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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 11:13
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Originally posted by AtomicCrimsonRush AtomicCrimsonRush wrote:

Why are we hijacking this thread to discuss meaningless things... The decision was made unanimously by the team.

Move along. 
Because arguing with Iván when he's wrong is easier than trying to convince some people that the bands they suggest do not belong here?

Very impartial as usual Dean

Have you checked that in the Post Prog thread http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=83235&KW=post+progressive&PN=1 out of 38 posts, only 4 by Adam Hunter agree with the term Post Prog and that most see the term Post in front of a musical form is absurd?

Then why am I wrong? Or better...Why is anybody wrong in an issue that is a matter of opinions?

Iván
Because you are arguing that the prefix "post" is only applicable when the base genre is dead, and that isn't strictly accurate since the term is invariably used while the parent or prior genre is still active, nor is it valid in the general use of the prefix, for example in postmodernism and postfuturism - both created while the modernism and futurism were still extant. That is not opinion, that is merely observation.
 
Sure post-prog is absurd, just as new prog is absurd - these are marketing terms at best and lazy journalism at worse.
 
 
What?
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 11:31
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Because you are arguing that the prefix "post" is only applicable when the base genre is dead, and that isn't strictly accurate since the term is invariably used while the parent or prior genre is still active, nor is it valid in the general use of the prefix, for example in postmodernism and postfuturism - both created while the modernism and futurism were still extant. That is not opinion, that is merely observation.
 
Sure post-prog is absurd, just as new prog is absurd - these are marketing terms at best and lazy journalism at worse.
 
 

So please tell me, what will we consider Post Prog?

  1. Post 70's
  2. Posts Neo Prog (even when Neo Prog still exists)
  3. Post 90's Scandinavian Renaissance
  4. Post 2000
  5. Post Prog Metal Boom
Your perspective is one of many, I believe that the term is absurd an inaccurate, I can understand post war, post anything that has ended.

Now, the term Post Modernism for example, was created by John Watkins Chapman to break with Modernism, most precisely with impressionism, he honestly believed Modernism was dead,the wrong usage of it by many people doesn't make it correct.

Post Futurism is an absolute contradiction, but again, it's a term coined by Vivian Sobchack to split from post modernism.

All unnecessary and contradictory terms IMO.

Prog exists, it's vital today, how in hell can we say that there is something called Post Prog?

Iván
            
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Ivan_Melgar_M View Drop Down
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Points: 19557 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 11:47
But as Scott said, there is a whole thread about this, why Highjack Half Apple?
            
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Points: 10213 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 12:06
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

(...) for example in postmodernism and postfuturism (...)
 
 
yeah, or transavanguardia, a term what Achile Benito Oliva (RIP) was invented for his famous painters - Clemente, Chia, Palladino... People always invented the terms! a number of terms are nice for us and widely accepted , and we like it , but  some terms are really sh*tt, so we dont like it; "post progressive" term sounds not nicely for a genre, so it is an absurd without a question.
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Dean View Drop Down
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Points: 37575 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 12:38
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

Because you are arguing that the prefix "post" is only applicable when the base genre is dead, and that isn't strictly accurate since the term is invariably used while the parent or prior genre is still active, nor is it valid in the general use of the prefix, for example in postmodernism and postfuturism - both created while the modernism and futurism were still extant. That is not opinion, that is merely observation.
 
Sure post-prog is absurd, just as new prog is absurd - these are marketing terms at best and lazy journalism at worse.
 
 

So please tell me, what will we consider Post Prog?

  1. Post 70's
  2. Posts Neo Prog (even when Neo Prog still exists)
  3. Post 90's Scandinavian Renaissance
  4. Post 2000
  5. Post Prog Metal Boom
Your perspective is one of many, I believe that the term is absurd an inaccurate, I can understand post war, post anything that has ended.

Now, the term Post Modernism for example, was created by John Watkins Chapman to break with Modernism, most precisely with impressionism, he honestly believed Modernism was dead,the wrong usage of it by many people doesn't make it correct.

Post Futurism is an absolute contradiction, but again, it's a term coined by Vivian Sobchack to split from post modernism.

All unnecessary and contradictory terms IMO.

Prog exists, it's vital today, how in hell can we say that there is something called Post Prog?

Iván
Why are you even arguing these points with me? I have never said Post Prog exists, I don't think it does, just as I don't think New Prog exists. HOWEVER: Once a term goes from being a decriptive adjective to a noun then all relevance to the meaning of the words is void, Progressive Rock does not progress, Symphonic Rock isn't symphonic and Arena Rock isn't exclusive to arenas (Ermm okay one step too far), and Post-Rock, Post-Punk and Post-metal are not what comes after Rock, Punk or Metal - they are just marketing names for movements within Rock for styles or attitudes of music, nothing more, nothing less. The wrong usage of a word by many people as a name of something means diddly-squat and is perfectly correct - whether that is contradictory or unnecessary in your opinion is not relevant, it's just the name of something - my car is called a Hyundai Tiburon in the USA - guess what - it's not a shark!
 
 
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lazland View Drop Down
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Points: 13896 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 12:49
I move that we start a post thread thread for those defunct issues we would love to re-flog to death.LOL
Enhance your life. Get down to www.lazland.org

Now also broadcasting on www.progzilla.com Every Saturday, 4.00 p.m. UK time!
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rushfan4 View Drop Down
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Points: 66827 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 12:57
Hmm...and to think that I thought it was called Post rock because the music was immobile and didn't go anywhere like a fence post.
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Points: 3167 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 14:44
I'm gonna hijack this thread right now. New topic.
Ivan. Who the fark is in the daisy costume and where can I listen to whatever music they are playing right now?
 
Post whatever. Stupid. Nowadays it seems like Post implies lots of ambience, build-up, and lots of ripping off Godspeed! You Black Emperor. Except normal prog already does that, so post-prog doesnt make sense to me.
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Triceratopsoil View Drop Down
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Points: 18016 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 14:48
Originally posted by Dean Dean wrote:

 
Sure post-prog is absurd, just as new prog is absurd - these are marketing terms at best and lazy journalism at worse.
 
 

And, hell, just as prog in the first place is absurd
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Sheavy View Drop Down
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Points: 2891 		Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2012 at 17:18
Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

Originally posted by Triceratopsoil Triceratopsoil wrote:

Originally posted by Ivan_Melgar_M Ivan_Melgar_M wrote:

 

The post Prog term is absurd IMO, because it implies:

  1. Something that comes after Prog
  2. Then obviously is not Prog
It could also implied that Prog has ended and this comes after prog...For example, the term post war means after the war, Prog is a living genre, it still exists. I understand partially this term in the case of Punk, because the pure form of Punk ended after a couple years, but in the case of Rock and Prog, there's no logic I believe.

The problem with your theory is that post-metal is very obviously metal

That's why I believe it's absurd

  1. If it's Post Metal, then it shouldn't be Metal
  2. If it sounds like Metal, it can't be post metal.
  3. Metal is not an extinct genre, so the term post is absurd
Iván
 
What? Rock isn't extinct an extinct genre.
 
NVM, should have finished reading the rest of the posts.


Edited by Sheavy - March 08 2012 at 17:20
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