Dream Theater - the reasons

 I was just curious

"If riffs are elements, then OK - but I don't think they are. Riffs occupy too much of a piece of music to be just influence - unless you consider that Vanilla Ice was "influenced" by Queen..."

What riffs exactly? Some stuff is bound to sound alike... you can take apart any band that way. They'd have to have a pretty decent amount of originality to be copied so often. I bet your one of the many bitching about DT clones.

Read my review on Images and Words - I identify some riffs and pinpoint their location in the tracks. It's not a case of sounding alike - it's a case of directly playing the same riffs, a la Vanilla Ice. I wouldn't be surprised if there were clones - every popular band develops clones. Radiohead, for example. But most people copy the style, not exact riffs.

"It's totally possible... but I will resist temptation this once  "Good" is such a subjective word, and requires qualification."

The most succesful prog-metal band in the world must be doing SOMETHING right don't you think?

The Scissor Sisters are also very popular, and so is rap music.

I'd say if you can play well technically alone, you'd qualify as a good musician.

No - that means you're good at learning technique. There are MANY things necessary to become a good musician - music is more than technique.

If you can create catchy melodies, you're a decent musician.

If you can create catchy melodies, you're good at writing catchy melodies. "Amarillio" is a catchy melody, and so are the melodies the Spice Girls wrote.

If you can do both, you're great, and thus DT.

Completely false logic. And anyway, I don't like DT's melodies - so they're not great.

Even Yngwie Malmsteen, as much as I'm not crazy about his work, is a great musician.

No - he's a great technician. He has written no music that is particularly original, it's all based on rules and old techniques.

"Of course he knows what he's doing - he's writing columns in a magazine"

Wont dignify.

Because it was a bad argument

"The Scissor Sisters are also very popular, and so is rap music"

I knew I shouldn't have left my comment the way it was. Of course rap music is popular. But on the prog scene, which we can all agree is the best genre so far, Dream Theater is among the most popular today, so that does deserve some merit doesn't it? Being a popular band playing a style that happens to be the best???

You mean the prog metal scene. DT aren't prog in the same way that the old school bands were - let's get the distinction right. And I've already covered popular!

"Completely false logic. And anyway, I don't like DT's melodies - so they're not great."

So what's the right logic, if mine's wrong?

You said that good technique + the ability to write catchy melodies = a great musician.

Music has 5 technical elements; Melody, harmony, rhythm, form and timbre.

To be a great musician, you need expertise in all 5 of those basics, plus the je ne sais quoi - the spirit, if you must, to create great music.

A good example is Beethoven.

DT are not good examples - we could argue about good melodies, as that is subjective, but to cut a long story short, I do not find DT's to be particularly good.

Harmonically, they do very little out of the ordinary - run of the mill stuff.

Rhythmically, again, nothing outstanding - often I find the rhythms artificial and laboured.

Form - now this is where I really find their music to be weak, as it generally shows basic understanding at best. Standard song structure is more often than not abhorred by most prog rock bands.

Timbre - well, I can't stand the keyboard sounds or the vocals. But if you like it, then I guess a point is scored.

Spirit - compare DT to ELP. ELP have truckloads of spirit. So much that the music suffers in places in favour of the energy those boys put into it. I am NOT an ELP fan - but I do recognise a band's strengths. DT's lie in clarity of execution - they play precisely what they intend to play at an amazing speed.

Dream Theater's music is the most PLEASANT to my ears, and being a technical band, what does that make them? Just giving you my point of view here.

Was that a question you wanted me to answer....?

Of course music is more than technique, but technique is necessary for musical output. Don't go putting words in my mouth now.

I would never do that...

Reed Lover wrote: alan_pfeifer wrote: When did this topic turn into a name-calling contest?  I think that when a topic like this gets to a point where certain people are just bad-mouthing each other is just plain stupid.  I thought most prog fans were a little more intelligent than your average music lover, but the comments that have been said in this forum are part of the reason that I hate this forum at times.  If you can't think of a logical way to state your opinions or to back them up without resorting to petty name-calling, then you should be banned.  Period How many more times??? I badmouth a band and get slated-if I dont respond then the antipathy doesnt continue,but the buggers will do it again.I am pretty sure that Snow Dog will not dip his toes in the waters of controversy again.......si I am sparing someone else a slating. As for the being banned? Who made you the arbiter of taste?

Ok, I did come off a little preachy.  But, that doesn't excuse you from making slates against other members of the forum.  If you feel that you have to make negative comments towards a fan of a band, then you're either a little too immature for the boards, or you need to come up with better reasons than "They couldn't sell out a telephone box" as to why Dream Theater is a bad band.