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Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13338
Posted: April 10 2011 at 17:07
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
lol it's trolling because you don't like one of the bands being mentioned in the poll and are amazed that someone could enjoy them more than your classic bands? This isn't 2006 anymore. There's a lot of people here who could care less about classic prog. Members should start realizing that.
Conversely, there are people interested in the original progressive movement who don't consider bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Protest the Hero or other Linda Blair/Exorcist banshees to be progressive rock bands at all. So I guess we're even.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: September 17 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 16122
Posted: April 10 2011 at 18:03
The Dark Elf wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
lol it's trolling because you don't like one of the bands being mentioned in the poll and are amazed that someone could enjoy them more than your classic bands? This isn't 2006 anymore. There's a lot of people here who could care less about classic prog. Members should start realizing that.
Conversely, there are people interested in the original progressive movement who don't consider bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Protest the Hero or other Linda Blair/Exorcist banshees to be progressive rock bands at all. So I guess we're even.
Your definition of "progressive" is antiquated then. It's kind of ironic you'd think that then because it seems to me that for the most part the prog dinosaur bands that are still around seem to be just rehashing a lot of old material or stuff that people have already been listening to for the last 40 years instead of actually trying to progress the nature of rock, which is what these up-and-coming extreme acts are doing. No question about it.
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13338
Posted: April 10 2011 at 19:49
NecronCommander wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
lol it's trolling because you don't like one of the bands being mentioned in the poll and are amazed that someone could enjoy them more than your classic bands? This isn't 2006 anymore. There's a lot of people here who could care less about classic prog. Members should start realizing that.
Conversely, there are people interested in the original progressive movement who don't consider bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Protest the Hero or other Linda Blair/Exorcist banshees to be progressive rock bands at all. So I guess we're even.
Your definition of "progressive" is antiquated then. It's kind of ironic you'd think that then because it seems to me that for the most part the prog dinosaur bands that are still around seem to be just rehashing a lot of old material or stuff that people have already been listening to for the last 40 years instead of actually trying to progress the nature of rock, which is what these up-and-coming extreme acts are doing. No question about it.
I'm sorry, but how is grunting like a wild warthog in heat "progressing" rock? Can you really differentiate one wild rutting warthog's guttural growl from another? Does it require a zoology degree, or is there some program on the Discovery Channel that offers a glimpse into warthog grunting rituals?
"National Geographic here, in the wilds of Buffalo Arena, seeking the ever-dangerous vocalist of a death-symphonic-prog-mathcore-gothic-groove-power-speed metal band. Somewhere beyond the monotonous beats of a double bass drum, he lurks. Be careful with the camera, we don't want to disturb him in his natural habitat. Wait there he is...."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"I can't make out the species because the human ear cannot detect a difference between one or the other growl. But we have a trained specialist who has listened to the same Opeth album 730 times in the space of a week in the basement of his parent's house."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"Can you make it out, Doctor?"
"Not yet. I don't have the lyrics with me."
"There's lyrics?"
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"Perhaps if we entice it with some groupies..."
"Just a minute, I believe it's symphonic progressive metal."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"How can you tell?"
"Because I believe I hear a D major note, and Pachelbel also used a D major."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"I'm afraid we'll have to cut to commercial..."
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: August 11 2005
Location: Philly
Status: Offline
Points: 15784
Posted: April 10 2011 at 21:14
The Dark Elf wrote:
NecronCommander wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
lol it's trolling because you don't like one of the bands being mentioned in the poll and are amazed that someone could enjoy them more than your classic bands? This isn't 2006 anymore. There's a lot of people here who could care less about classic prog. Members should start realizing that.
Conversely, there are people interested in the original progressive movement who don't consider bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Protest the Hero or other Linda Blair/Exorcist banshees to be progressive rock bands at all. So I guess we're even.
Your definition of "progressive" is antiquated then. It's kind of ironic you'd think that then because it seems to me that for the most part the prog dinosaur bands that are still around seem to be just rehashing a lot of old material or stuff that people have already been listening to for the last 40 years instead of actually trying to progress the nature of rock, which is what these up-and-coming extreme acts are doing. No question about it.
I'm sorry, but how is grunting like a wild warthog in heat "progressing" rock? Can you really differentiate one wild rutting warthog's guttural growl from another? Does it require a zoology degree, or is there some program on the Discovery Channel that offers a glimpse into warthog grunting rituals?
"National Geographic here, in the wilds of Buffalo Arena, seeking the ever-dangerous vocalist of a death-symphonic-prog-mathcore-gothic-groove-power-speed metal band. Somewhere beyond the monotonous beats of a double bass drum, he lurks. Be careful with the camera, we don't want to disturb him in his natural habitat. Wait there he is...."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"I can't make out the species because the human ear cannot detect a difference between one or the other growl. But we have a trained specialist who has listened to the same Opeth album 730 times in the space of a week in the basement of his parent's house."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"Can you make it out, Doctor?"
"Not yet. I don't have the lyrics with me."
"There's lyrics?"
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"Perhaps if we entice it with some groupies..."
"Just a minute, I believe it's symphonic progressive metal."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"How can you tell?"
"Because I believe I hear a D major note, and Pachelbel also used a D major."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"I'm afraid we'll have to cut to commercial..."
WOW nice one racist.
"One had to be a Newton to notice that the moon is falling, when everyone sees that it doesn't fall. "
Joined: September 17 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 16122
Posted: April 10 2011 at 21:24
The Dark Elf wrote:
NecronCommander wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
lol it's trolling because you don't like one of the bands being mentioned in the poll and are amazed that someone could enjoy them more than your classic bands? This isn't 2006 anymore. There's a lot of people here who could care less about classic prog. Members should start realizing that.
Conversely, there are people interested in the original progressive movement who don't consider bands like The Dillinger Escape Plan, Protest the Hero or other Linda Blair/Exorcist banshees to be progressive rock bands at all. So I guess we're even.
Your definition of "progressive" is antiquated then. It's kind of ironic you'd think that then because it seems to me that for the most part the prog dinosaur bands that are still around seem to be just rehashing a lot of old material or stuff that people have already been listening to for the last 40 years instead of actually trying to progress the nature of rock, which is what these up-and-coming extreme acts are doing. No question about it.
I'm sorry, but how is grunting like a wild warthog in heat "progressing" rock? Can you really differentiate one wild rutting warthog's guttural growl from another? Does it require a zoology degree, or is there some program on the Discovery Channel that offers a glimpse into warthog grunting rituals?
"National Geographic here, in the wilds of Buffalo Arena, seeking the ever-dangerous vocalist of a death-symphonic-prog-mathcore-gothic-groove-power-speed metal band. Somewhere beyond the monotonous beats of a double bass drum, he lurks. Be careful with the camera, we don't want to disturb him in his natural habitat. Wait there he is...."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"I can't make out the species because the human ear cannot detect a difference between one or the other growl. But we have a trained specialist who has listened to the same Opeth album 730 times in the space of a week in the basement of his parent's house."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"Can you make it out, Doctor?"
"Not yet. I don't have the lyrics with me."
"There's lyrics?"
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"Perhaps if we entice it with some groupies..."
"Just a minute, I believe it's symphonic progressive metal."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"How can you tell?"
"Because I believe I hear a D major note, and Pachelbel also used a D major."
"ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROWR-ROW-ROW-ROWR"
"I'm afraid we'll have to cut to commercial..."
Haha, well that was an entertaining reply. Though it still seems that everyone is falling back on the whole "growling" defense. Get original, folks!
In response, yes, I can tell the difference between different people growling. I could discern Mikael Akerfeldt's growls from Greg Puciato's roars from Tommy Rogers's screams from Brent Hinds's bellows. They make sense to me, and to some people they don't. Probably the same way you could be able to tell the difference between a warbly keyboard solo from Bill Bruford and one from Kerry Minnear when I couldn't. That's fine bud, I get that they aren't for everyone, we've done this whole thing before. Knocking the whole genre because of the singing is a pretty stupid thing to do, especially when the focus is on the rest of the music.
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13338
Posted: April 10 2011 at 22:12
NecronCommander wrote:
Haha, well that was an entertaining reply. Though it still seems that everyone is falling back on the whole "growling" defense. Get original, folks!
In response, yes, I can tell the difference between different people growling. I could discern Mikael Akerfeldt's growls from Greg Puciato's roars from Tommy Rogers's screams from Brent Hinds's bellows. They make sense to me, and to some people they don't. Probably the same way you could be able to tell the difference between a warbly keyboard solo from Bill Bruford and one from Kerry Minnear when I couldn't. That's fine bud, I get that they aren't for everyone, we've done this whole thing before. Knocking the whole genre because of the singing is a pretty stupid thing to do, especially when the focus is on the rest of the music.
*Bows*
Thank you for a civil reply to my snarky commentary. At least you have a sense of humor. In regards to the "falling back on the whole 'growling' defense', it is an insurmountable wedge that drives me from these bands. I cannot listen to it. I find it campy and ridiculously over-the-top. It does nothing for the composition; in fact, it detracts from the music altogether. In addition, It is done by so many bands of so many "metal" genres as to utterly lack in originality (hence my questioning the entire "progressive" title of these bands).
A progression can be defined as moving away from accepted modes of operation, but the inane growling has been done for decades now; ergo, it is not original. And when you say, quite rightfully, that "the focus is on the rest of the music", I would say the stupid thing is that growling like Linda Blair possessed occurs so often in the compositions of these bands as to constitute an anchor that each of these performers drags around with them. It is an unnecessary impediment in what possibly might be a much larger group of fans listening to the music. Unfortunately, until this lunacy is ended and someone actually has the balls to break the mold and actually "progresses", then there will always be a gulf between us.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: February 01 2011
Location: Michigan
Status: Offline
Points: 13338
Posted: April 10 2011 at 22:20
Equality 7-2521 wrote:
I'd rather listen to a warthog than Phil Collin's whiney rat voice.
That is, of course, your option and your preference. I am sure there are many splendid zoos in your area where you can commune with your guttural side. As far as Phil Collins, I haven't cared for his work since Wind & Wuthering. Very commendable drummer though.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
Joined: September 17 2009
Location: Madison, WI
Status: Offline
Points: 16122
Posted: April 10 2011 at 22:30
The Dark Elf wrote:
NecronCommander wrote:
Haha, well that was an entertaining reply. Though it still seems that everyone is falling back on the whole "growling" defense. Get original, folks!
In response, yes, I can tell the difference between different people growling. I could discern Mikael Akerfeldt's growls from Greg Puciato's roars from Tommy Rogers's screams from Brent Hinds's bellows. They make sense to me, and to some people they don't. Probably the same way you could be able to tell the difference between a warbly keyboard solo from Bill Bruford and one from Kerry Minnear when I couldn't. That's fine bud, I get that they aren't for everyone, we've done this whole thing before. Knocking the whole genre because of the singing is a pretty stupid thing to do, especially when the focus is on the rest of the music.
*Bows*
Thank you for a civil reply to my snarky commentary. At least you have a sense of humor. In regards to the "falling back on the whole 'growling' defense', it is an insurmountable wedge that drives me from these bands. I cannot listen to it. I find it campy and ridiculously over-the-top. It does nothing for the composition; in fact, it detracts from the music altogether. In addition, It is done by so many bands of so many "metal" genres as to utterly lack in originality (hence my questioning the entire "progressive" title of these bands).
A progression can be defined as moving away from accepted modes of operation, but the inane growling has been done for decades now; ergo, it is not original. And when you say, quite rightfully, that "the focus is on the rest of the music", I would say the stupid thing is that growling like Linda Blair possessed occurs so often in the compositions of these bands as to constitute an anchor that each of these performers drags around with them. It is an unnecessary impediment in what possibly might be a much larger group of fans listening to the music. Unfortunately, until this lunacy is ended and someone actually has the balls to break the mold and actually "progresses", then there will always be a gulf between us.
I hadn't thought of what you said about the growling being unoriginal, and you may be right on that, but that's also because it's a staple of metal. It wouldn't be metal (well, sometimes) without the growls, any less than it would be symphonic prog without the Mellotron. Some things are kind of essential to the music.
Also, more often than not, I think you'll find that for the good majority of the heavy bands on this website can effectively use both clean and harsh vocals to convey different moods. Look at Opeth: Akerfeldt has a beautiful clean voice and they fit wonderfully with the clean passages in their music, but when they need to bring the rain with the heaviness, nothing else would work but a deep, guttural roar. That's one of the cool things about progressive metal bands is that most of them realize that there is a purpose to these different stylings, unlike most metal bands who do growl just for the sake of the convention of growling.
Even then, for the most part the growling is just a textural thing with the music. The growling is anchored around the music, not the other way around. And metal isn't meant to be an accessible genre, the music is supposed to be challenging and difficult to listen to, but rewarding to the people who adapt to its stylings.
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