Progressive Rock: An Essay

RoyalJelly wrote:      I agree with much of the essay, but not the implication at the beginning that Progressive was something opposed to "accessible" music. I don't think the early prog musicians were necessarily trying to get away from what was accessible, but rather to expand the boundaries of what people were open to. At the time, it seemed possible to open the market to a broader concept of pop music.        Consider this quote from Eric Tamm's book on Robert Fripp:   "The multiplicity of levels evident in Beatles music continued to be an ideal that haunted Fripp in composing Lizard, even if he wasn't interested in copying the Beatles' style per se. "The only thing that worries me," he said, "is that perhaps it [Lizard] won't be given enough of a chance. We've made it so that the 24th time things'll really begin to go Zap. At the same time, when the album starts it should really hit you, so that you'll think perhaps there's something worth getting into." The problem here - I said something like this already - is that the Beatles managed to make their music likeable and infectious and seductive and entrancing on the first hearing; by the twenty-fourth hearing you were into the subtleties, but you listened to it twenty-four times because you wanted to."

Well said.

That was a very interesting read, thanks. 

bhikkhu wrote: You know, I hate to say it, but I think it is true. All signs point to a link between intelligence, and prog appreciation. I don't think your average "Americam Idol" viewer could even begin to write an essay like this (nor would it be likely to occur to them). I think it takes a fair amount of intelligence to understand prog.

What do you base that on? Prejudices? I guess the average American Idol watchers would be quite angry if you'd say that in front of them.

Imho, I've seen quite a lot of people on this forum not really showing their intelligence.

Frasse wrote: bhikkhu wrote: You know, I hate to say it, but I think it is true. All signs point to a link between intelligence, and prog appreciation. I don't think your average "Americam Idol" viewer could even begin to write an essay like this (nor would it be likely to occur to them). I think it takes a fair amount of intelligence to understand prog. What do you base that on? Prejudices? I guess the average American Idol watchers would be quite angry if you'd say that in front of them. Imho, I've seen quite a lot of people on this forum not really showing their intelligence.

I think he bases himself on his own experience or theorical conceptions, rather than prejudice alone. Don't know about American Idol, but I too have been given the impression that those listening to prog, in general, are more capable of discerning quality in music, since, in theory, prog isn't as stark or accessible as your average pop and mainstream songs, thus more arduous to "dismantle" and analize to understanding. Of course, there is no monolithic axiom that confirms it unquestionably, but, like I think he was trying to say, there is, unfortunately, a majority of cases (personal or collectively known) that follow that line of thought. Sad, but true.

^^^^^^^^^

Frasse wrote: Aspiring hope wrote: I think he bases himself on his own experience or theorical conceptions, rather than prejudice alone. Don't know about American Idol, but I too have been given the impression that those listening to prog, in general, are more capable of discerning quality in music, since, in theory, prog isn't as stark or accessible as your average pop and mainstream songs, thus more arduous to "dismantle" and analize to understanding. Of course, there is no monolithic axiom that confirms it unquestionably, but, like I think he was trying to say, there is, unfortunately, a majority of cases (personal or collectively known) that follow that line of thought. Sad, but true. I've heard something about the seven intelligences, one of them is musical intelligence. For me, being able to write a good song is to be musically intelligent. As well as a million selling pop song where you have to follow a lot of rules or a wonderfull prog-epic whith no rules. Mush of what is said in this thread seems to point at prog fans being musically smarter than pop fans. I don't know, I can't prove neither that or the opposite. That doesn't mean that prog fans are any more logical or social, or whatever the other 6 intelligeces where, than any other people. (I'm not smart enough to remember all the seven intelligences) I don't like the elitist approash taken by some. But I guess that's an essential part of being a community.

I don't think it is necessarily elitist to notice that there does seem to be a higher concentration of itelligence within a certain community. It is not a prerequisite for enjoying prog, it just seems to attract people who are more adept at complex, and abstract, thinking. That also does not mean that intelligent people do not enjoy other forms of music. However, does "American Idol' (to use my previous example) really require any high level functioning of the brain (this is applicaple to anybody, of any IQ level)? That is why it is so popular. It's just simple entertainment.

Oh, and I should also add that Frasse have given a very well thought out, and intelligent, counterpoint to my statements.

Edited by bhikkhu - July 19 2006 at 13:10

Sean Trane wrote: ^^^^^^^^^   I do agree that generally the progheads have a higher music analytical skill than other fans of different style.... sort of anyway     But stating such an observation (certainly no fact) is irritating at best

I understand your perspective (or so I think), but the argument here is defining the limits to theory, and, whereas it's not absolutely confirmed (assuming there are better ways to use time, other than proclaiming a portion of reality with little use to society) that people who devote their ears to prog are more intelligent (in the field of music), we can only account for that system through what we gain as data, from today's society. I, for one, do not take Man Overboard's opinion as a clear marking of elitism, as he doesn't openly assure it to be true, seeming to me that the speech itself is reserved to the majority of factors his own subjectivity is able to lay out; wouldn't find this to be entirely concrete, transcending more than speculative perspective, since there are prog fans that know less, more and/or as much of music (in its history and mechanisms) as the non-prog lovers - I for example, am too unripe in the subject, but it was when I started to take further interest in prog that a need to analize the music heard came; also, I know some people who prefer the non-prog genres and still understand and appreciate well elaborate music. It's never pleasant to draw a line to separate what shouldn't be considered factions, but, objectively, there is a difference and when you hear people "on the other side" comment openly with an assured ease that the drums are the easiest instrument to play, when the best he listens to is AC/DC and the most popular powermetal bands, you tend to develop some frustration towards the influence such bands yield to their audience. Sorry for bothering with this whole text, just trying to alleviate the mood here, by attempting to justify what seems to offend some, and handing my own opinion, as well.


Edited by Aspiring hope - July 20 2006 at 11:58

Interesting read.  I concur with the idea that people with musical inclinations are more likely to like progressive music.  I know that my choice in listening has long been based on how difficult the music was.  If I could play a song by ear in a few minutes, I lost interest in the piece.  To me, what makes progressive music interesting is the effort put into the music by the artists.  Because this music is more complicated, it may take several listens to grasp each piece, but by the same token, one can listen to it over and over and still get something out of it.  I suppose it is like good literature or a fine automobile - the more work that went into it, the longer one can enjoy it. 

I'm pleasantly surprised at how much conversation this has generated...  I figured it'd be like most of my posts and get 2 replies, one of which would be me. :P

I have argued many of these facts to my friends/family but none of them listen to me. A very true essay.