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Vibrationbaby
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 13 2004
Status: Offline
Points: 6898
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 18:53 |
I haven`t read down through this whole thread but one of my Australian Cattle dogs, Harriet ( you guessed it the other ones`name is Ozzy ) ENJOYS progressive rock immensly. Oddly, one of her favourite albums is TFTO. My vet, not being familiar with the themes and music presented on the album, can`t explain this phenomenom to me so I`m wondering if there are any armchair dog psychiatrists out there in PA land who could offer any explanations or evaluations for my dogs` prog preferance.
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Poser
Forum Senior Member
Joined: August 31 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 121
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 18:55 |
I suppose being called a chick is better than indirectly being called an Australian cattle dog.
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Statutory-Mike
Forum Senior Member
Joined: February 15 2008
Location: Long Island
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
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Posted: February 20 2008 at 22:37 |
Women go to clubs and like to dance...it is a little difficult to dance to something alternating 6/8 and 7/8  .
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Oceansizzle
Forum Groupie
Joined: October 15 2007
Location: Texas
Status: Offline
Points: 85
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 02:22 |
i got one of my female friends listening to SOME prog...but stuff thats not extremely progressive like Radiohead, Oceansize, Dredg, earlier Porcupine Tree, Pink Floyd, and alot of post-rock. I cant see her listening to and enjoying Genesis, ELP, King Crimson, PFM or Focus.
I think one reason is that there are less females that are REALLY into playing an instrument like the guitar, bass, or drums. A good amount of people that are fanatics of prog are musicians and huge connoisseurs of virtuoso instrumentalists. Those are just my thoughts and observations though...and this might have already been mentioned. I didn't read all the posts yet, just the first page.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer
Joined: June 02 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10266
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 04:25 |
MisterProg2112 wrote:
Women go to clubs and like to dance...it is a little difficult to dance to something alternating 6/8 and 7/8 . |
Not at all; you should see Jean and me do it.
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 BaldJean and I; I am the one in blue.
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Sckxyss
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 05 2007
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 1319
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 04:53 |
MisterProg2112 wrote:
Women go to clubs and like to dance...it is a little difficult to dance to something alternating 6/8 and 7/8 . |
I agree, but I'll admit I've also found myself dancing along to Faust's "Laüft...Heisst Das Es Laüft Oder Es Kommt Bald...Laüft", which follows that exact meter  .
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 04:59 |
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24439
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 05:24 |
MisterProg2112 wrote:
Women go to clubs and like to dance...it is a little difficult to dance to something alternating 6/8 and 7/8 . |
And I suppose no men whatsoever frequent those clubs  ... I never set foot in anything even remotely resembling to clubs, and, while I sort of like dancing, I have to like the music in order to be able to move even a few steps. And I happen to dislike most of what nowadays passes as dance music. Generalisations galore here, I'm afraid  ...
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Sinusoid
Prog Reviewer
Joined: December 07 2007
Location: South Illinois
Status: Offline
Points: 55
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 10:33 |
I'm sure there are female proggers out there, just haven't found any yet.  I might be reiterating what someone said earlier in the topic, but I think that women are naturally more emotionally inclined than men are (just an observation, not a stereotype). Prog rock usually doesn't give the world that powerful love ballad or whiny, depressing break-up song in my estimation.
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Slartibartfast
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator / In Memoriam
Joined: April 29 2006
Location: Atlantais
Status: Offline
Points: 29630
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 15:00 |
Poser wrote:
I suppose being called a chick is better than indirectly being called an Australian cattle dog. |
Hey, coming from a chick who apparently looks like Steven Wilson...
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Released date are often when it it impacted you but recorded dates are when it really happened...
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Garion81
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: May 22 2004
Location: So Cal, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 4338
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 15:43 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
MisterProg2112 wrote:
Women go to clubs and like to dance...it is a little difficult to dance to something alternating 6/8 and 7/8 . |
And I suppose no men whatsoever frequent those clubs  ... I never set foot in anything even remotely resembling to clubs, and, while I sort of like dancing, I have to like the music in order to be able to move even a few steps. And I happen to dislike most of what nowadays passes as dance music. Generalisations galore here, I'm afraid  ...
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OK Then Why do you, being a woman, think that prog does not seem to appeal to more women? I would be interested in reading your answer. 
I have a partner who I got together with 4 years ago who had never heard of prog. Yeah she heard the radio songs but not enough to go after more. I started her with the first Kansas album and she fell in love with it. From there Genesis, Yes, ELP, PFM, Focus soon followed and so on into the more modern groups as well as some Zappa. She likes it all although she doesn't care for Jon Anderson's voice. She much prefers Greg Lake to really high tenors. The thing was she was listened to the Beatles, Jazz and Soundtracks (which I now have great love of also). I think a lot of young people not just women are drawn by what media tells them to listen too. It is easier that way. Prog is hard. It is hard to find first of all and a bit getting used too listening to it. A lot of people are just lazy and are willing to follow the crowd. My two cents anyway.
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"What are you going to do when that damn thing rusts?"
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SoundsofSeasons
Prog Reviewer
Joined: March 08 2007
Location: Arizona -- USA
Status: Offline
Points: 221
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 20:33 |
Most prog rock is very emotionless, and cold music. Sorry, but it is. Women identify with emotional music. So for example they would probably like Riverside's Second Life Syndrome over Dream Theaters Scenes: From a Memory. Both are about love lost, but the first is very emotional and soft, the other is cold and mainly a reason to show off skill.
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1 Chronicles 13:7-9
Then David and all Israel played music before God with all their might, with singing, on harps, on stringed instruments, on tambourines, on cymbals, and with trumpets.
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stonebeard
Forum Senior Member
Joined: May 27 2005
Location: NE Indiana
Status: Offline
Points: 28057
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Posted: February 21 2008 at 20:43 |
^ I don't think that's accurate. Perhaps in a quantitative way, but I think that people could shoot off example after example of emotional prog music. Many women like rap and hip hop, how much emotion is in that? And a crap load of indie is hardly emotional, but jangly music to rock out and dance to. Point is, there's no ONE type of woman, but there's something cultural or maybe even biological that makes men seek out stuff like prog more than women. We do know there is pressure on women to conform to their expected "roles" in Western society, and that, predictably, does not include liking prog rock.
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Raff
Special Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: July 29 2005
Location: None
Status: Offline
Points: 24439
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:03 |
First of all, thanks to Brian and Stonie for the wisdom of their words. My personal view of people is that we are all individuals, regardless of age, gender or ethnicity, and therefore everyone of us is a different story. Of course, there are some general conclusions to be drawn from an observation of the way things go in the world - which could lead some to believe that "men like intellectual things" and "women like emotional stuff".
I can't say I really buy into all those theories about biological difference in men and women's brains, especially as I see the dangers of applying such theories to real life. However, something I strongly believe in is what both Brian and Stonie pointed out - that is, conditioning or even brainwashing by the media and society in general. Being a woman, I am all too aware of the pressure society puts on us to get us to spend our money on looking good, since we are conditioned to think that our main value is in our looks. Now, I am a reasonably vain woman, and I do like looking my best, but that doesn't mean I am willing to invest huge sums of my hard-earned cash on cosmetic surgery or other such treatments in order to look twenty years younger. Other women, unfortunately, fall for that, and start obsessing about every little thing. Nowhere do we see any attempts to persuade women to take equally good care of their brains - and that brings us back to the question of prog.
Obviously, I don't think ANY woman can be 'educated' to like prog - just as I don't think any man can. We are all different, and I am quite sure our tastes are as they are for a reason. However, I think the problem really lies with the sheep mentality far too many PEOPLE have - that is, choosing the path of least resistance. This doesn't only apply to music or the arts in general, but also to more serious things like political ideas. Learning to think with your own head is not easy, and can lead you into trouble - I know it by personal experience.
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SpaceMonkey
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 13 2007
Location: Philly Area
Status: Offline
Points: 197
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 04:25 |
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BaldJean
Prog Reviewer
Joined: May 28 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 10387
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 06:10 |
Ghost Rider wrote:
First of all, thanks to Brian and Stonie for the wisdom of their words. My personal view of people is that we are all individuals, regardless of age, gender or ethnicity, and therefore everyone of us is a different story. Of course, there are some general conclusions to be drawn from an observation of the way things go in the world - which could lead some to believe that "men like intellectual things" and "women like emotional stuff".
I can't say I really buy into all those theories about biological difference in men and women's brains, especially as I see the dangers of applying such theories to real life. However, something I strongly believe in is what both Brian and Stonie pointed out - that is, conditioning or even brainwashing by the media and society in general. Being a woman, I am all too aware of the pressure society puts on us to get us to spend our money on looking good, since we are conditioned to think that our main value is in our looks. Now, I am a reasonably vain woman, and I do like looking my best, but that doesn't mean I am willing to invest huge sums of my hard-earned cash on cosmetic surgery or other such treatments in order to look twenty years younger. Other women, unfortunately, fall for that, and start obsessing about every little thing. Nowhere do we see any attempts to persuade women to take equally good care of their brains - and that brings us back to the question of prog.
Obviously, I don't think ANY woman can be 'educated' to like prog - just as I don't think any man can. We are all different, and I am quite sure our tastes are as they are for a reason. However, I think the problem really lies with the sheep mentality far too many PEOPLE have - that is, choosing the path of least resistance. This doesn't only apply to music or the arts in general, but also to more serious things like political ideas. Learning to think with your own head is not easy, and can lead you into trouble - I know it by personal experience. |
Raffaela, you definitely have your head screwed on right.. I totally agree with you. so many people really are like sheep. I like the way Orwell portrayed the sheep in animal farm. At the beginning the pigs train them to bleat "four legs good, two legs bad" so the animals can be stirred up to revolution. In the end, when the pigs have established another tyranny, they are trained to go "four legs good, two legs better". Friede's favorite Einstein quote is "To be a perfect member of a flock of sheep one first of all has to be a sheep". Friede's brother, who is ten years older than her and me, was about 17 when punk came up. he once told me that the club of people who liked prog had never been big when he went to school, and he belonged to a circle of friends who did. but when punk came up, followed by the so-called "New Wave", most of them turned away from prog and turned to these new forms of music instead, and he became a complete outsider, at least musically. which goes to show that for some being into prog was just "trendy" and fashionable. when we have visitors we are often asked: "please don't put on any of your music! don't you have anything normal"? we are used to it meanwhile. we do have friends who are more open to musical experiences, but some only know the "tralala" music most radio stations usually play
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A shot of me as High Priestess of Gaia during our fall festival. Ceterum censeo principiis obsta
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Badabec
Forum Senior Member
Joined: November 14 2005
Location: Germany
Status: Offline
Points: 1313
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 09:31 |
I do know women who like Prog (and some of them even listen to Gentle Giant  ) and I do not know why everybody is talking about these stupid stereotypes. Maybe there are more men than women on this forum but that does not mean that there is any biological reason why women would dislike Progressive Rock. And please do not forget that not only women are expected by society to behave in a special way, the same counts for us guys. It does not matter at all if you are a boy or a girl: Prog is always kind of nerdy (though it is upcoming again  ).
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 12:23 |
ive never met a woman in real life who liked prog. i know women who like prog bands but dont know they are prog (Pink Floyd, YES, Rush) and some classic rock. and they are open to stuff if i show them anything. but no one INTO prog rock fully.
one thing i dont get though. Im going to use Frank Zappa as an example.
i have 2 live Zappa DVDs and both are from the 70's. each one pans the audience a bunch of times and i always see that at least HALF THE CROWD have female attendees. How is this so? were women really enjoying music like The Black Page or Inca Roads or even St. Alfonzos Pancake Breakfast back then, or was it just the times, and going to a Zappa concert was like going to the amusement park? i dont know, all i know is you see footage of Zappa Plays Zappa concerts and it's mostly male audiences. what happened?
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heyitsthatguy
Forum Senior Member
Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Washington Hgts
Status: Offline
Points: 10094
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 12:27 |
women have been conditioned more in the past few years to not care about any music that isn't on MTV not saying it's TRUE for all women just how they're conditioned
for guys its more acceptable to at least like something they found at Hollister or on Headbanger's Ball
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darkshade
Collaborator
Honorary Collaborator
Joined: November 19 2005
Location: New Jersey
Status: Offline
Points: 10964
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Posted: February 22 2008 at 12:58 |
heyitsthatguy wrote:
women have been conditioned more in the past few years to not care about any music that isn't on MTV
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wait, there's music on a channel called Music Television???  no way!
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