Progressive Rock: An Essay

Here are some interesting essays by Sir Millard Mulch (included in archives) about the music industry and some errr... "other stuff" if you're bored out of your mind

http://sirmillardmulch.com/writings.php




Edited by Hierophant - July 20 2006 at 04:22

Sean Trane wrote: Aspiring hope wrote: I understand your perspective (or so I think), but the argument here is defining the limits to theory, and, whereas it's not absolutely confirmed (assuming there are better ways to use time, other than proclaiming a portion of reality with little use to society) that people who devote their ears to prog are more intelligent (in the field of music) >>> maybe so , but does that make them more brilliant in other subjects or fields of interest >>>> not really so if I judge by the number of self-declared loosers on this forum >>> and there is a bunch of them >> believe me! I apologize if that was what I said, though, I don't agree with the idea that progfans (or merely people of considerable knowledge and wit related to music's appreciation) are more successful or intelligent than others who cannot claim such quality, but as I tried to imply, the intelligence I refered to was confined to musical aptitude in passive (listeners) and active (musicians) interaction. Again, I'm sorry for my poorly elaborate and apparently confusing means of expression, but I tried to keep my opinion related to music's field of interest, since there are more subjects one needs to rely on in order to determine how intelligent a person can be, on an objective analisis - I solely regarded music, considering it a form of intelligence. I'm not a winner myself, either, yet I enjoy prog music...although, I'm not exactly brilliant towards the subject, as well. we can only account for that system through what we gain as data, from today's society. I, for one, do not take Man Overboard's opinion as a clear marking of elitism, as he doesn't openly assure it to be true, seeming to me that the speech itself is reserved to the majority of factors his own subjectivity is able to lay out; wouldn't find this to be entirely concrete, transcending more than speculative perspective, since there are prog fans that know less, more and/or as much of music (in its history and mechanisms) as the non-prog lovers - I for example, am too unripe in the subject, but it was when I started to take further interest in prog that a need to analize the music heard came; also, I know some people who prefer the non-prog genres and still understand and appreciate well elaborate music. It's never pleasant to draw a line to separate what shouldn't be considered factions, but, objectively, there is a difference and when you hear people "on the other side" comment openly with an assured ease that the drums are the easiest instrument to play, when the best he listens to is AC/DC and the most popular powermetal bands, you tend to develop some frustration towards the influence such bands yield to their audience. Sorry for bothering with this whole text, just trying to alleviate the mood here, by attempting to justify what seems to offend some, and handing my own opinion, as well.   Dear Dr Asp Hope,     My girlfriend knows next to nothing about music and thart does not stop her from liking Genesis or Fairport Convention as well as Celine Dion >> do you think she has lapse of dumbness , doctor??? or does she suffer from momentaneous loss of brilliance and reason and regresses deeply once she hears music that she loves without any distinction of the respective merits of the different songs?                     do you not see that people of American Idol simply do not accord any importance in the seriousness of the music they listen , simply because they do not give a hoot that Genesis' Turn It Off Again is in 13/8??? >>> maybe we are the sad excuses in his mind> Does the fact that he does not enjoy Henry Cow make him a twit for the rest of his life?     THINK ABOUT IT !!!!

First of all, thank you for refering to me as "Dr", even though that's not really appropriate and the sarcasm probably implies I'm a pretentious, know-it-all, arrogant self-proclaimed pseudo-intellectual, as a lot of people most likely share the same view. As I said, I'm not relating (or not intending to relate) people's whole cerebral capacity with their interpretation of music - apologize if so was understood. Thus, of course your girlfriend doesn't suffer from momentaneous loss of brilliance, nor will anyone do so, when taking a listen to simplistic songs, because the human mind is more complex than what that ridiculous possibility hints for; infact, one who is already enlightened in the musical field, can listen to such tracks and remain the same, in whatever level he/she has defined. What you usefully point out, though, is the presence of one's taste in appreciating music, which doesn't necessarily rely on its quality, but how it affects the listenerer primarly; acknowledging the varieties of personalities, amongst the vastly different people, it's obvious one can enjoy whatever sort of melody is listened to, without concretely evaluate it, be it at whatever level there is. Take, for instance the so called golden era: perhaps, many of those listening to high quality bands ignored how great it was, but that never stopped anyone from loving what was heard, too. I think the point here, though, was mentioning that a lot of people, nowadays, do not care over what is presented to them and simply resort to what they feel about what they hear, as an outer layer of sound, to judge what artists work on - not a necessary ailment and flaw of greater importance than what some may want to see as (quite positive, in a way), but nevertheless sad, because there is always a side of us that would wish to have more people to converse about music with, and many take a misguided perspective of what you see, as well. Sometimes one feels subjectivity is what keeps the industry flowing, not the spirit or "truth". Again, sorry for the misunderstanding there, don't know if this was any more clarifying than the last, but I'll hope so.


Edited by Aspiring hope - July 20 2006 at 11:55

Sean Trane wrote: Aspiring hope wrote: Sean Trane wrote: Aspiring hope wrote: I apologize if that was what I said, though, I don't agree with the idea that progfans (or merely people of considerable knowledge and wit related to music's appreciation) are more successful or intelligent than others who cannot claim such quality, but as I tried to imply, the intelligence I refered to was confined to musical aptitude in passive (listeners) and active (musicians) interaction. Again, I'm sorry for my poorly elaborate and apparently confusing means of expression, but I tried to keep my opinion related to music's field of interest, since there are more subjects one needs to rely on in order to determine how intelligent a person can be, on an objective analisis - I solely regarded music, considering it a form of intelligence. I'm not a winner myself, either, yet I enjoy prog music...although, I'm not exactly brilliant towards the subject, as well. >>> don't worry about it, I do not come clearly across myself sometimes. Actually it was not a comment from you that sparked my furor >> I had intended to ignore the thread first after reading it.              First of all, thank you for refering to me as "Dr", even though that's not really appropriate and the sarcasm probably implies I'm a pretentious, know-it-all, arrogant self-proclaimed pseudo-intellectual. >>> Sorry for the corrosive humour, did not mean to hurt any feelings       As I said, I'm not relating (or not intending to relate) people's whole cerebral capacity with their interpretation of music - apologize if so was understood. Thus, of course your girlfriend doesn't suffer from momentaneous loss of brilliance, nor will anyone do so, when taking a listen to simplistic songs, because the human mind is more complex than what that ridiculous possibility hints for; infact, one who is already enlightened in the musical field, can listen to such tracks and remain the same, in whatever level he/she has defined. What you usefully point out, though, is the presence of one's taste in appreciating music, which doesn't necessarily rely on its quality, but how it affects the listenerer primarly; acknowledging the varieties of personalities, amongst the vastly different people, it's obvious one can enjoy whatever sort of melody is listened to, without concretely evaluate it, be it at whatever level there is. >>> I can fully appreciate this and understand your position and previous comments  >>> and my girlfriend can lack brilliance, because if she was so brilliant, what the hell is she doing with me and my music     Take, for instance the so called golden era: perhaps, many of those listening to high quality bands ignored how great it was, but that never stopped anyone from loving what was heard, too. >>> I do not know how old you are but while I was listening in the 70's to Yes and Genesis, KC etc... I was also listening to Blues-rock, AOR, Punk, some funk (you oughta listen to Chic and Funkadelic to appreciate just how excellent these guys were), but also Chanson Fran�aise and I could not avoid Abba through Girlfriends) >> the point is that we were simply not being selective and I certainly avoided talking superiorly to others about my musical tastes being better (well we did get on the case of disco boys being gay and all, but we were young).    But what I would like to avoid is younger progheads acting superior and denigrating other's tastes on the sole base that prog is more intelligent a music. As I pointed out (here or elsewhere), there is plenty of loosers in prog circles and there are plenty of intelligent rap-loving fans.         I think the point here, though, was mentioning that a lot of people, nowadays, do not care over what is presented to them and simply resort to what they feel about what they hear, as an outer layer of sound, to judge what artists work on - not a necessary ailment and flaw of greater importance than what some may want to see as (quite positive, in a way), but nevertheless sad, because there is always a side of us that would wish to have more people to converse about music with, and many take a misguided perspective of what you see, as well. Sometimes one feels subjectivity is what keeps the industry flowing, not the spirit or "truth".   Again, sorry for the misunderstanding there, don't know if this was any more clarifying than the last, but I'll hope so. >>> All but forgotten

Ok, someone is bound to come down to Portugal to shoot me for occupying this much space in the thread, but just wanted to thank for being understanding, towards the point I was trying to make. Don't think our opinions are too different either, in the sense that's it not how much a person knows about music (or any other form of culture and intelligence) that'll abruptly have them elevated to a status of superiority. It'll be useless in your professional life (unless you choose it as a profession), as surely writing on your CV that you like Yes or Led Zeppelin and that you can easily discern how great a band can be, won't impress your boss (unless he's a musician). There are girls in my class loving Avril Lavigne and some are addictive to emo, but, no matter how bad those bands are objectively and how blind to see it they are, it's not so important - taste reveals personality, if anything -, and while they're different than me on that subject, they have much more possibilities of becoming successful in life. Infact, considering the younger progheads like me may still be in highschool, they don't have as much achievements to show for to act superior towards any other people - not calling anyone a loser here -, but, yeah, as it's sad to see some reject your music because they don't understand it, it's equally disturbing to find others acting lofty just because they listen to something better...well, it's disturbing to find people lofty about anything, really...except, perhaps, Mourinho, from Chelsea. It's important to realize that if you don't enjoy yourself listening to good music (prog or not), then there's not much to be proud about listening to it, if not for recognising quality regardless of your opinion, also, heard Chic (I think, if you're not talking about someone else), in the Dazed and Confused cd featuring Jimmy Page and a lot of great guitarists - sorry, don't know the exact designation - and I like it very much, at first, regardless of whether or not it's genius songwriting. Ok, I stretched this too much just to say I agree with you at a good extent, and you defend valid points that one mustn't yet forget, in these discussions. Also, thanks for being comprehensive and a good sport about all of this, and sorry for all these troublesome posts (this will be the last on this thread, I promise).


Edited by Aspiring hope - July 20 2006 at 14:09