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How many times do I have to see a post like the one above from FlowerKing? There will not be a night and day difference if Biden gets in. What will happen over time is with the Congress being completely ruled by the Dems, the Supreme court will be enlarged to offset the Trump appointees. This is what is important.
Nothing wrong with agreeing with what others have said. Not sure what the big deal is. Anyway, it doesn't look like that will happen if Trump gets his way and is able to get approval for this right wing supreme court justice. He probably thinks more women will approve because she's a woman but really that's just a political move. However, if Biden is elected then there is the strong possibility that there will be supreme court justices added.
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Posted: September 25 2020 at 21:09
Easy Money wrote:
Thanks to the local social media site NextDoor, I am able to discuss trump with literally thousands of trump supporters, as well probably a hundred plus people I know personally. Most trump voters are not crazy about the guy, they see his faults and ugliness. Most trump voters are like the rest of us, just voting for what they see as the lesser of two evils. They don't like Democrats, but it doesn't get much deeper than that, and if you criticize trump from a conservative viewpoint, you will get no argument.
This idea of a red state violent rebellion is a media fairy tale. If trump loses, life in the redneck suburb I live in will go on as it always does with people having jobs to get to and kids to get to school, sports to watch on TV and plenty of Bud Lite for everyone.
Well, but this is exactly the thing that I am voicing my disagreement against. If they cannot see, even NOW, that Trump is the bigger evil by far, their perspective is warped by the things they have been told are the conservative priorities. You won't have conservative, liberal nothing if you support a President who not only does not like elections but is prepared to voice this sentiment for the world to listen to. It has to be beyond the pale for a President to say he won't ensure transition of power if he loses. If you (as in these Trump supporters) don't like the Dems, just vote third party or write in somebody. But if you 'hold your nose' over this, you are in essence enabling an undemocratic president and no excuses can wipe off that stain.
People have to remember, irrespective of ideological affiliation, that democracy is what is most worth fighting for. But of course, conservatives of a certain stripe will latch on to academic distinctions to say America is not a democracy anyway.
And it's not even a one-off on the part of Trump nor is it fragmented militia.
Have a look at what Tommy Hicks Jr is saying. Co-chair of the RNC. If the Republican Party is so sick of Trump, when do they stop enabling him? And meanwhile Trump himself wants more of these so-called poll watchers everywhere.
Are FBI or CIA going to go to every polling station to stop this? I don't think so.
I notice by the way that only TYT and NowThisNews are carrying this story. You don't see it in CNN or MSNBC. OTOH if so called 'Resistance' libs gathered at polling stations to quarrel with Trump supporters, you can be sure it would make headline news. This is how the media too enables Trump while at the same time pretending to not like him at all. And why do they enable him? Because he is great for their ratings, they would be sinking under about now without a volatile President like him. In this way, everybody has their own priorities and saving democracy itself doesn't seem to be among them.
Sorry if my prognosis sounds gloomy. But the last time a democratically elected leader in our country showed such contempt for the process as Trump does, we lost democracy itself for two years and may God bless the sycophants who convinced her it was time to hold elections because she would win, for we wouldn't otherwise have ever got out of Emergency. These tactics are familiar to me and the outcomes are usually not good. If the Republican Party do not tell their President to shut up and sit down because winning their Senate and House races and appointing one more conservative judge is the priority, there won't be a Senate, a House or a SC left. They need to act now. And nothing they have done in the last four years suggests they would.
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Posted: September 25 2020 at 22:28
^ Thank you for expressing these concerns (that I agree with) much more intelligently and rationally than I would have been able to.
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 03:06
rogerthat wrote:
Easy Money wrote:
Thanks to the local social media site NextDoor, I am able to discuss trump with literally thousands of trump supporters, as well probably a hundred plus people I know personally. Most trump voters are not crazy about the guy, they see his faults and ugliness. Most trump voters are like the rest of us, just voting for what they see as the lesser of two evils. They don't like Democrats, but it doesn't get much deeper than that, and if you criticize trump from a conservative viewpoint, you will get no argument.
This idea of a red state violent rebellion is a media fairy tale. If trump loses, life in the redneck suburb I live in will go on as it always does with people having jobs to get to and kids to get to school, sports to watch on TV and plenty of Bud Lite for everyone.
Well, but this is exactly the thing that I am voicing my disagreement against. If they cannot see, even NOW, that Trump is the bigger evil by far, their perspective is warped by the things they have been told are the conservative priorities. You won't have conservative, liberal nothing if you support a President who not only does not like elections but is prepared to voice this sentiment for the world to listen to. It has to be beyond the pale for a President to say he won't ensure transition of power if he loses. If you (as in these Trump supporters) don't like the Dems, just vote third party or write in somebody. But if you 'hold your nose' over this, you are in essence enabling an undemocratic president and no excuses can wipe off that stain.
People have to remember, irrespective of ideological affiliation, that democracy is what is most worth fighting for. But of course, conservatives of a certain stripe will latch on to academic distinctions to say America is not a democracy anyway.
And it's not even a one-off on the part of Trump nor is it fragmented militia.
Have a look at what Tommy Hicks Jr is saying. Co-chair of the RNC. If the Republican Party is so sick of Trump, when do they stop enabling him? And meanwhile Trump himself wants more of these so-called poll watchers everywhere.
Are FBI or CIA going to go to every polling station to stop this? I don't think so.
I notice by the way that only TYT and NowThisNews are carrying this story. You don't see it in CNN or MSNBC. OTOH if so called 'Resistance' libs gathered at polling stations to quarrel with Trump supporters, you can be sure it would make headline news. This is how the media too enables Trump while at the same time pretending to not like him at all. And why do they enable him? Because he is great for their ratings, they would be sinking under about now without a volatile President like him. In this way, everybody has their own priorities and saving democracy itself doesn't seem to be among them.
Sorry if my prognosis sounds gloomy. But the last time a democratically elected leader in our country showed such contempt for the process as Trump does, we lost democracy itself for two years and may God bless the sycophants who convinced her it was time to hold elections because she would win, for we wouldn't otherwise have ever got out of Emergency. These tactics are familiar to me and the outcomes are usually not good. If the Republican Party do not tell their President to shut up and sit down because winning their Senate and House races and appointing one more conservative judge is the priority, there won't be a Senate, a House or a SC left. They need to act now. And nothing they have done in the last four years suggests they would.
the Pakman show on youtube (which I highly recommend) reports it too
as to these "academic distinctions": the concepts of "republic" and "democracy" are not mutually exclusive
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 04:01
The Dark Elf wrote:
SteveG wrote:
How many times do I have to see a post like the one above from FlowerKing? There will not be a night and day difference if Biden gets in. What will happen over time is with the Congress being completely ruled by the Dems, the Supreme court will be enlarged to offset the Trump appointees. This is what is important.
Actually, it's a bit more than that, Steve. Trump is a flat-earth, anti-science, anti-intellectual charlatan. Trump has for all intents and purposes destroyed the EPA and eliminated countless important pollution controls (so many that energy companies and the auto industry have told him to stop it). He has gutted Intelligence, the State Department and HUD. He has hired complete idiots, and worse, idiot patrons to run Education and the US Post Office. The Justice Department and the FBI has had a series of competent and patriotic leaders give up and leave in disgust. Another four years of the Mango Mussolini and you'll have nothing left but banal Trump apparatchiks playing to the whims of a narcissistic sociopath. Democracy and the Constitution will be a memory.
Actually Greg, there needs to be more to it than just stating Trump's ills. Aside from Biden dismissing all of Trump's sycophant's like Barr, Perry, etc., he has no comprehensive plan to reverse the damage done to agencies like the EPA, HUD, Departments of Energy, and Education, etc. That's why I say that there will not a big difference made as soon as Biden gets in. But at least there's hope for the future.
Edited by SteveG - September 26 2020 at 04:45
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:20
SteveG wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
SteveG wrote:
How many times do I have to see a post like the one above from FlowerKing? There will not be a night and day difference if Biden gets in. What will happen over time is with the Congress being completely ruled by the Dems, the Supreme court will be enlarged to offset the Trump appointees. This is what is important.
Actually, it's a bit more than that, Steve. Trump is a flat-earth, anti-science, anti-intellectual charlatan. Trump has for all intents and purposes destroyed the EPA and eliminated countless important pollution controls (so many that energy companies and the auto industry have told him to stop it). He has gutted Intelligence, the State Department and HUD. He has hired complete idiots, and worse, idiot patrons to run Education and the US Post Office. The Justice Department and the FBI has had a series of competent and patriotic leaders give up and leave in disgust. Another four years of the Mango Mussolini and you'll have nothing left but banal Trump apparatchiks playing to the whims of a narcissistic sociopath. Democracy and the Constitution will be a memory.
Actually Greg, there needs to be more to it than just stating Trump's ills. Aside from Biden dismissing all of Trump's sycophant's like Barr, Perry, etc., he has no comprehensive plan to reverse the damage done to agencies like the EPA, HUD, Departments of Energy, and Education, etc. That's why I say that there will not a big difference made as soon as Biden gets in. But at least there's hope for the future.
You've got to disinfect the gaping wound before stitching it back up. But actually, Biden has already committed to new, green energy technology, and a return of all the environmental policies rolled back by Trump in his reckless time trip back to Dickensian London to put coal back in every household and whale-oil lamps on every table. Strengthening the State Department and renewing all our alliances will also help U.S. interests worldwide, and eliminating Trump's personal attorney from Justice will fortify both the AG office and the FBI. Also, don't discount Biden's ability to bring back credibility to the Intelligence community, which has been ignored by Trump in his felatio-driven love affair with Putin.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 08:31
The Dark Elf wrote:
SteveG wrote:
The Dark Elf wrote:
SteveG wrote:
How many times do I have to see a post like the one above from FlowerKing? There will not be a night and day difference if Biden gets in. What will happen over time is with the Congress being completely ruled by the Dems, the Supreme court will be enlarged to offset the Trump appointees. This is what is important.
Actually, it's a bit more than that, Steve. Trump is a flat-earth, anti-science, anti-intellectual charlatan. Trump has for all intents and purposes destroyed the EPA and eliminated countless important pollution controls (so many that energy companies and the auto industry have told him to stop it). He has gutted Intelligence, the State Department and HUD. He has hired complete idiots, and worse, idiot patrons to run Education and the US Post Office. The Justice Department and the FBI has had a series of competent and patriotic leaders give up and leave in disgust. Another four years of the Mango Mussolini and you'll have nothing left but banal Trump apparatchiks playing to the whims of a narcissistic sociopath. Democracy and the Constitution will be a memory.
Actually Greg, there needs to be more to it than just stating Trump's ills. Aside from Biden dismissing all of Trump's sycophant's like Barr, Perry, etc., he has no comprehensive plan to reverse the damage done to agencies like the EPA, HUD, Departments of Energy, and Education, etc. That's why I say that there will not a big difference made as soon as Biden gets in. But at least there's hope for the future.
You've got to disinfect the gaping wound before stitching it back up. But actually, Biden has already committed to new, green energy technology, and a return of all the environmental policies rolled back by Trump in his reckless time trip back to Dickensian London to put coal back in every household and whale-oil lamps on every table. Strengthening the State Department and renewing all our alliances will also help U.S. interests worldwide, and eliminating Trump's personal attorney from Justice will fortify both the AG office and the FBI. Also, don't discount Biden's ability to bring back credibility to the Intelligence community, which has been ignored by Trump in his felatio-driven love affair with Putin.
Aside from his Green Energy tech talk, I haven't seen or heard anything from Biden on correcting the agencies downgraded by Trump, but I take your good word that Biden has plans to fix them.
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 12:41
As most politicians' motivation is power, I doubt that Biden would want to reverse many of those particular changes made under Trump. Probably a few unimportant token ones, but I've yet to see a modern politician who would to relinquish his influence over what has practically fallen into his lap.
That doesn't change that Biden would be the better choice, as he probably wouldn't continue to stretch out. But I find it extremely worrying that he hasn't said a word about taking action in this regard.
He would inherit a presidency that is now overstuffed with power. Does anyone seriously expect any president to give that up?
Think of all the precedents now set by Trump. All that would now become Biden's and stay like that without legislature. I see veto powers coming.
I think it likely that he could sit on a number of these issues until just before the next election in four years.
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Posted: September 26 2020 at 13:44
It is like the leadup to a heavyweight title bout.
Biden then gave a preview of what he expects from Trump in the debate while taking a swipe at the president's intellect.
"My guess is, it's going to be just straight attack. They're going to be mostly personal. That's the only thing he knows how to do. He doesn't know how to debate the facts because he's not that smart. He doesn't know that many facts," Biden said. "He doesn't know much about foreign policy or domestic policy. He doesn't know much about the detail."
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 14:28
The way American politics is going, this should be moved to the Just for Fun section. And the way this thread is going, as I believe I have said on another thread, it should be renamed to the "I hate Donald Trump thread".
"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp "I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 15:16
FatherChristmas wrote:
The way American politics is going, this should be moved to the Just for Fun section. And the way this thread is going, as I believe I have said on another thread, it should be renamed to the "I hate Donald Trump thread".
Yes, I noticed you made the same comment on another thread and I chose not to continue a political discussion there. But since you were foolish enough to continue on this thread, I feel no such compunction.
Tell me, are you from the United States? If not, I would suggest that the people who comment here are far more politically connected to what is happening here than wherever it is you reside. It's not simply some irrational hatred of a politician. It isn't even just because Trump has been a notable douchebag/rapist/tax cheat all his life.
It is because of the unconstitutional nature of nearly everything Trump does. It is because of the ongoing corruption that is clearly evident in his administration. It is the continued influence from Russia that Trump denies but does nothing to stop, even when every Intelligence agency, the Mueller Report and the Republican-run Senate Intelligence Committee all say it has occurred and is happening still. It is his support of reactionary right-wing white nationalists, Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazis. It his vocal incitements to violence. It his trying to invalidate the election claiming voter fraud that does not exist, and refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if and when he is voted out.
So, no one here considers what is happening to our country "Just For Fun"; therefore, I suggest you take your asinine smiley emoji and shove it up whatever aperture you currently use to speak with.
...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 15:37
The Dark Elf wrote:
FatherChristmas wrote:
The way American politics is going, this should be moved to the Just for Fun section. And the way this thread is going, as I believe I have said on another thread, it should be renamed to the "I hate Donald Trump thread".
Yes, I noticed you made the same comment on another thread and I chose not to continue a political discussion there. But since you were foolish enough to continue on this thread, I feel no such compunction.
Tell me, are you from the United States? If not, I would suggest that the people who comment here are far more politically connected to what is happening here than wherever it is you reside. It's not simply some irrational hatred of a politician. It isn't even just because Trump has been a notable douchebag/rapist/tax cheat all his life.
It is because of the unconstitutional nature of nearly everything Trump does. It is because of the ongoing corruption that is clearly evident in his administration. It is the continued influence from Russia that Trump denies but does nothing to stop, even when every Intelligence agency, the Mueller Report and the Republican-run Senate Intelligence Committee all say it has occurred and is happening still. It is his support of reactionary right-wing white nationalists, Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazis. It his vocal incitements to violence. It his trying to invalidate the election claiming voter fraud that does not exist, and refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if and when he is voted out.
So, no one here considers what is happening to our country "Just For Fun"; therefore, I suggest you take your asinine smiley emoji and shove it up whatever aperture you currently use to speak with.
^Very amusing. I'm English, by the way. I understand Trump is a thouroughly nasty, corrupt person and not someone that should be president of a powerful nation like the US. I was making a joke, and if that offended you, I seriously am sorry. But you're right, I won't be foolish enough to post here again, not when confronted with the same group of people talking about the the same thing day after day.
"Music is the wine that fills the cup of silence" - Robert Fripp "I am an anti-Christ" - Johnny Rotten
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 15:40
The Dark Elf wrote:
FatherChristmas wrote:
The way American politics is going, this should be moved to the Just for Fun section. And the way this thread is going, as I believe I have said on another thread, it should be renamed to the "I hate Donald Trump thread".
Yes, I noticed you made the same comment on another thread and I chose not to continue a political discussion there. But since you were foolish enough to continue on this thread, I feel no such compunction.
Tell me, are you from the United States? If not, I would suggest that the people who comment here are far more politically connected to what is happening here than wherever it is you reside. It's not simply some irrational hatred of a politician. It isn't even just because Trump has been a notable douchebag/rapist/tax cheat all his life.
It is because of the unconstitutional nature of nearly everything Trump does. It is because of the ongoing corruption that is clearly evident in his administration. It is the continued influence from Russia that Trump denies but does nothing to stop, even when every Intelligence agency, the Mueller Report and the Republican-run Senate Intelligence Committee all say it has occurred and is happening still. It is his support of reactionary right-wing white nationalists, Ku Klux Klan and neo-Nazis. It his vocal incitements to violence. It his trying to invalidate the election claiming voter fraud that does not exist, and refusing to commit to a peaceful transfer of power if and when he is voted out.
So, no one here considers what is happening to our country "Just For Fun"; therefore, I suggest you take your asinine smiley emoji and shove it up whatever aperture you currently use to speak with.
Well said......
One does nothing yet nothing is left undone. Haquin
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 16:15
Here's a new topic for Father Christmas. The NYT has reported that Trump payed no income tax in 10 of the last 15 years and only paid $750 in 2016. What a crook
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 16:27
SteveG wrote:
Here's a new topic for Father Christmas. The NYT has reported that Trump payed no income tax in 10 of the last 15 years and only paid $750 in 2016. What a crook
I'll go back on what I said about not being foolish enough to post here again just to clarify I am certainly not a Trump supporter, and I agree with you, what a crook.
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 17:34
I'm not American born, have never gotten my citizenship even though I have been here 25 years. It seems to me that the problem that gave rise to and was given a voice by Trump is that for some time now the left and right have been living in alternate realities. There is no such thing as commonly accepted truth now. I don't know how that situation can be resolved. If Biden wins and Trump somehow concedes, the country will again be living in a truth that is closer to reality than it is now, but all the problems that caused him to rise will still be there. And the way senators and the electoral college (and even the house apparently) are apportioned continues to favor the Republicans so I can't see a scenario where the Dems have enough power to undo all the damage that has been done.
Easymoney, I'm somewhat encouraged by your comments regarding Trump supporters you have engaged, though in some ways more appalled that they would consider him the lesser evil compared to almost anyone. But when I want to see what the alt reality people are thinking I go to this website
It's grim. Their narrative is always the same. democrats are nasty, Godless hypocrites who exploit people of colour and immigrants and thumb their nose at the constitution. They control the centers of power in the country - the media, universities, science, big cities. of course, they have almost no power anymore and are losing the little they have, but that narrative doesn't fit what American Thinker is about. And of course they have a lot of readers who believe everything they write
Edited by kenethlevine - September 27 2020 at 17:36
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Posted: September 27 2020 at 22:42
kenethlevine wrote:
I'm not American born, have never gotten my citizenship even though I have been here 25 years. It seems to me that the problem that gave rise to and was given a voice by Trump is that for some time now the left and right have been living in alternate realities. There is no such thing as commonly accepted truth now. I don't know how that situation can be resolved. If Biden wins and Trump somehow concedes, the country will again be living in a truth that is closer to reality than it is now, but all the problems that caused him to rise will still be there. And the way senators and the electoral college (and even the house apparently) are apportioned continues to favor the Republicans so I can't see a scenario where the Dems have enough power to undo all the damage that has been done.
Easymoney, I'm somewhat encouraged by your comments regarding Trump supporters you have engaged, though in some ways more appalled that they would consider him the lesser evil compared to almost anyone. But when I want to see what the alt reality people are thinking I go to this website
It's grim. Their narrative is always the same. democrats are nasty, Godless hypocrites who exploit people of colour and immigrants and thumb their nose at the constitution. They control the centers of power in the country - the media, universities, science, big cities. of course, they have almost no power anymore and are losing the little they have, but that narrative doesn't fit what American Thinker is about. And of course they have a lot of readers who believe everything they write
The right wing echo chamber has been many years in the making. Started with their refusal to cooperate with Bill Clinton, the most center-right Dem President since the party had started going liberal with the New Deal platform. In 2000, a strict party-line vote (barring Souter who sided with Ginsburg, Stevens and Breyer in dissent) by the SCOTUS decided the fate of the Florida election and in turn the question of who would be President. In 2008, you could see that hardcore Republican supporters were disappointed that John McCain wouldn't embrace their outright racist rhetoric against Obama (whom they called an Arab terrorist or tantamount to that). Once the Tea Party took shape, these far right forces could no longer be shut out of the party and Trump winning was but the culmination of their transformation. It's difficult to envisage somebody like Cruz being much different and he was the one who would have likely prevailed had Trump lost the Primary. The difference, if anything, is that like Bush he wouldn't be saying the quiet part loud and they would just try to rig close races all the same. So Trump letting it all out in the open actually helps unmask the true face of the Right, shrouded until now by all the talk of fiscal conservatism.
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Posted: September 28 2020 at 06:03
My personal take of Republican Trump supporters is more of a softening of views because of Trump's mismanagement of the covid crisis and the fluctuating stock market and downturn in the economy. Prior to this, Trump supporters always gave a smug reply that they didn't give a rats ass about Trump's unsavory side along as the economy was booming. But that softening could revert back to a hard pro Trump line again at anytime. There is no moral standard to which they hold Trump and the Republican party. And that's the truth of all Trump supporters.
If there was a moral standard, then they simply would not support him.
Edited by SteveG - September 28 2020 at 06:07
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SteveG wrote:
