not even an exaggeration. This time around your opinons are so absurd it looks like you're trolling - but I know you're not.

*or it travelling somewhere you haven't visited before, visiting a new restaurant, a book by an author you've yet to read - or haven't even heard about...pretty much anything you've yet to do, hear, see, experience, feel...

More accurately RYM is a larger and better maintained site that covers all music across the board. Because of its popularity means it has attracted many more users than PA, MMA or JMA. Many people who like prog bands or albums don't necessarily consider themselves prog fans. Only once you get past the popular crossover artists can you truly say you are a prog aficionado. At least that's my take on it :)

I'd like to say to you, Mosh, and not for the first time, that even I don't always find you very constructive, I think there's some 

good reason and very good intentions in many of your opinions.