Prog musicians juggling music career and work?

rogerthat wrote:   And musicians aren't asking for any government support to help them carry on their existence; all they want is to be paid for a work and I know that every full time corporate warrior lecturing musicians to be selfless would hate to be in a position where they can't get paid anything for their work.

rogerthat wrote: ssmarcus wrote: rogerthat wrote:   And musicians aren't asking for any government support to help them carry on their existence; all they want is to be paid for a work and I know that every full time corporate warrior lecturing musicians to be selfless would hate to be in a position where they can't get paid anything for their work.  But that's just it, a full time corporate warrior will not continue to work in a job or industry that isn't paying. I personally made the switch from finance to tech precisely because the route I was on in finance was not paying off DESPITE the fact that I much prefer finance to tech.  Here's the harsh reality that musicians refuse to live up to - that the value of their labor is no less subject to supply and demand. And right now, there are WAYYYY too many musicians eager to give their services than music consumers are willing to consume. Art, or at least valuable art, is the product of a society deciding to "waste" scarce resources on something that has a value that exceeds the utilitarian. But today's advanced economies are capable of pumping out musicians like a Ford assembly line. In other words, being a musician and consuming music are really not that special anymore. And the economics prove it...  I would agree with you if people were paying for WHAT they DO listen to....And THAT is the hypocrisy.  If people were NOT enjoying the fruits of a musician's hard work and therefore didn't pay, that would be just fine and apt for your analogy.  This is like you get 12 hours of work out of an employee and then tell him you don't have to pay because you already downloaded his work or something.

Well if we're considering art from a commercial standpoint here (from the perspective of artists who want to make money off of their creations), and the demand is low, it seems the only way to increase that demand is to convince consumers they want or need this product. And since streaming isn't going away, then that would mean enticing consumers to live performances. Or some other equivalent to that, such as paying for a subscription through Twitch or something and watching a livestream (which is more feasible during pandemic times anyway).

I'm going to ignore Mosh on this one due to him believing "fear" is what's stopping musicians nowadays (plus the usual ad hominem stuff he comes up with.) (Mosh, look beyond the person and at the actual big picture here.) 

It's not "fear"
It's "reality". 

(3) So, what are the options ?

Well. I really like jamming with other people. I hate playing live, by the way. I'm actually a very shy person (oh yes really) - I don't want fame, adulation or whatever and I'm too fat to crowd surf. ;-) 

You'll find, however, that it's very difficult to jam with other like minded people, simply because *proper"musicians are hard to find at the best of times.

Now excuse me for sounding elitist, but it's OK to be elitist if you are hem hem part of the perhaps 2% of musicians who can improvise. Most can just learn by rote and play tab.

"Hey, do you want to jam along to Black Magic Woman ? " 
"No, f&ck off, numb nuts."

If you think prog rock is played by low quality musicians who can't improvise or write a song, think again. So it's incredibly difficult to find like minded musicians, it even was in the 1970's. Now, everyone is much older with family and kids and commitments. And no one came along to replace them - not in numbers great enough to form clusters who could play with each other, anyway. (It's like a species becoming extinct as there's not enough animals close together to breed.) 

So, basically, (a) if I stay in a bedroom, I produce stuff I'm not happy with (b) if I go looking for other musicians to go jamming with, I'll be extremely lucky to find any (c) playing a gig is absolutely impossible due to there being no fans and no money (d) streaming, etc, forget it, no one buys music as well and (e) the only option I see.....

PS When I read Mosh's comment about how musicians were going to have to "learn how to use the internet" to presumably make money or become famous, I had to laugh. 

Or about "business and accounting".

He might find it bizarre that "soime folks are afraid of the future" because he doesn't even understand the present. Not a clue. 

And the future will be far, far worse. 

Oh yeah, PS, final word here - 

MOSH - "You got to appreciate someone like Dave, and his work, but at that point his character and attitude online is very important and needs to be positive and hopeful ... not negative"

ME - "You senile old fart". 

Positive enough ? ;-)

Pipe dreams are for pipe smokers, then again, I've been smoking a pipe for 15 years. ;-)

Here's how I'd do it. 

Firstly, I don't think you need a full venue, ie. with gig space. (Nice to have, though.) I'd be tempted to set up a completely free rehearsal space for *invited* musicians only. That means they all get auditioned. The space is totally free, "turn up and jam" any time, you can put basic equipment in if you feel the need. 

Edited by Davesax1965 - August 23 2020 at 03:23

Interesting stuff. When it comes to choosing members, I had a similar philosophy. But I never thought about incorporating a specific space with memberships. Props to you.

Davesax1965 wrote: I'm going to ignore Mosh on this one due to him believing "fear" is what's stopping musicians nowadays (plus the usual ad hominem stuff he comes up with.) (Mosh, look beyond the person and at the actual big picture here.)  It's not "fear" It's "reality".  ...