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Topic ClosedWhat does age have to do with Prog Metal?

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Poll Question: What does age have to do with Prog Metal?
Poll Choice Votes Poll Statistics
49 [38.28%]
23 [17.97%]
28 [21.88%]
20 [15.63%]
2 [1.56%]
6 [4.69%]
This topic is closed, no new votes accepted

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Borealis View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2005 at 20:55

I’m young and don’t like Prog Metal. (although I voted for non young/dislike, I think...)

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 09 2005 at 22:44
i am 25 and the only metal i like so far is opeth, dream theater,
symphony x, tool, mars volta.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 02:09
33 here and currently listening to heavier music than I ever have.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 02:26
Im young and I like Prog Metal, but Symphonic Prog is still my fav genre/sub
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 02:28
Age has absolutely nothing to do with a passion for heavy guitars, Mike. I have been listening to them for about 30 years. Metal ain't new!
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 04:20
Ha
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 04:33
BJean- have you tried devin townsend - ocean machine or terria are brilliant

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 05:03

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to this poll, I am not young, and I don't especially like prog-metal, with perhaps the odd exception. in general it is mostly the attitude about metal I don't like. I like it heavy though at times; High Tide and Hawkwind are definitely some of my favorites (both are not metal bands though, but can be pretty heavy). I also like to listen to Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin or Atomic Rooster, for example. or Blue Oyster Cult. but in general, Metal doesn't interest me much, unless someone can recommend something interesting to me. not Dream Theater though please; I know them

Have you tried these:

P.S.: Of course a single song only gives you a vague idea of the album.

 

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 05:50

Not young, and not much of a fan of prog metal. I am a fan of a lot of hard rock and plenty of noisy indie/alternative music, but most of the music listed as prog metal just leaves me cold (and I have tried DT, Opeth, Symphony X and most of the others with sample songs on this site). A lot of the time it seems like the worst of both worlds to me - not heavy enough for metal but too close to metal to be prog.

Having got that off my chest, I can also understand the popularity of a lot of prog metal and the leading acts in the genre include musicians and writers as talented as in any other sub genre. Whilst I'm not a fan, I can't honestly say that I actively dislike much of it either.

The age issue is an interesting one. I think that had I not grown up during the glory days of Led Zeppelin I'd probably be a lot more receptive to Dream Theater (not a perfect analogy, but it will do), in the same way that if I hadn't been around to experience Pink Floyd at first hand I'd probably have more time for Radiohead and Coldplay.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 05:59
Originally posted by Syzygy Syzygy wrote:

Not young, and not much of a fan of prog metal. I am a fan of a lot of hard rock and plenty of noisy indie/alternative music, but most of the music listed as prog metal just leaves me cold (and I have tried DT, Opeth, Symphony X and most of the others with sample songs on this site). A lot of the time it seems like the worst of both worlds to me - not heavy enough for metal but too close to metal to be prog.

That doesn't make sense to me. Shouldn't is say "too close to metal to be rock"? Your comment seems to support my theory that Prog Metal is indeed very different from Prog Rock.

IMO a lot of people bash Prog Metal needlessly because it's not similar to the established Prog Metal bands. But nobody said that it is, that's not the issue. You also said in another part of your post that there are many accomplished songwriters and musicians who focus on Prog Metal. Shouldn't we judge the quality of the music instead of the similarity to other genres?

 



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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 07:24
Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to this poll, I am not young, and I don't especially like prog-metal, with perhaps the odd exception. in general it is mostly the attitude about metal I don't like. I like it heavy though at times; High Tide and Hawkwind are definitely some of my favorites (both are not metal bands though, but can be pretty heavy). I also like to listen to Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin or Atomic Rooster, for example. or Blue Oyster Cult. but in general, Metal doesn't interest me much, unless someone can recommend something interesting to me. not Dream Theater though please; I know them
There's a lot of folky pagan (if I recall correctly that's something you have an interest in?) music with metal undertones - I'm not too familiar in general but Empyrium used to do dark moody metal, before doing dark moody folk. There's a lot of pagan black metal too but that's usually awful
 
edit: Empryium aren't prog, of course, but I'd imagine most of Mike's list wouldn't really be to your taste, although you may find Fantomas interesting I guess.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 11:38
Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to this poll, I am not young, and I don't especially like prog-metal, with perhaps the odd exception. in general it is mostly the attitude about metal I don't like. I like it heavy though at times; High Tide and Hawkwind are definitely some of my favorites (both are not metal bands though, but can be pretty heavy). I also like to listen to Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin or Atomic Rooster, for example. or Blue Oyster Cult. but in general, Metal doesn't interest me much, unless someone can recommend something interesting to me. not Dream Theater though please; I know them


Have you tried these:

    * Fantomas - Fantomas, Suspended Animation
    * Devin Townsend - Infinity, Terria
    * Heaven's Cry - Food For Thought Substitute, Primal Power Addiction
    * Pain of Salvation - Entropia, Perfect Element Pt. 1
    * Symphony X - V: The New Mythology Suite
    * Psychotic Waltz - A Social Grace, Into the Everflow
    * Adagio - Underworld
    * Ayreon - Into the Electric Castle
    * Ice Age - The Great Divide
    * Opeth - Blackwater Park, Ghost Reveries
    * Shadow Gallery - Carved in Stone, Tyranny, Room V
    * Winds - The Imaginary Direction of Time

P.S.: Of course a single song only gives you a vague idea of the album.

 

I listened to the examples of those bands in the database (not those examples you gave me, because they are only a few seconds long; nothing to judge by). here's what I have to say about them (ciomments were written immediately after I first heard them).
Fantomas: "Rosemarie's Baby". interesting track, though I fear hardly representative. the part when it gets heavy is a little over the top, in my opinion, but certainly not uninteresting.
Devin Townsend: "Hide Nowhere" and "War". excuse me, but I fail to see how these tracks are prog at all, not even prog metal. it is metal, yes, but absolutely no prog element. absolutely boring too. if this is in any way representative for his work, he should be removed from the archive.
Heaven's Cry: unfortunately there is no MP3 of them in the archive, nothing I can judge.
Pain of Salvation: "!Forward", "New Year's Eve", "Ashes", "Beyond the Pale". the most interesting so far. big plus: when they rock, they don't go over the top. on the minus side: I don't care much for the vocals (maybe I could get used to them though), and the keyboards are occasionally too billowing.
Symphony X: "The Eyes of Medusa", "Church of the Machine", "Egypt". quite interesting. the keyboards generally seem to be a weak point of prog metal; here they are often too reedy or (again, as with Pain of Salvation) too billowing. nice duet between guitar and keyboards at the end of "Church of the Machine" though. the vocals leave me cold again. on the plus side, just as with Pain of Salvation: they don't go over the top when they rock. but those keyboards are sometimes way too "sülzig", as Friede said; a word that is difficult to translate; "schmaltzy" does not quite hit the mark; perhaps "billowing" is best to describe them.
Psychotic Waltz: "Freakshow". nothing special here; a band like dozens of others. not even very proggy. in through one ear, out through the other. horrible vocals though (although they are absolutely typical for the metal genré).
Adagio: "The Inner Road"  and "Next Profundis": that's something I will have to listen to again. just one remark right now: why do so many singers have to sound like castrated cockerels?
Ayreon: no MP3s here, so no comment.
Ice Age: "Ice Age". by far the best track so far; even the vocals are bearable. more of this.
Opeth: "The Drapery Falls", "Closure". quite interesting and many non-metal parts. but I can live without the growling; I think it is childish. if this is something they use often: no thanks.
Shadow Gallery: "The Dance of Fools" and "Act 1- Victims". the first track is not metal at all, the 2nd a little. quite untypical for prog metal.
Winds: "The Fireworks of Genesis". I like the beginning of that track with the string section; do they use it more often? the rest was nothing special


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 11:53
I'm 21, with the life experience of someone closer to the 'old' side, and while I like prog metal, I prefer other forms of prog.  
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 12:13

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:


I listened to the examples of those bands in the database (not those examples you gave me, because they are only a few seconds long; nothing to judge by). here's what I have to say about them (ciomments were written immediately after I first heard them).

The samples are from the websites of the bands ... sadly they don't offer full songs. But you should check out the Pain of Salvation website, they're offering many tracks from their other albums - full songs, in good quality. The songs from Perfect Element are even neighbouring songs, so you can listen to the first 20 minutes of Perfect Element Pt. 1.


Fantomas: "Rosemarie's Baby". interesting track, though I fear hardly representative. the part when it gets heavy is a little over the top, in my opinion, but certainly not uninteresting.

Sadly this track is not at all representative of their music. I'll try to post two more interesting samples.

Devin Townsend: "Hide Nowhere" and "War". excuse me, but I fail to see how these tracks are prog at all, not even prog metal. it is metal, yes, but absolutely no prog element. absolutely boring too. if this is in any way representative for his work, he should be removed from the archive.

Again, the tracks are not representative.  

Heaven's Cry: unfortunately there is no MP3 of them in the archive, nothing I can judge.

I'll see what I can do ... they're my favorite "unkown" band, they deserve some promotion.

Pain of Salvation: "!Forward", "New Year's Eve", "Ashes", "Beyond the Pale". the most interesting so far. big plus: when they rock, they don't go over the top. on the minus side: I don't care much for the vocals (maybe I could get used to them though), and the keyboards are occasionally too billowing.

Well ... they're the best band in Prog Metal ... for me and many others. The vocals are an "acquired taste", but Daniel is really an outstanding singer. Two days ago I had the opportunity to be at one of their shows, and I witnessed first hand what an incredible range, phrasing and versatility the man has.

Symphony X: "The Eyes of Medusa", "Church of the Machine", "Egypt". quite interesting. the keyboards generally seem to be a weak point of prog metal; here they are often too reedy or (again, as with Pain of Salvation) too billowing. nice duet between guitar and keyboards at the end of "Church of the Machine" though. the vocals leave me cold again. on the plus side, just as with Pain of Salvation: they don't go over the top when they rock. but those keyboards are sometimes way too "sülzig", as Friede said; a word that is difficult to translate; "schmaltzy" does not quite hit the mark; perhaps "billowing" is best to describe them.

I'd call these keyboards "cheesy" ... but again these aren't the best tracks. The singer (Russell Allen) is perhaps the best current metal singer. But then again you don't have to like metal singers ...

Psychotic Waltz: "Freakshow". nothing special here; a band like dozens of others. not even very proggy. in through one ear, out through the other. horrible vocals though (although they are absolutely typical for the metal genré).

It's a bad sample of their progressive side, A Social Grace is much better. The singer isn't that bad ... but with Psychotic Waltz he does a lot of unnecessary "wailing" and overexerts himself frequently in the high registers. With his own band (Dead Soul Tribe) he's much better and more mature, but their music is less progressive. 

Adagio: "The Inner Road"  and "Next Profundis": that's something I will have to listen to again. just one remark right now: why do so many singers have to sound like castrated cockerels?

Underworld is a remarkable album - it takes much longer to grow on you, it has a very serious classical approach.

Ayreon: no MP3s here, so no comment.
Ice Age: "Ice Age". by far the best track so far; even the vocals are bearable. more of this.

Yes, their albums are quite nice.

Opeth: "The Drapery Falls", "Closure". quite interesting and many non-metal parts. but I can live without the growling; I think it is childish. if this is something they use often: no thanks.

The growling is inherent to their music ... but compared to other bands with such vocals it's still quite musical. They made a complete album without growling ("Damnation") which is very good ... but it's not really Opeth (It's a collaboration with Steven Wilson from Porcupine Tree).

Shadow Gallery: "The Dance of Fools" and "Act 1- Victims". the first track is not metal at all, the 2nd a little. quite untypical for prog metal.

In my book they're not Prog Metal, more like a mix of many genres like Folk, Neo-Prog and Art Rock, combined with Metal guitars and songwriting. The sample tracks are somewhat representative of their sound, but not of their songwriting. IMO their most important asset are strong melodies, very refined vocals and tasteful solos.

Winds: "The Fireworks of Genesis". I like the beginning of that track with the string section; do they use it more often? the rest was nothing special

The string quintet is an integral part of the band, it is used throughout the album.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 12:21

Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

Originally posted by MikeEnRegalia MikeEnRegalia wrote:



Originally posted by BaldJean BaldJean wrote:

according to this poll, I am not young, and I don't especially like prog-metal, with perhaps the odd exception. in general it is mostly the attitude about metal I don't like. I like it heavy though at times; High Tide and Hawkwind are definitely some of my favorites (both are not metal bands though, but can be pretty heavy). I also like to listen to Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin or Atomic Rooster, for example. or Blue Oyster Cult. but in general, Metal doesn't interest me much, unless someone can recommend something interesting to me. not Dream Theater though please; I know them


Have you tried these:

    * Fantomas - Fantomas, Suspended Animation
    * Devin Townsend - Infinity, Terria
    * Heaven's Cry - Food For Thought Substitute, Primal Power Addiction
    * Pain of Salvation - Entropia, Perfect Element Pt. 1
    * Symphony X - V: The New Mythology Suite
    * Psychotic Waltz - A Social Grace, Into the Everflow
    * Adagio - Underworld
    * Ayreon - Into the Electric Castle
    * Ice Age - The Great Divide
    * Opeth - Blackwater Park, Ghost Reveries
    * Shadow Gallery - Carved in Stone, Tyranny, Room V
    * Winds - The Imaginary Direction of Time

P.S.: Of course a single song only gives you a vague idea of the album.

 

I listened to the examples of those bands in the database (not those examples you gave me, because they are only a few seconds long; nothing to judge by). here's what I have to say about them (ciomments were written immediately after I first heard them).
Fantomas: "Rosemarie's Baby". interesting track, though I fear hardly representative. the part when it gets heavy is a little over the top, in my opinion, but certainly not uninteresting.
Devin Townsend: "Hide Nowhere" and "War". excuse me, but I fail to see how these tracks are prog at all, not even prog metal. it is metal, yes, but absolutely no prog element. absolutely boring too. if this is in any way representative for his work, he should be removed from the archive.
Heaven's Cry: unfortunately there is no MP3 of them in the archive, nothing I can judge.
Pain of Salvation: "!Forward", "New Year's Eve", "Ashes", "Beyond the Pale". the most interesting so far. big plus: when they rock, they don't go over the top. on the minus side: I don't care much for the vocals (maybe I could get used to them though), and the keyboards are occasionally too billowing.
Symphony X: "The Eyes of Medusa", "Church of the Machine", "Egypt". quite interesting. the keyboards generally seem to be a weak point of prog metal; here they are often too reedy or (again, as with Pain of Salvation) too billowing. nice duet between guitar and keyboards at the end of "Church of the Machine" though. the vocals leave me cold again. on the plus side, just as with Pain of Salvation: they don't go over the top when they rock. but those keyboards are sometimes way too "sülzig", as Friede said; a word that is difficult to translate; "schmaltzy" does not quite hit the mark; perhaps "billowing" is best to describe them.
Psychotic Waltz: "Freakshow". nothing special here; a band like dozens of others. not even very proggy. in through one ear, out through the other. horrible vocals though (although they are absolutely typical for the metal genré).
Adagio: "The Inner Road"  and "Next Profundis": that's something I will have to listen to again. just one remark right now: why do so many singers have to sound like castrated cockerels?
Ayreon: no MP3s here, so no comment.
Ice Age: "Ice Age". by far the best track so far; even the vocals are bearable. more of this.
Opeth: "The Drapery Falls", "Closure". quite interesting and many non-metal parts. but I can live without the growling; I think it is childish. if this is something they use often: no thanks.
Shadow Gallery: "The Dance of Fools" and "Act 1- Victims". the first track is not metal at all, the 2nd a little. quite untypical for prog metal.
Winds: "The Fireworks of Genesis". I like the beginning of that track with the string section; do they use it more often? the rest was nothing special

Pos & Symph X don't care for vocals?!. Everybody's got his opinion, but its still a bit strange to my eyes. Psychotic WAlz have terrible vocals? I dident hear anything from them but can anyone tell did Devon's singing change so strongly in DeadSoul Tribe? Shadow Gallery don't sound THAT much metal... Its becouse of the production me thinks, the guitars aren't that heavy... And the meodies are quite nice

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 13:22
Originally posted by Ed_The_Dead Ed_The_Dead wrote:

Psychotic WAlz have terrible vocals? I dident hear anything from them but can anyone tell did Devon's singing change so strongly in DeadSoul Tribe?

Yes.

Actually, if you only know Dead Soul Tribe and listen to Psychotic Waltz for the first time, I bet you wouldn't recognize that it's Devon. His singing was quite experimental in PW, and I really prefer his more mature style with Dead Soul Tribe.

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 14:52
Originally posted by cobb cobb wrote:

BJean- have you tried devin townsend - ocean machine or terria are brilliant

I listened to the examples of Devin Townsend in the database; the MP3s that are in there ("Hide Nowhere" and "War") are absolutely horrible and boring and not prog at all; if this is in any way representative for his output he should be deleted from the database. and I don't say that because I generally disapprove of prog metal; I listened to a lot today and found some really interesting stuff (especially Ice Age)


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 14:57
Young, and not a prog-metal fan
"Art is not imitation, nor is it something manufactured according to the wishes of instinct or good taste. It is a process of expression."

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 15:04

BaldJean:

There's more to Devin Townsend than "meets the ear" on first listen. He's surely not your typical prog artist, that's obvious. His music has an enormous level of sophistication, especially on many tracks of "Infinity" and all of "Terria". I suggested a track from Terria in the collabs section, it should be added to the samples in a few days.

Here are two samples (complete songs) from his homepage:

http://www.hevydevy.com/mp3/Christeen.mp3 

http://www.hevydevy.com/mp3/Canada.mp3

I'm curious what you think about them ... and why you're so opposed to his music even on first listen. Remember that there's a lot of music in the Electronic Prog genre that would cause equally negative reaction on first listen - Klaus Schulze for example (people would complain that it's just sphaerical synths).

Edit: I just listened to the 128kbps versions ... the compression really hides the enormous level of detail in the songs.

 



Edited by MikeEnRegalia
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 10 2005 at 15:48
I'm young and I listen to prog metal. 
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