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PROGMONSTER2008 
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 Topic: Why Tull? You silly buggers
Posted: November 05 2009 at 17:33 |
A thread started last week has got me thinking and annoyed at Tulls decisions to record about 20 songs in each of 1971 and 1974 and only include half the material on each album from those years. But the annoying part is they chose what i believe to be the only weak songs for the albums plus only 1/3 of the remaining high quality songs. As a listener of mainly prog/fusion from the 1968-1983 period I find it frustrating that such a great band who can write 10 high quality clever, catchy prog related tunes in any given year can choose the weaker material for the album which advertises the band. Just looking at the lists below personally I believe the band purposely wrote some commercial songs for albums for popularity. Normally someone who writes such quality wouldn't write simpler pop songs, but I believe they purposely wrote some simpler music below their natural high standard in the aim at selling to the big population of music listeners. I'm not the only prog fan who was a bit disappointed with Warchild and some of Aqualung because as many can see the quality of alot of the songs they wrote those 2 years and the quality of TAAB is very high. The albums warchild and aqualung don't show tulls true colours, but only in 3-5 songs on each. I would have rather see albums with the best quality songs rather than a mixed bag of tull songs and non tull songs hehe. Here's what I think of 1971 and 1974. Lets see. I'll highlight the ones I really like in bold and the ones i quite like in red. The rest of the songs are ok. But they just don't say much to me in regards to composition. In no particular order I'll list the songs. When you can write so many good songs, I don't see the purpose in writing pop songs unless you are looking for extra popularity. I see Ian the genius writing some songs he probably didn't really enjoy writing. Maybe it's just me. What do you think? 
1971
1-up the pool
2-dr bogenbroom
3-for later
4-wondring again
5-aqualung
6-cross eyed mary
7-up to me
8-wondring aloud
9-cheap day return
10-mother goose
11-life is a long song(remix)
12-lick your fingers clean
13-wind up(quad)
14-locomotive breath(quad)
15-life is a long song
16-nursie
17-my god
18-wind up
19-locomotive breath
20-hymn 43
21-slipstream
1974
1-rainbow blues
2-glory row
3-paradise steakhouse
4-quartet
5-march the mad scientist
6-saturation
7-sealion 2
8-warchild
9-queen and country
10-solitaire
11-skating away
12-warchild waltz
13-back door angels
14-ladies
15-bungle in the jungle(remix)
16-two fingers
17-the third hoorah
18-bungle in the jungle
19-sealion
Edited by PROGMONSTER2008 - November 05 2009 at 17:44
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Atavachron
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Posted: November 05 2009 at 17:49 |
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I agree that many of the bonus cuts are as good as anything on said albums, and that perhaps Aqualung and Warchild could have a bit more consistent if the lesser work had been left out, hard to say.. I do love cuts like 'Paradise Steakhouse', on the other hand I also love 'Hymn 43 and the original 'Sealion'
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PROGMONSTER2008
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Posted: November 05 2009 at 17:55 |
 Atavachron wrote:
I agree that many of the bonus cuts are as good as anything on said albums, and that perhaps Aqualung and Warchild could have a bit more consistent if the lesser work had been left out, hard to say.. I do love cuts like 'Paradise Steakhouse', on the other hand I also love 'Hymn 43 and the original 'Sealion'
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I prefer all 7 bonus tracks on warchild over about 5 of the chosen tracks. I also prefer all the 6 songs remaining from 1971(on LITP) over all the Side 2 songs on Aqualung. If I was making an album I'd put the very best tunes on it. I like Sealion, but some of the lyrics bring it down a touch. Sealion 2, has that Monty Python sillyness to the lyrics that make it more listenable to me and the music is more out there and so true to English prog. Sealion 2 is a ripper to my ears, it's a song about nothing but the great music
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Progologue
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Posted: November 05 2009 at 20:52 |
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Tull could have had super prog albums in 71 and 74. just like 72 and 73 and also 77 and 78. Could have been 5 LP's full of super prog
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TODDLER
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Posted: November 06 2009 at 08:12 |
PROGMONSTER2008 wrote:
Just looking at the lists below personally I believe the band purposely wrote some commercial songs for albums for popularity. Normally someone who writes such quality wouldn't write simpler pop songs, but I believe they purposely wrote some simpler music below their natural high standard in the aim at selling to the big population of music listeners. |
Maybe they did. But that's basically the way in which you toe the line for a record company. Every managment company differs from the next. The communication between a band's manager and the record label in which they are signed to can be an awkward one. Even though many record executives from the mad days were fans of jazz music and were willing to let the bands have freedom of expression, there was still a request from higher ups to write either a mainstream single or simply to write a handfull of attempts. Look at what goes on today. Suzi Creamcheese sits in an office picking out which songs she thinks will hit the top of the toppest most with Metallica fans. So far, she has proven to the label that she can perform an amazing feat and as a result rake in a good fortune. But she is not a musician and her judgements are only for those who suck up the fringe aspects to music. And her and their motives are questionable regarding the promotion of what they consider great music, I consider the rape of the natural art form. I don't even like Metallica but, why should there career be that contrived? Maybe in the early days ELP, Yes, and Genesis had a little more freedom to sound underground progressive however, Roundabout was a single. They all eventually sold out. What could Ian Anderson possibly have done to fight such an unjust action? It was a bit give and take between artist and label in our day. But now, that is dead. What we knew of the music business is now and long been dead. Now it's complete garbage. I agree with your analogy over the Tull songs but, I excuse Ian Anderson from the stand due to the corruption that he was force fed from the industry.
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Vibrationbaby
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Posted: November 06 2009 at 09:59 |
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I don`t think Ian ever sold out. Remember A started out as an Ian Anderson solo album. Then the big shots thought it would do better as a Tull album. The ELP album Love beach was a result of a record boss "suggesting" that they do shorter radio oriented tracks. Cčst la vie.
Myself there`s not much that JT has recorded that I don`t care for ( Under Wraps is even among my faves ). If there`s a band that never really sold out it was Jethro Tull. If you`ve ever attended a JT concert (I`ve seen them about 7 times ) they always come up with suprises in their set lists. On the A tour they only played 3 tracks from the A album when I saw them. The rest was all old material.
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TODDLER
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Posted: November 06 2009 at 10:51 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
I don`t think Ian ever sold out. Remember A started out as an Ian Anderson solo album. Then the big shots thought it would do better as a Tull album. The ELP album Love beach was a result of a record boss "suggesting" that they do shorter radio oriented tracks. Cčst la vie.
Myself there`s not much that JT has recorded that I don`t care for ( Under Wraps is even among my faves ). If there`s a band that never really sold out it was Jethro Tull. If you`ve ever attended a JT concert (I`ve seen them about 7 times ) they always come up with suprises in their set lists. On the A tour they only played 3 tracks from the A album when I saw them. The rest was all old material. |
I don't doubt your word and this is a point well taken. My opinion derives from how I took things for face value. When Under Wraps was released and I first heard it, I got the impression that they were changing with the times. The album had an 80's sound and was polished with that style. I thought that Crest Of A Knave was more of a back to basics approach for Tull. Although the songs that sounded like Dire Straits, I could not relate to. So it is very much my preference but, I always felt that when a band adapts a keyboard sound or a drum beat that is very much used in commercial music of the particular decade, it's their job to do so in order to survive financially. Look at Ignus Fatuus by White Willow. There is no homogenized formula for keyboard settings of the 90's on that record. They are just taking a style from the past and doing something else with it. I don't see anything wrong with that. It's expansion if anything. Everyone adapts a style from somewhere but, that doesn't mean a wall has to be put up to prevent musicians from breaking rules.
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verslibre
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Posted: November 06 2009 at 11:16 |
Vibrationbaby wrote:
(Under Wraps is even among my faves). |
If there is one Tull album that hasn't aged well, it's UW, no contest. Crest Of A Knave sounds like Stormwatch by comparison.
Actually, I don't care for Rock Island, either. I could never get into that one. The concert was good, though (and they had an "unknown" band called It Bites opening for them!).
Vibrationbaby wrote:
On the A tour they only played 3 tracks from the A album when I saw them. |
A guess: "Black Sunday," "Fylingdale Flyer" and "Pine Marten's Jig"?
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Nightfly
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Posted: November 06 2009 at 13:30 |
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Well it will be interesting to hear the new versions but I'm not optimistic on any improvements on the originals in view of Anderson's weak voice these days and if they have the sterile production of Roots To Branches and .Com.
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PROGMONSTER2008
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Posted: November 06 2009 at 16:25 |
If you trim 1971 and 1974 down to your fave 10 songs, you see how strong Tull were at compositions. Even Benefit(the version i got) doesn't include my 2 fave tull songs from 1970. They are Witches promise and Teacher. I also love Just trying to be which was another which missed the album. Stand up is similar with Living in the past, Sweet dream and Driving song as well as Stormwatch with it's 4 cool bonus tracks too. The remasters really make up for missing gems(except Aualung which should have had those remaining LITP songs from 1971). You really can't go wrong with remasters though. Stand up. Benefit, Aqualung, TAAB, APP, Warchild, LITP, SFTW, Heavy horses, Stormwatch, A, Broadsword all with their bonus tracks are minimum 4 star discs. I would have loved for Broadsword to be remasterd with a 2nd disc including the full acoustic version of jackalynn, which I much prefer as well as Motoreyes(which i like). Other songs added would be No step, Drive on the young side of life, The curse, Crew nights, Lights out, Commons brawl, Rythm in gold. Could have had about 28 songs and a remix of some of the drum tracks to make the disc more consistent(and a better listen) would have been cool even though I'm not overly fond of half of the 28 songs. With a better drum sound, the songs would come up better. Songs such as jackalynn(the well known version) , Beastie and Pussy willow put me off due to their drum sound. They don't match the rest of the album which has a reasonable drum mix . Tulls albums from 1981-1991 have inconsistent drum tracks. You have songs on an album not all played in the same studio. Some of the songs have different drummers and some songs have drum machine. If only Mark Craney hung around for all the 80s, we'd have all songs with 1 drummer with a good sound 
Edited by PROGMONSTER2008 - November 06 2009 at 16:33
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Vibrationbaby
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Posted: November 08 2009 at 11:19 |
Nightfly wrote:
Well it will be interesting to hear the new versions but I'm not optimistic on any improvements on the originals in view of Anderson's weak voice these days and if they have the sterile production of Roots To Branches and .Com. |
I'd d really like to hear something along the lines of .com.
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moshkito
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 19:57 |
Hi,
I don't want any of that stuff ...
Tell Ian to stop being a jerk and give us a couple of those 25 minute versions of "My God" ... with him out of breath and crying for more ... those beat anything he has ever done and too much of it is just a bunch of radio songs ... that have as much meaning as anything I say here!
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Progologue
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Posted: November 18 2009 at 20:27 |
moshkito wrote:
Hi,
I don't want any of that stuff ...
Tell Ian to stop being a jerk and give us a couple of those 25 minute versions of "My God" ... with him out of breath and crying for more ... those beat anything he has ever done and too much of it is just a bunch of radio songs ... that have as much meaning as anything I say here! |
My God is more commercially simplistic than all those songs in black. My God live is even more of a snoozer.
Edited by Progologue - November 18 2009 at 20:28
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Matte
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 10:27 |
I canīt understand why JT didnīt include Wondring Again on Aqualung. Itīs actually one of their best songs and it would fit logically on the B-side of the album.
Other highlights that never made it to the originals are Quartet and A Small Cigar - such charming and well structured tunes that so few were able to hear.
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catfishrob
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 16:05 |
TODDLER wrote:
Maybe they did. But that's basically the way in which you toe the line for a record company. Every managment company differs from the next. The communication between a band's manager and the record label in which they are signed to can be an awkward one. Even though many record executives from the mad days were fans of jazz music and were willing to let the bands have freedom of expression, there was still a request from higher ups to write either a mainstream single or simply to write a handfull of attempts. Look at what goes on today. Suzi Creamcheese sits in an office picking out which songs she thinks will hit the top of the toppest most with Metallica fans. So far, she has proven to the label that she can perform an amazing feat and as a result rake in a good fortune. But she is not a musician and her judgements are only for those who suck up the fringe aspects to music. And her and their motives are questionable regarding the promotion of what they consider great music, I consider the rape of the natural art form. I don't even like Metallica but, why should there career be that contrived? Maybe in the early days ELP, Yes, and Genesis had a little more freedom to sound underground progressive however, Roundabout was a single. They all eventually sold out. What could Ian Anderson possibly have done to fight such an unjust action? It was a bit give and take between artist and label in our day. But now, that is dead. What we knew of the music business is now and long been dead. Now it's complete garbage. I agree with your analogy over the Tull songs but, I excuse Ian Anderson from the stand due to the corruption that he was force fed from the industry. |
Okay I know what you're saying about record companies and I agree with it, but speaking of Metallica, let's not forget that JT won the Grammy's in '89. I don't think they were ever struggling that much to get public attention. Also, they had been producing stuff that had been pretty far out there. You can't tell me they were trying to toe the line, but yet released Thick As A Brick. That was right around the same time, so I don't think they could have had those sort of issues with their label. If they did, they could have gone to another label that would let them do whatever they wanted. I just don't think that argument rationalizes anything.
Edited by catfishrob - November 19 2009 at 16:10
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moshkito
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 18:38 |
| ...
My God is more commercially simplistic than all those songs in black. My God live is even more of a snoozer. |
With one exception ... you can't buy the feeling and emotion that was in those performances ... and the majority of songs have no soul by comparison ... a lot of words and opinions, and not enough music in the soul ... to satisfy.
In the bootlegs that were around those days with it, you will never ... EVER ... EVER ... again, hear a better flute play on the face of this earth!
If Ian thinks that some words and opinions and some "composition" is what makes his music better ... that's probably why I have not been there since "Passion Play" ... his last important and valid piece of work. The rest are just a bunch of radio/commercial songs ... and if that is what turns you on ... I really think we should remove jethro Tull from the annals of "prog" ... that's not to say that it is not good music ... I'm just not interested in radio and 4 minutes orgasms anymore ...
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Progologue
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 20:34 |
moshkito wrote:
| ...
My God is more commercially simplistic than all those songs in black. My God live is even more of a snoozer. |
With one exception ... you can't buy the feeling and emotion that was in those performances ... and the majority of songs have no soul by comparison ... a lot of words and opinions, and not enough music in the soul ... to satisfy.
In the bootlegs that were around those days with it, you will never ... EVER ... EVER ... again, hear a better flute play on the face of this earth!
If Ian thinks that some words and opinions and some "composition" is what makes his music better ... that's probably why I have not been there since "Passion Play" ... his last important and valid piece of work. The rest are just a bunch of radio/commercial songs ... and if that is what turns you on ... I really think we should remove jethro Tull from the annals of "prog" ... that's not to say that it is not good music ... I'm just not interested in radio and 4 minutes orgasms anymore ...
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I don't think so 
Heavy horses and Songs from the wood are top prog folk albums. A is more is a prog rock album with more synths and violin. Stormwatch is more on the heavy folk side and the bonus tracks really make this a strong cd. That makes Tull one of my fave prog bands of the 1977-1980 era. I really like the Warchild bonus material too. Plenty of proggy rock songs. It's on 1975 and 76 where they didn't seem to produce many goodies imo
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Atavachron
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 20:44 |
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actually I'd have to say Tull did not have a truly weak moment between 69 and 79, especially compared to many peers, and over the decades JT has probably been the most consistent prog band despite poor moments (as Wraps)..they've never given up on prog like many [Genesis, ELP, Rush, Floyd], still rock in concert, and continue to maintain their integrity
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PROGMONSTER2008
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Posted: November 20 2009 at 03:14 |
Matte wrote:
I canīt understand why JT didnīt include Wondring Again on Aqualung. Itīs actually one of their best songs and it would fit logically on the B-side of the album.
Other highlights that never made it to the originals are Quartet and A Small Cigar - such charming and well structured tunes that so few were able to hear. |
Wond'ring again is very nice. But so is Up the pool, Dr Bogenbroom, Life is a long song, For Later. Can't really split them. Love em all. Same with Quartet, Saturation, Glory row, Sealion 2, Rainbow blues, Paradise steakhouse. These are mainly my fave tull songs from 1971 and 1974.
Edited by PROGMONSTER2008 - November 20 2009 at 03:15
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O666
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Posted: November 20 2009 at 05:47 |
moshkito wrote:
I really think we should remove jethro Tull from the annals of "prog" ... that's not to say that it is not good music ... I'm just not interested in radio and 4 minutes orgasms anymore ...
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What? Which prog you say? 
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Why Tull? You silly buggers
