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thehallway 
Prog Reviewer
Joined: April 13 2010
Location: Dorset, England
Status: Offline
Points: 1433
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 Posted: January 22 2011 at 15:00 |
Haha I don't want to get into a debate about whether virtuosic noodling is more acceptable live or in the studio. But certainly drum solos are in danger of being unnecessary. An exception would be Carl Palmer's Tank because the drum solo is another section of the song in that instance, a progression if you like.
In any case, I have personally discovered that showboating doesn't bother me.  |
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mmmreesescups
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 21 2009
Location: New York
Status: Offline
Points: 100
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Posted: January 22 2011 at 18:14 |
 moshkito wrote:
mmmreesescups wrote:
mono wrote:
- Clean, subtle and groovy drums
- Use of odd time signatures
- Dirty guitars
- Thick ambiances
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Excuse the double post, but this too! I can't stand hearing something that's predictable and babies you through all the parts of the song. |
Ohhh the shame ... no Wagner or Puccini, or Verdi for you then ... and goodbye Italian progressive music, too! |
Doesn't mean I'm opposed to anything without these elements.
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krimson62
Forum Groupie
Joined: April 18 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 95
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Posted: January 23 2011 at 19:38 |
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for me its the unexpected , like Gary Green's mini solo in Just the same
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mono
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 12 2005
Location: Paris, France
Status: Offline
Points: 652
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 04:15 |
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may i remind people here (moshkito) that the topic is listing your 'weak spots' not what you look for in music...
I also almost forgot:
- A raging Rhodes
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https://soundcloud.com/why-music Prog trio, from ambiant to violence
https://soundcloud.com/m0n0-film Film music and production projects
https://soundcloud.com/fadisaliba (almost) everything else
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hobocamp
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2010
Location: Fine Furniture
Status: Offline
Points: 525
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 09:28 |
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Mellotrons/synthesized mellotrons. Even in non prog. Zeps Rain Song and Gabriels Darkness come to mind.
Edited by hobocamp - January 24 2011 at 09:31
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18890
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Posted: January 24 2011 at 14:27 |
thehallway wrote:
The common thing here is drums.
That's because a band is only as good as its drummer (whoever said that?)
Personally I also like songs with really interesting structures with loads of different sections that keep comng, going, and returning. If I don't know where I stand with the structure then I usually can't enjoy the individual themes (unless it's an improvisation).
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I don't know ... if that was the case, we would be saying that Keith Moon and Bonzo were the best and most progressive drummers around, since they were probably the first to really break the rules as to what drumming really was all about, and not conventional in the music teaching area of the instrument.
In general, the drumming in most progressive things, are the most disappointing part of it all for me, when all the drummer does is depend on the snare drum every 4th beat ... and not help "free the music" (as I call it) from the beat and allow it to flow into other areas and the like. And this is something that most drummers are NOT capable of doing, and always return to the beat keeping part of the music, which for me, hurts it ... and prevents it from flowing further.
It's not about one musician, and this is important ... it's about the totality of the work and the music, and the players are the ones that make the music work ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Rottenhat
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 14 2006
Location: Finland
Status: Offline
Points: 436
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 12:30 |
Moshkito (and thehallway), have you heard any of David Kerman's drumming? He is the unsung hero of drumming. Atop of that he is an excellent multi-intrumentalist and composer. Get some 5uu's, and enjoy!
Edited by Rottenhat - January 26 2011 at 12:33
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Language is a virus from outer space.
-William S. Burroughs
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The Pessimist
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 13 2007
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 3834
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 13:14 |
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Something harmonically that I've never heard before, tightness (that goes for any music actually), creativity and generally musicians that play for the music and not just themselves.
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"Market value is irrelevant to intrinsic value."
Arnold Schoenberg
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18890
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 15:02 |
The Pessimist wrote:
Something harmonically that I've never heard before, tightness (that goes for any music actually), creativity and generally musicians that play for the music and not just themselves. |
You want to put on Gong's You and listen to Pierre Moerlin on the two long cuts next to each other on side 1 ... I'm not sure that anyone can teach that, and I'm not sure that is about "drumming!" ... or you can catch him on Mike Oldfield's DVD called "Exposed" ... to see what a master percussionist can do that many others can not! ...
I still think that if we think that "prog" is about one instrument or some kind of musical this or that ... that we have lost the sight of what the music is all about.
Edited by moshkito - January 31 2011 at 14:14
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Guldbamsen
Special Collaborator
Retired Admin
Joined: January 22 2009
Location: Magic Theatre
Status: Offline
Points: 23147
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 18:23 |
Rather difficult to pin down really, but I love the unexpected. Being a drummer I am also very susceptible to grooves, and when I´m talking about grooves, I mean that you can actually hear the percussionist laying all of his body and soul into the beat, whilst still being a part of the band playing melodies - fx like Phil Collins did. Then again I am over the moon for Yoshida Tatsuya of Korekyojinn, and he is an altogether different kind of animal.Other things that make me go slurp: Wah wah, moog solos, long deep grunts from a sax and songs about bears. Countless more but I need to sleep.
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RoyFairbank
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 07 2008
Location: Somewhere
Status: Offline
Points: 1072
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Posted: January 26 2011 at 20:07 |
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Progressive things that draw me in are dark and soaring moods, slowly unfolding and patient music.
On the other hand I am a sucker for 80s synths and production values. I really love that sound, even stuff like the Fairlight which is so derided nowadays.
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King Crimson776
Forum Senior Member
Joined: October 12 2007
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 2779
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Posted: January 29 2011 at 16:57 |
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Epic symphonic structure, jazzy melodies/harmonies, lush instrumentation, Beatlesque tunes... a whole list of harder to define things as well I'm sure.
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: January 31 2011 at 01:52 |
The Pessimist wrote:
Something harmonically that I've never heard before, tightness (that goes for any music actually), creativity and generally musicians that play for the music and not just themselves.
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New harmonies are also one of my main interests, couldn't find the words for it myself.
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friso
Prog Reviewer
Joined: October 24 2007
Location: Netherlands
Status: Offline
Points: 2506
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Posted: January 31 2011 at 01:55 |
King Crimson776 wrote:
Epic symphonic structure, jazzy melodies/harmonies, lush instrumentation, Beatlesque tunes... a whole list of harder to define things as well I'm sure. |
Defining those precise musical elements that make you go for it is indeed very hard. Music is a language on its own, and it's sometimes hard to translate it to words.
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PlumAplomb
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 03 2011
Location: pa
Status: Offline
Points: 172
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Posted: January 31 2011 at 08:31 |
friso wrote:
King Crimson776 wrote:
Epic symphonic structure, jazzy melodies/harmonies, lush instrumentation, Beatlesque tunes... a whole list of harder to define things as well I'm sure. |
Defining those precise musical elements that make you go for it is indeed very hard. Music is a language on its own, and it's sometimes hard to translate it to words. |
indeed, when music takes me to 'that' place i'm all about it. to be incredibly cheesy, when i'm listening to something and it feels like my soul is soaring and i feel magical is when music really gets me, when i feel like a spiritual powerful being. and to be honest, symphnic prog and classical do that to me more than any music i have, sometimes it's hard to listen to when it ellicits so many emotional responses.
Edited by PlumAplomb - January 31 2011 at 08:32
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la la la and a bottle of plum!
and when it lands
will my eyes
be closed or open?
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topographicbroadways
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 20 2010
Location: Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 5575
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Posted: January 31 2011 at 12:28 |
It's strange my favourite bands are all ones that took time for me to get into and appreciate their music.
Most of the music i fall for instantly when i hear it is stuff that i tend to listen to less often, mostly recent stuff like Transatlantic,The Tangent, The Mars Volta all of whom i obsessed over for a few weeks after hearing and now only listen to once every few months.
So i guess the elements I enjoy instantly are heavy prog with symphonic qualities, but these are not elements i can listen to constantly.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18890
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Posted: January 31 2011 at 17:55 |
RoyFairbank wrote:
Progressive things that draw me in are dark and soaring moods, slowly unfolding and patient music.
On the other hand I am a sucker for 80s synths and production values. I really love that sound, even stuff like the Fairlight which is so derided nowadays.
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Gotta tie you up for the Djam Karet fan club ... !!!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member
Joined: January 04 2007
Location: Grok City
Status: Offline
Points: 18890
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Posted: January 31 2011 at 18:14 |
friso wrote:
The Pessimist wrote:
Something harmonically that I've never heard before, tightness (that goes for any music actually), creativity and generally musicians that play for the music and not just themselves.
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New harmonies are also one of my main interests, couldn't find the words for it myself. |
It's very tough, though, and I would not just make a connection to "harmonies", because the term itself suggests that there are only so many harmonic possibilities given the western music code.
In general, suggesting one of the many things that can be a part of any music ... specially "harmony" which is the single thing that attracts people to music the most ... is tough, and I personally do not tie up a feeling to something like that. I can tell you that Gismonti does with harmonics in his guitars what most people dream of hearing in their life times ... but who's listening, and who cares and is it prog? See the real problem? ... it's not the detail ... it's the "style" that is preventing people from listening to different things.
Does a Picasso paint for himself? ... Does Stravinsky compose for himself?
I don't think so ... and I believe ... (I'm a writer and I know what I see kind of thing inside of my piece) ... that we do this for OUR VISION ... not for me ... it's the inner movie and sometimes we do the best we can to illuminate that movie ... and if I spent time waiting for people to understand my telling you that I see purple but you are telling me I'm crazy because you see blue ... I would have quit a long time ago and left this earth ... not worth the hassle of the even the idea!
Today, is a very "commercial" world and environment and with the Internet, it is making it really difficult to clear up these definitions, but it is "fair" to say that an artist is doing it for himself/herself, but I am not sure that is always the issue or the problem at all. There is a lot of literature about this kind of stuff and relationships between various people and these discussions, but in the end ... it's just the way it is ... and it is not for me, any more than it is for you ... although the commercial society that we live in makes it look like I have to paint, play and write for you, so you can pay me ... and that is television and blockbusters ... not art! And my favorite in that are is ... it's entertainment" because you and I are too stupid and bored to even know how to enjoy ourselves ... which tells you the "excuse" that ripping you off (now in 3D) is excusable! ... don't get me started on Metallica!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com
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Luna
Forum Senior Member
Joined: July 28 2010
Location: Funky Town
Status: Offline
Points: 12794
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Posted: January 31 2011 at 18:40 |
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Awesome Packaging (?) If i see a prog album that has an amazing album cover, or a special edition CD, I'll be sure to get my hands on it.
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sturoc1
Forum Newbie
Joined: March 19 2008
Location: Colorado USA
Status: Offline
Points: 31
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Posted: April 05 2011 at 00:23 |
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I cannot put it into words but here are a few examples that "got me":
Steve Hackett's solo in his version of 'Your Own Special Way'
Renaissance the quiet middle passage where Annie sings in 'Can You Hear Me'
Caravan organ solo in 'Girls Who Grow Plump....'
ELP Welcome Back Live Lp Greg singing 'Battlefield ' in Tarkus.
PFM live Japan :guitar in 'River of Life', First verses of 'Photos of Ghosts', Guitar solo 'AltaLoma 5 to 9'
APP the entire 'I Robot'
Yes Live the quiet vocal section in "Close To The Edge"
....to name a few. there many other moments though for me.
And the tracks are not ones that I listen to all the time, every other day etc.
They are saved for special places , moments etc.
Edited by sturoc1 - April 05 2011 at 00:27
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