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Nogbad_The_Bad View Drop Down
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Points: 21691 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Nogbad_The_Bad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2023 at 17:23
Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

one of the best lists on MS, it goes beyond a starter kit


Yikes thats for a metal head who doesn't want to stretch to much.
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Oops !
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Someone mentioned that rate your music is the internet's biggest music site. I thought the biggest one was this place! LOL Seriously, I thought the biggest one was allmusic. 

Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - March 16 2023 at 10:08
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Points: 19459 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AFlowerKingCrimson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 15 2023 at 18:37
Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

one of the best lists on MS, it goes beyond a starter kit


Yikes thats for a metal head who doesn't want to stretch to much.

I agree. That one seems to be about 80% prog metal.
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Points: 46985 		Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Cristi Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 16 2023 at 00:59
Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

one of the best lists on MS, it goes beyond a starter kit
Pwff...no Yes, ELP, Genesis or Gentle Giant in the first 100 listed ?
Useless ! Thumbs Down

you could have said you disliked the list without being rude. 
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Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Someone mentioned that rate your music is the internets biggest music site. I thought the biggest one was this place! LOL Seriously, I thought the biggest one was allmusic. 

Allmusic* once was the biggest, but not anymore. Metal Archives is about as big as them by now aand it's got 1/3rd the amount of total visits compared to RYM.

-Now that I actually checked the stats, Discogs is (obviously) the biggest one, Last FM second with RYM third. But I did mean the biggest community based/user driven site - similar to PA. Discogs is more about cataloging and selling/buying, far less about reviews/ratings/lists - and discussions. Last FM is... I don't really know. You can look at what people have been listening to during the last month, or something like that? No one goes there to read reviews or look at all time charts etc...RYMs by quite some distance the biggest iMDB-like site for music (but much  better).

*+Allmusic got reviewers on their payroll and their reviews/ratings is the only one visitors will be exposed to if you don' actively seek out user reviews. It's community is hidden and much less active. OK Computer got 1,652 reviews on RYM and 25 on Allmusic.
 
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

one of the best lists on MS, it goes beyond a starter kit
Pwff...no Yes, ELP, Genesis or Gentle Giant in the first 100 listed ?
Useless ! Thumbs Down

you could have said you disliked the list without being rude. 

I decided not to comment on your link, as I found it difficult not to be a little rude in doing so. It's easily the worst beginner's guide I've ever seen, and it's not even close. If you're not a total metalhead looking for prog metal it's completely useless. I skimmed the first 500 albums before I gave up, and noticed about three (or rather two and a half) classic era classics. 
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by JD JD wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

one of the best lists on MS, it goes beyond a starter kit
Pwff...no Yes, ELP, Genesis or Gentle Giant in the first 100 listed ?
Useless ! Thumbs Down

you could have said you disliked the list without being rude. 

I decided not to comment on your link, as I found it difficult not to be a little rude in doing so. It's easily the worst beginner's guide I've ever seen, and it's not even close. If you're not a total metalhead looking for prog metal it's completely useless. I skimmed the first 500 albums before I gave up, and noticed about three (or rather two and a half) classic era classics. 

I keep forgetting how unpopular progressive metal is sometimes around here. Ouch
There aren't many albums from the 70s, but there are a few later day prog albums. I thought it was a good list and share it, i was wrong. I see myself out. 
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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^It's not about prog metal's popularity - or lack thereof. It's supposed to be a beginner's guide to prog, but it clearly isn't. If someone posted a beginners guide to prog containing 497 jazz(& fusion)albums + 1 Jethro Tull, 1 King Crimson and 1 Rush-album, I would have thought the same.

Edited by Saperlipopette! - March 16 2023 at 02:40
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^It has nothing to do with prog metal's popularity or lack thereof. It supposed to be a beginner's guide to prog but it isn't. If it was a beginners guide to prog containing 497 jazz albums + 1 Jethro Tull, 1 King Crimson and 1 Rush-album I would have thought the same.

I meant it's unpopular here on PA forum. 
Like I said, there are a few essential prog albums in that list, classic and later day prog. And for anyone who wants to explore the progressive metal genre, a good place to start, that's all. 
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Actually, I'd recommend these 21 albums as a very good but yet minimum for a Prog starter kit:

Yes we know as you posted the exact same list a little further up on this page:)

Sorry, but I'm a bit more precise than you are.

I forgot to look, but now I remember who you are. Back to not interacting anymore.
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^It has nothing to do with prog metal's popularity or lack thereof. It supposed to be a beginner's guide to prog but it isn't. If it was a beginners guide to prog containing 497 jazz albums + 1 Jethro Tull, 1 King Crimson and 1 Rush-album I would have thought the same.

I meant it's unpopular here on PA forum. 
Like I said, there are a few essential prog albums in that list, classic and later day prog. And for anyone who wants to explore the progressive metal genre, a good place to start, that's all. 
I understood what you meant (and Prog Metal's relative unpopularity here is still beside the point). I'm not disagreeing with you that it could by a good place to start for anyone who wants to explore the prog metal genre. I'm not even quaified to have an opinion in that regard. Anyway I think I've stated clearly enough my opinion about that list, and why I think it's useless as a prog rock guide. No need to argue about it any further.
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Originally posted by Nogbad_The_Bad Nogbad_The_Bad wrote:

Have to say Paul that your definition of diversity and mine must be quite different if you think adding BJH, Camel, The Moody Blues, Procol Harum & Renaissance to the Big 6 covers the broad church of prog. SmileWink

Okay, here's my alternative Prog Starter Kit with one album chosen from each of twelve prog sub-genres:-

Agitation Free - Shibuya Nights: Live in Tokyo (Krautrock)
Dream Theater - Images and Words (Progressive Metal)
Jethro Tull - Living in the Past (Prog Folk)
Khan - Space Shanty (Canterbury Scene)
King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King (Eclectic Prog)
Mike Oldfield - Ommadawn (Crossover Prog)
Pallas - The Edge of Time (Neo Prog)
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon (Psychedelic/Space Rock)
Renaissance - Ashes Are Burning (Symphonic Prog)
Santana - Abraxas (Jazz Rock/Fusion)
Tangerine Dream - Stratosfear (Progressive Electronic)
Uriah Heep - Demons and Wizards (Heavy Prog)
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^A refreshing list from you, I must say. I think it does a better job at showing "all of" what Prog Rock can be and mean - than your first. Not meant as a complaint on you original post. This one is just closer to how I tried to appoach it myself, and I guess I personally enjoy more of these albums.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:


Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

I know this would have worked perfectly for a mini-me:). Heavy on the oldies, I know. But the 1970’s is a great place to start imo. All albums are in PA’s top 105.

King Crimson - In the Court of the Crimson King
Genesis - Nursery Cryme
Yes - Close to the Edge
Pink Floyd - Meddle
Jethro Tull - Aqualung
Van Der Graaf Generator - H to He Who Am the Only One
Gong - You
PFM - Storia Di Un Minuto
Frank Zappa - Hot Rats
Tangerine Dream - Rubycon
Tool - Lateralus
Opeth - Blackwater Park

if I allowed myself an additional dozen too, I'd probably try and push the noob a bit further down the rabbit hole and add something like:

Miles Davis - In a Silent Way
Magma - Kobaïa
Can - Future Days
Camel - Mirage
Robert Wyatt - Rock Bottom
Kraftwerk - Die Mensch-Maschine
Kate Bush - Hounds of Love
Dead Can Dance - Within the Realm of a Dying Sun
Talk Talk - Laughing Stock
Tortoise - Millions Now Living Will Never Die
Godspeed You Black Emperor! - Lift Yr. Skinny Fists Like Antennas to Heaven!
Radiohead - Kid A


These 24 make a very fine compromise between the basic stuff (i.e. generally acclaimed masterpieces) that is needed on such a list and some outstanding things that opened doors to some new worlds of music (or were the greatest treasures found behind such doors) at some points of my life for me personally. Outstanding list... not even sure I can come up with a good list myself that is different enough from this to be worth posting, but I'll try.


Edited by Lewian - March 16 2023 at 05:47
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Saperlipopette! View Drop Down
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^Thank you! I felt a lot more pleased when allowing myself these extra 12 albums. A Starter Kit part 1 & 2.
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OK, in order to not produce too much overlap with what is already there, I choose a different approach. I hope that our noob is up for the raw beauty of live albums (as I am) and has at least as good a probability to be drawn in in this way, so live albums only. This could well have worked for me, particularly also because many of these collect the best tracks of these bands. I follow the very valid approach to represent the Big 6 and two more rather mainstreamish live albums, but then I also show something different just to hint at the broad range of what there is to discover (of course following my own taste) with three albums from the 2000s, two of which are from third millenium bands.

Yes - Yessongs
Genesis - Live
Jethro Tull - Bursting Out
ELP - Welcome Back my Friends to the Show that Never Ends
King Crimson - Radical Action to Unseat the Hold of Monkey Mind
Pink Floyd - Ummagumma, live album
Gentle Giant - Playing the Fool
Renaissance - Live at Carnegie Hall
Cardiacs - All That Glitters is a Mare's Nest
Tangerine Dream - Ricochet
Sigur Ros - Inni
Anekdoten - Waking the Dead

To be honest, I think this is a bit too concept driven in the end, and if it were not for the sake of doing something really different and the noob had only asked me without having seen all the other lists, I may have recommended about 50% live albums, maybe a little below that, but there we go.


Edited by Lewian - March 16 2023 at 06:18
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

^It has nothing to do with prog metal's popularity or lack thereof. It supposed to be a beginner's guide to prog but it isn't. If it was a beginners guide to prog containing 497 jazz albums + 1 Jethro Tull, 1 King Crimson and 1 Rush-album I would have thought the same.

I meant it's unpopular here on PA forum. 
Like I said, there are a few essential prog albums in that list, classic and later day prog. And for anyone who wants to explore the progressive metal genre, a good place to start, that's all. 

actually there is nothing wrong with the top 15 of that list which is quite and nice and balanced, I think if you had specified that it would have helped. Its quite fun though to find gems like Fright Pig - Out Of The Barnyard and It Bites - The Tall Ships further down the ranking amongst all the prog metal Smile
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

The Mars Volta (USA) - DeLoused in the Comatorium (2003)
Magma (F) - Üdü Wüdü (1976)
Univers Zero (B) - Clivages (2010)
Those three albums would definitely put me off prog for life if they were my introduction to prog. Tongue

LOL  Okay, I'd say, that would be a very strong reaction, and maybe you would just think, that kind wasn't your cup of tea.
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Originally posted by Saperlipopette! Saperlipopette! wrote:

Originally posted by AFlowerKingCrimson AFlowerKingCrimson wrote:

Someone mentioned that rate your music is the internets biggest music site. I thought the biggest one was this place! LOL Seriously, I thought the biggest one was allmusic. 

Allmusic* once was the biggest, but not anymore. Metal Archives is about as big as them by now aand it's got 1/3rd the amount of total visits compared to RYM.

-Now that I actually checked the stats, Discogs is (obviously) the biggest one, Last FM second with RYM third. But I did mean the biggest community based/user driven site - similar to PA. Discogs is more about cataloging and selling/buying, far less about reviews/ratings/lists - and discussions. Last FM is... I don't really know. You can look at what people have been listening to during the last month, or something like that? No one goes there to read reviews or look at all time charts etc...RYMs by quite some distance the biggest iMDB-like site for music (but much  better).

*+Allmusic got reviewers on their payroll and their reviews/ratings is the only one visitors will be exposed to if you don' actively seek out user reviews. It's community is hidden and much less active. OK Computer got 1,652 reviews on RYM and 25 on Allmusic.
 

I didn't even think metal music archives is the biggest metal site. Aren't there metal sites that are bigger?

As for IMDB, it's good for films but it's not a music site. I use it quite a bit though and have no problem with i t.


Edited by AFlowerKingCrimson - March 16 2023 at 10:11
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