Tool overtakes DT on Top List

heyitsthatguy wrote: pirkka wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ It's funny ... in most classical pieces there is much more virtuosity than in Dream Theater songs. Yet DT get bashed for musical "w**kery', too many notes, not enough feeling etc.. Well, I guess that some people are simply not "musical" enough to be able to appreciate Prog Metal.   Like Waters said to young musicians: leave air in your music! Pause is an EXTREMELY important part of all good music. Metal music is usually a wall of loud sound that will finally kill anybody's interest and proggish metall just lasts longer! Aaaargh!   It is good for the metal boys to start taking steps towards musical world, and making proggish metal is such a step. But it does not mean that us, who already are in the musical world, should like or tolerate their effort.   Pirkka Do you realize how condescending you sound? If I recall correctly, most of Dream Theater's albums in some form or enother meet enough standards of prog's definitiion to be considered prog. I don't care if you dislike or even hate them, but you can't overgeneralize and say that progmetal is not actually progressive music. Granted, sometimes the guitarists can go a little overboard, but that is no reason to say that it cannot be progressive. (waiting for Teaflax to descend upon me with a fiery hail of rebuttal)

OpethGuitarist wrote: pirkka wrote: I would not be sad if metal was completely banned from this site. It does not belong to prog anyway. Prog is complex and musically challneging usually esthetically rewarding whereas metal is simple straight forward music for people less musically educated or cultivated. I'm afraid that, as punk killed music in the eighties, metal will do it in our time.   Pirkka   Ps. Don't say that you stupid old fart, you don't know...I do know... I do have listened metal and I do own metal albums from Gamma Ray, Tool, Opeth, Deadsoul Tribe, Elegy, Hawkwind, Finntroll, Ensiferum even Lordi  ... and Metallica (which is great) and from the very beginning Black Sabbath (I was an angry young man when Ozzie started it all). It seems to me like someone is a little ignorant, and when you don't understand something,  you tend to not like it.

MikeEnRegalia wrote: ivansfr0st wrote: OpethGuitarist wrote: I also am amazed not necessarily at the elitism here, but at the stubbornness. Maybe this site isn't for me. I am one who loves my music, but I am not stubborn enough to write everything off.   I had the same thoughts in my head when I joined; now look, I ended up as a full-time member and a part of active collaborators here. Just remember that no matter how far you go in arguments and explaining people that they are wrong, you still won't change the stereotypical perception of the people. You tell a person that there is more to Prog-Metal than DT and Tool, they nod their heads enlightened, after a few days you'll get a dozen of similar threads with samey views again.   To bother to explain the same thing once and all over again or not is the question, but I've given it up. Let's see how long your enthusiasm will last for.    -- Ivan The problem is that a forum is not the appropriate place if you want to tell people how you feel about something "once and for all time". In a few days the thread will be gone ... few will remember, and new members join who don't even know that something has been discussed before.

    

pirkka wrote: And who are you to say that I am grumpy?   It's always hard to talk to prejudiced youngsters who have only little experience of everything...   Pirkka

I am older, and have a bit of experience. However, I would never think that I could not learn from a younger person. It is these types of statements that make people take offense, and makes you seem grumpy.

I still have yet to hear any prog metal that I care to listen to. I don't condemn you guys for liking it, but I do have trouble considering it very prog-like. I too like some metal. Black Sabbath is one of my favorites, and I hear more prog elements in their music than any of the newer bands I have heard.

Bah, these fights kill the productive discussion. Before it was prog-metal x old-prog. Now it is prog-metal x metal.

Anyway, in my opinion it is sad that Tool is so high regarded over the other prog metal bands because it is the band more linked to the popular nu-metal movement, that has nothing to do with progressive rock. But after I have read the reviews of 10,000 days few days after its release, I undestood everything. Reviews were like:

" I bought this album yesterday and it´s a complete masterpiece", "I bought this album today, listened till the track 7 and it surely deserves 5 stars, because Tool is fantastic", "I will buy this album tomorrow, but I know that it will deserve five stars, because it is Tool, so I´m reviewing it now".

DT had many reviews like this one, but I think since there are many symphonic prog, art-rock and other genres fans that listen to DT and review DT (and many DT haters that give 1 star without knowing about the existence of the album), the result is nearer than the overall taste than with Tool, which many symphonic prog and art-rock fans simply ignore.

It will take some time till the things get in place again (or Tool earn a "legion of haters" or other people get into Tool´s music).

that is what I think.

I'm actually really starting to hate seeing Metal on this site. I don't think it belongs on here. I like Dream Theater, Angra, Opeth, Death, Shadow Gallery, Pain of Salvation, Devin Townsend, Porcupine Tree, etc. -- but if I'm in a "PROG" mood, I don't listen to these bands. That's because prog metal is a subgenre of Metal -- not Prog.

Well, thanks to this post, Lateralus has dropped .03 points within 8 hours. I do not care that it dropped that many points or that is below SFAM (I like that album a lot, too!), I care that the ratings were just made by DT fanboys abusing the site's rating system. That's not why it's here. It's here to allow members to express their honest opinions of a piece of music they have listened to.

Even if you don't like it, is it really worth 1 star?


Edited by YYZed - July 29 2006 at 18:04

*pouts around*

pirkka wrote: heyitsthatguy wrote: pirkka wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ It's funny ... in most classical pieces there is much more virtuosity than in Dream Theater songs. Yet DT get bashed for musical "w**kery', too many notes, not enough feeling etc.. Well, I guess that some people are simply not "musical" enough to be able to appreciate Prog Metal.   Like Waters said to young musicians: leave air in your music! Pause is an EXTREMELY important part of all good music. Metal music is usually a wall of loud sound that will finally kill anybody's interest and proggish metall just lasts longer! Aaaargh!   It is good for the metal boys to start taking steps towards musical world, and making proggish metal is such a step. But it does not mean that us, who already are in the musical world, should like or tolerate their effort.   Pirkka Do you realize how condescending you sound? If I recall correctly, most of Dream Theater's albums in some form or enother meet enough standards of prog's definitiion to be considered prog. I don't care if you dislike or even hate them, but you can't overgeneralize and say that progmetal is not actually progressive music. Granted, sometimes the guitarists can go a little overboard, but that is no reason to say that it cannot be progressive. (waiting for Teaflax to descend upon me with a fiery hail of rebuttal)   You didn't read the thread, did you? Who says we are talking about DT. For me it is great prog with a strong metal flavour and several albums I rate 5!.   I was talkin about proggish METAL. A different cup of tea!   Pirkka

OOOOohh, sorry about the misunderstanding. I was just trying to say that progmetal is a part of prog, which a looot of people on this site seem to have a problem with. And I too think that pauses in music are just as important as the notes played. Pink Floyd is one of my favorite bands, and you dont see them ever tearing up the fretboards at a thousand miles an hour. Again, I apologize and didn't mean to come off as attacking someone

pirkka,

I'd be interested to here what bands you consider Prog with metal influences and vice versa.