PA's Top Albums from the 60s & 70s |
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M27Barney
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Posted: June 03 2020 at 09:27 |
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^ Wright did some nice VCS3 work on SOYCD...but I reckon king of the laid back style was Badens...and he also had the chops with his synth and organ solos...and Greenslade and Lawson were both superior keys men...DG is always overlooked despite the brilliant hammond solo in drum folk. Which is best ever in terms of feel..IMHO
Edited by M27Barney - June 03 2020 at 09:29 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26171 |
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This is interesting I do think that Keith was more constrained by the demands of ELP and especially the sizeable ego of Greg Lake! Rick W did fly a bit more because he was able to do what he wanted on his solo albums which probably sold as much as ELP at the time. That said Judas Iscariot is an absolutely stunning piece from a compositional point of view that Wakeman should be very proud of (Criminal Record only spoilt by the dreaded 'fun track' The Breathalyser) . Both Emerson and Wakeman were very capable composers but the rock star antics and every increasing keyboard stacks were something of a distraction I suspect in terms of how they were viewed (and still are). Rick Wright on the other hand is a completely different animal and was content to add atmosphere and blend the keyboards a bit more into the music. He was a very quiet man and like Jon Lord decided that the 'rock star' thing was not for him. I believe with keyboards , you have to consider the personality of the guy and not just technical skill. Who wants to blend into the background and who wants to be at the front of the stage.
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Hi, I don't like to say bad things about keyboard players ... to me, is the keyboard integrated into the completeness of the music, or is it flying on its own ... and it gets really easy to see which ones are just solo'ing and which ones are playing with the group. I don't think, for example, that many of us would say that Rich Wright did a bunch of solos, since so much of it is an important part of the song/piece itself, and that is what I mean ... the same for the AD2 keyboard player in the early days ... you never heard anything that sounded like a solo ... and that means it was all about the completeness of the music ... and to me, just like classical music, we don't sit here (or anywhere else) and say that the violin was not needed, and those strings were a waste and whatever other silly comment. RW is a very good "technician", and he knows his keyboards really well ... no doubt there. But to my ears he is playing the same bits and pieces on a different machine with a different sound ... just a couple of note changes and this little solo over there, then we move over here kind of thing, and for this reason, I never really found RW's solo albums that great ... I would like to see less "solo" bits and pieces and more music and specially a cohesiveness of sound with each bit and piece fitting the total music, not standing out as just a solo! It's a personal taste I guess, but when you compare KE, in their early days, I never felt that TARKUS or THE ENDLESS ENIGMA ... were all solo ... it was beautifully designed into the completeness of the piece of music, and then when you hear Rachel Flower do this on piano, you know right away, how great the composition itself was ... a shame that academia can not appreciate that greatness!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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M27Barney
Forum Senior Member Joined: November 09 2006 Location: Swinton M27 Status: Offline Points: 3136 |
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^ Wakeman has produced some complete sh*te...especially his god bothering stuff..ELP produced a lot of godawful stuff after works vol 1...I do know that you place a lot of vañue on the perceived flow of an album....but I still don't see any value in Genesis after 1977 when Hackett left..nor Rush after MP...Do you prefer these to say Flowerpower or Stardust we are by the Flower kings? I think that may be where our musical tastes diverge....
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26171 |
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Going back to the Italian Prog thing , I am pretty ignorant about these bands although I enjoy the more popular ones PFM , Le Orme and Banco of course. In general I will always tend to gravitate towards symphonic keyboard based prog . If I only one piece of music from prog as a genre that I was allowed to listen to then it would be ELP- Tarkus. Music needs to be inspired for me and it can be pretentious and bombastic. This is the real nub of why so many don't like ELP imo but that is fine. Rick Wakeman was also (like Emerson) too much of a character to just dryly compose 'nice' music. Was there ever a more 'classically trained' keyboard player than him yet he also had a personality and that is important to me at least as it comes across in the music. Personality is something that is too often sorely missing. The pioneers did it. Those that came later copied to some extent but made nice listenable records. However to my ears, PFM early albums summed up everything beautifully and ELP noticed! |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Hi, Tap .... and PA could use its many admins and honored folks to help that ... but when many of these folks spend their time posting in fanboy threads, and then not respecting folks that think differently ... it makes it impossible to be fair about all the music out there! The criticism about the "differences" ... is really harsh ... and gets worse when the attitude starts justifying a popcorn and candy poll ... with duplicates. Please, all I ask is ... where do you stand in terms of "progressive music"? ... with all of it, or just the favorite top of the morning yawn?
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
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moshkito
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Hi, Thank you. I know for sure I was not the only one to say it! And that it does not belong with "progressive music" or "prog"! BTW, excellent list and probably closer to mine if I were to make one ...
And worse ... many of these folks will make harsh comments and will never bother to listen to it ... same thing for the Robot Woman album ... because it hits them where it hurts?
Edited by moshkito - June 01 2020 at 07:22 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14110 |
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I'm not criticising your list, but sl*g.ing off everyone who does it differently in a side remark wasn't exactly necessary.
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10261 |
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Yes, but he explicitly asked for personal rankings in the original post. Exposure definitely has to do with it. Everyone knows "Close to the Edge" by Yes. Hardly anyone knows "Fairy Tales" by Mother Gong.
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Tapfret
Special Collaborator Honorary Collaborator / Retired Admin Joined: August 12 2007 Location: Bryant, Wa Status: Offline Points: 8576 |
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Drew's list is strictly the PA weighted rankings for the decades in question, not his or anyone else's personal rankings. And like I said, so much of how these rankings fall into place has to do with exposure. Magic Power Mako's Magical Power or Images' self-titled release, or even the next teir up, Pulsar's Halloween are never going to make the list over the 3rd or 4th ranked album from the big 5 because they just don't have the exposure, no matter how good they are. |
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BaldFriede
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Since there are in my opinion so many albums that I consider to be on par and as good as they come (I could pick about 200 that I would consider to be worthy of the top spot) I see absolutely no reason to list an artist twice.
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Lewian
Prog Reviewer Joined: August 09 2015 Location: Italy Status: Offline Points: 14110 |
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This kind of remark pops up about lists again and again. If you want to make a list that has every artist just once you are free to do that, and I see why one wants to do that. But if I just want to list the best albums without any side conditions or any eye on recommending more artists to anyone or whatever consideration that is different from "what are the best albums"... there is no reason not to have two by the same artist, if you just think they're that good. I won't have anyone make me feel bad about doing such a thing on a best albums list. (And yes, I do think Art Zoyd have three in the best 30 of the 2000s!)
Edited by Lewian - May 31 2020 at 15:06 |
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BaldFriede
Prog Reviewer Joined: June 02 2005 Location: Germany Status: Offline Points: 10261 |
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First of all: There have been so many great albums over the years that having more than one from a certain artist can be called nothing but fan-boyism/girlism In no specific order, and I will include the Big Six though they are by no means my Big Six: Can - Tago Mago Tangerine Dream - Rubycon Van der Graaf Generator - Pawn Hearts Mother Gong - Fairy Tales Gong - You Hawkwind - Warrior on the Edge of Time Amon Düül II - Tanz der Lemminge Embryo - Rocksession Nektar - Recycled King Crimson - Lizard Magma - Mëkanïk Dëstruktïẁ Kömmandöh Emerson, Lake & Palmer - Trilogy Genesis - The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway * Yes - Relayer Jethro Tull - Thick as a Bridge Gentle Giant - Octopus Pink Floyd - Meddle Peter Hammill - The Fall of the House of Usher (1999 version) Henry Cow - Western Culture Gryphon - Red Queen to Gryphon Three * If the private version of Jean and me of Nursery Cryme including the tracks "Happy the Man" and Twilight Alehouse" as track 8 and 9 would count this would replace "The Lamb Lies Down on Broadway". This list could change at any time, but some albums would always stay on it. And most of the so-called Big Six would usually not appear on my list at all.
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The Anders
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 02 2019 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 3529 |
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But there are not nearly as many Italian prog albums as there are British albums. I counted: 21 British albums (out of which 15 make the entire top 15) 4 Italian albums 3 Canadian albums 2 US albums
Edited by The Anders - May 31 2020 at 08:03 |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Hi, It is a nice list, but I think part of the problem with it is exactly what you mention ... "not as good as..." which tends to suggest that no one can create music like those folks did ... of course not ... but the instruments are pretty much the same the world over, so some sounds will also appear elsewhere! This is the main reason why I do not compare anyone to RW of KE, or any other keyboard player out there ... it doesn't say anything about the creativity that some of these other folks put together! AC ... my sisters had been in Europe in 1968 and such, and they brought home the two AC albums, and I had already heard and knew well (even before the 666 album ... which sent me after all the Irene Pappas films I could find!!!) way before I got into the music that became known as "progressive" ... around 1972 and a half or so ... when in one day, I ended up hearing over 10 bands (mostly on the Harvest label, btw) and a year later the same label had stuff out from Europe just as good and great! So for me, I had already seen the Beatles and Rolling Stones fame thing, and I didn't like it ... it was like they could do anything they wanted and everyone would think it was great ... and some of it wasn't, specially the RS. And when a couple of band hit it big in America ... gads ... I already had YES's first 2 albums, I already had The Nice's albums ... and the new things ... were just that ... the new things! To me, it was a natural progression for those artists ... not some sort of seminal artistic this and that ... because I could not compare a lot of this music to 40K books and history of Portuguese, Brazilian and Spanish Literature ... and its' like saying that only Don Quixote is worth it, and the rest is just merde ... and it is not true at all, and all one is saying is ... they don't know anything about the rest! And I, don't like to use that parallel with folks here, because they have a lot of knowledge in a lot of music, that even you and I don't. But the cookie cutter thing, really hurts what "progressive music" is meant to be, specially for us elders ... we should not be saying ... sounds like ...
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Hi, To my ears, a lot of "Italian" prog has its roots in classical music, if we are to look at some of the compositions as a composition, and not a rock song in three or four parts only. And a lot of these bands did bits and pieces of classical music here and there, to show for it, and I think this was a big finger in the sky to the elder statesmen that would not hire these kids to an orchestra or did anything more original than another revival of a Verdi or Puccini opera ... sort of like NY redoing yet another revival of the poopiest musical you can think of -- and then even try to insult your intelligence by inserting a famous pop star to get more tickets sold ... and of course, it crashed ... fast! BANCO, for example, without mentioning the words, in composition style is extremely classical, and NOT given to just doing a rock song for the radio ... this was about what they saw, not anything else, and even though many of us loved Giacomo and his wonderful operatic voice, guess what ... it was not only Giacomo ... Vittorio's version of the band in their last album is magnificent ... but won't get any kind of an ear here, because people have to have the RW keyboards, the KE pyrotechnics, the CS bass, and the poorest drumming this side of BB. The things from Italy that try to copy the "standard" modes of music, usually do not go very far, which tells you that there is a solid appreciation for original music over there ... not a copy of the original hits with the same keyboards and bass ... reminds me of the opening to "The World Became The World" album ... when they ripped it to the max ... that would have been their sort of tip of the hat to the big 5, and then over and out ... their music and first albums were magnificent and deserved the accolades it got ... however just calling it "progressive" this and that ... takes away the most important factor of enjoying music, specially in this case ... it is totally outstanding material and beautifully written and the proof is that 45 years later we are still playing it!
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Hi, As do I, however, if you go back to the start of the thread I was the one that asked for 30 bands, not albums. AND THANK YOU TAP ... I'm not one for these kinds of lists as there are too many things I love dearly that won't make it to the list ... and I find it best to respect the music, by not suggesting that one thing is better than another! They are all great ... and I like the idea of giving other artists a lot more respect that they deserve and are not getting in a kid's like poll!
Edited by moshkito - May 31 2020 at 06:32 |
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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moshkito
Forum Senior Member Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 16165 |
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Hi, It has nothing to do with the website, unless you feel that it is the site's fault that you and I are here, which it isn't! The only concern, and it just shows where you stand, is that your definition of "prog" and "progressive" is more about your favorites than it is about a reality in the music ... so go ahead and call yourself "progressive" ... I have 47 years of pushing this music with me, and you can't say anything about my trip ... except that you don't believe it because it is not showing the RW keyboards, the CS bass, or the bullmerde drums on it, simply because it is in the "definition" that those must be there. For your information music has been in a "progressive" mode for at least 500 years ... but your knowledge is limited to a couple of days in that equation.
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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
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Mortte
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I think there is just so much overlooking of the sixties-seventies great music these days, people just like to listen their few Zeppelin albums over & over again. Edited by Mortte - May 31 2020 at 06:23 |
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richardh
Prog Reviewer Joined: February 18 2004 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 26171 |
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^ PFM really , and then its the first 3 or 4 albums only after that it's a lot of keyboard/symphonic prog really that is good but not as good as ELP , Rick Wakeman, Trace and a good few others in my opinion although a lot of it is decent neverthless. If you want ELP without the bombast then there is a lot of good stuff. Bold list although Pawn Hearts is probably the only one that would make my list whether sticking to one album per artist rule or not. Btw have you heard the Aphrodite's Child album 666? I do feel that album is too often overlooked and for the life of my I'll never understand why. |
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