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Proto-Prog, Prog Related or Prog Pop which is it?
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Frenetic Zetetic View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 05 2020 at 03:24
Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Proto-prog always confused me TBH; where is the line between proto and regular prog?
I didn't know there was such a genre as Proto-Prog until I arrived here. Smile

This was a big debate on PA, coz there existed two meanings of proto-prog, one of which I'm kind of surprised you've never heard of.

UK Bands like Cressida, Raw Material, Indian Summer, Still Life, Room, Czar, Greatest Show On Earth, Tonton Macoute and a bunch more (usually or often released on the Dawn or Neon labels) were called Proto-prog, because of their rawer sound and less-refined compositions  compared to the classic prog bands. Needless to d-say that the "proto-prog" genre was a pure journalistic invention that was born two decades later (in the 90's), when the German label Repertoire unearthed them and made those album available on CD for the first time.

Our version (ProgArchives) of proto-prog refers more to a timeline, and everything that predates the release of King Crimson's debut album. This was originally to include bands like The Nice, Vanilla Fudge,  Procol Harum and the first three albums od Deep Purple, which were Psychedelic prog (or prototype of prog), but internal rivalries and lobbying made that The Nice and Prol were yanked away almost right from the start. Not that our version of Proto-Prog is any more legit than the other.

But journalist speak of proto-punk (which never existed then, but is widely accepted nowadays) for the Detroit late-60's se-cene (Stooges, MC5, Amboy Duke) and New York (Velvet Underground), and journalists also invented the jazz genre "post-bop", to describe 60's, 70's and modern "bop" music that wasn't released in nthe 50's and 40's , be they Bebop or Hard Bop.



The PA version seems to make the most sense to me TBH, but I'm certain if I were an avid listener of proto, I'd know the actual big picture much better.

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Proto-prog always confused me TBH; where is the line between proto and regular prog?
I didn't know there was such a genre as Proto-Prog until I arrived here. Smile

This was a big debate on PA, coz there existed two meanings of proto-prog, one of which I'm kind of surprised you've never heard of.

UK Bands like Cressida, Raw Material, Indian Summer, Still Life, Room, Czar, Greatest Show On Earth, Tonton Macoute and a bunch more (usually or often released on the Dawn or Neon labels) were called Proto-prog, because of their rawer sound and less-refined compositions  compared to the classic prog bands. Needless to d-say that the "proto-prog" genre was a pure journalistic invention that was born two decades later (in the 90's), when the German label Repertoire unearthed them and made those album available on CD for the first time.

Our version (ProgArchives) of proto-prog refers more to a timeline, and everything that predates the release of King Crimson's debut album. This was originally to include bands like The Nice, Vanilla Fudge,  Procol Harum and the first three albums od Deep Purple, which were Psychedelic prog (or prototype of prog), but internal rivalries and lobbying made that The Nice and Prol were yanked away almost right from the start. Not that our version of Proto-Prog is any more legit than the other.

But journalist speak of proto-punk (which never existed then, but is widely accepted nowadays) for the Detroit late-60's se-cene (Stooges, MC5, Amboy Duke) and New York (Velvet Underground), and journalists also invented the jazz genre "post-bop", to describe 60's, 70's and modern "bop" music that wasn't released in nthe 50's and 40's , be they Bebop or Hard Bop.


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Psychedelic Paul View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Proto-prog always confused me TBH; where is the line between proto and regular prog?
I didn't know there was such a genre as Proto-Prog until I arrived here. Smile
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Cristi View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Frenetic Zetetic Frenetic Zetetic wrote:

Proto-prog always confused me TBH; where is the line between proto and regular prog?

there  is not line, proto-prog is not a music genre but still progressive rock, I don't know how to put it into words. Just listen to something like Procol Harum's epic from Shine on Brightly, or Deep Purple's Anthem. Both songs from 1968. 
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Proto-prog always confused me TBH; where is the line between proto and regular prog?

"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

... being able to sort by genre or even better by mood does become something you want, otherwise you end up either taking the headphones off because of distracting noise you don't have time for at that moment in time. 


Then why not just create playlists of music that has similar "mood" that suits your purpose. I have several "work time" playlists, a "sleepy time" playlist, a "good grooves" playlist, a "classic prog" playlist, etc. Populate each playlist with songs or entire albums to suit your mood or activity. Any one song (or album) can be part of several playlists -- thus avoiding the anxiety of assignment to a single genre.
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Originally posted by chopper chopper wrote:

Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

So being able to sort by genre or even better by mood does become something you want, otherwise you end up either taking the headphones off because of distracting noise you don't have time for at that moment in time.  Even with Genre assuming you set it up with the Prog Archives categories you still have a huge difference of Bands and Sounds that are not always compatible to your listening mood.
 
So what you really want to do is group them by mood? My Sony Walkman MP3 player does that by analysing the tracks- it will classify music by quiet, relaxing, loud, dance etc etc and it works reasonably well. Maybe there's some other software that will do that?

The software won't do it automatically.  But, that is what I will most probably do once I am finished with converting the rest of my cd's.

It has two extra pop-down categories:  Moods and Occasion with pop down choices.  Looking at them "Occasion" might be the easiest way to go as a couple of the pop down choices do show "Work" and "Christmas"  which is useful so I can separate a band's seasonal album out of my daily listening but auto find them at Christmas.  As in for example Moody Blues "December" or JT's and Ian Andersons seasonal Christmas stuff.  I don't need them popping up in a playlist during the year!  "Live" and "Compilation" are probably two more tags that I will create so that with a click I can use or have removed in play lists.

All this sounds trivial but it really is a big deal if you have a big collection and you are putting them into a player and not wanting to spend half your time scrolling and picking what to play.

But there are benefits once sorted.  A couple of custom USB sticks for the road for me and a custom one for my life partner.  Unfortunately she cringes when she hears a lot of the prog, but fill a stick with Rammstein, AC/DC, Journey, Aerosmith, Album Rock, T'Rex, Bowie, The Sweet, etc and she is happy and no more nagging in the car lol.  She is all over anything that sounds like Till and I introduced her to T'Rex the same. She can't get enough of Marc Bolan. 

Just to put into perspective the work of converting, I finished Jethro and Ian Andersen last week and was shocked when I realized I had converted 51.
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Originally posted by Spaciousmind Spaciousmind wrote:

So being able to sort by genre or even better by mood does become something you want, otherwise you end up either taking the headphones off because of distracting noise you don't have time for at that moment in time.  Even with Genre assuming you set it up with the Prog Archives categories you still have a huge difference of Bands and Sounds that are not always compatible to your listening mood.
 
So what you really want to do is group them by mood? My Sony Walkman MP3 player does that by analysing the tracks- it will classify music by quiet, relaxing, loud, dance etc etc and it works reasonably well. Maybe there's some other software that will do that?
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I don't bother categorizing my songs.

I just throw them all together into a musical gumbo.
Levitating downwards,
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Originally posted by Hercules Hercules wrote:

Put them in alphabetical order by band, like I do with my vinyl and forget about genres.
It's either prog or it isn't and, to some extent, that's your personal opinion anyway (which is why my Toto albums sit defiantly in my prog collection and stuff anyone who doesn't agree.).

You mentioning Toto reminds me of a short 2/3 year period we had where Ringo Starr and his All Starr Band, Robert Plant and the Sensational Space Shifters, Yes and Santana all came to Birmingham, Alabama.  That was a rare treat as no one ever comes to Alabama other than the usual Southern Rock Bands and the almost annual staples Kansas, Styx, Journey, Kiss, Motley Crue who come and play at the outdoor Amphitheater about 2 miles from where I live.

Anyway, Ringo Starr All Star Band lineup had Steve Luthaker, Gregg Rolie (Santana), Todd Rundgen, Gregg Bissonnette and Richard Page (Mr. Mister). In the set list they played Africa, Rosanna and Hold the Line.  Also fun was listening to their All Starr sound of Black Magic Woman/Gypsy Queen, Oye Como Va and Evil Ways.  About 3 weeks later Santana played so it was cool to compare the two sounds. 

Regarding Robert Plant and the Sensational Space Shifters, that was a rare treat as they only played if I recall 3 concerts, in New Orleans, Birmingham and NY and that was it.  Plant wanted small theatre venues so the concert was in a small downtown theatre that only holds about 2000 if that and the tickets were sold out in less than a day. I figured that would be the case and made sure I got my tickets in as soon as they opened for sale.

Yes btw are coming here again May next year so I am going to have to see about getting a ticket... ooops  my bad that's in Birmingham UK :(  Grrrrr.


Edited by Spaciousmind - October 03 2020 at 14:30
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Originally posted by Intruder Intruder wrote:

My Love albums sit next to my West Coast USA psych folk next to the Doors, Airplane, Quicksilver, and Steve Miller Band albums; if they were English, I'd slot 'em next to the Zombies, Bee Gees, Move, and Procol Harum albums.  Forever Changes and Odessy and Oracle - two great examples of psychadelic chamber pop.  
I have albums by ALL of those great artists you mentioned. Thumbs Up
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My Love albums sit next to my West Coast USA psych folk next to the Doors, Airplane, Quicksilver, and Steve Miller Band albums; if they were English, I'd slot 'em next to the Zombies, Bee Gees, Move, and Procol Harum albums.  Forever Changes and Odessy and Oracle - two great examples of psychadelic chamber pop.  
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Yep, it really is not that simple, hence my post to see what others are doing.  The problem is (which is a preference so I can separate myself between work time and not working time) I have my working at home office set up downstairs and my music stuff, home computer etc. etc.  upstairs.  I set myself up with an external hard drive, that stores the music and before I start work I pick a few genres depending on my mood on what I want to listen to, these become a playlist for my work day, sorted by artist and albums within genre.  So if I am in a play random mood they play random all day or by album.

Anyway, I put on my blue tooth headphones on and off I trot downstairs to work.

I don't know what you all use as headphones but I deliberated a while between Bose and Sony and went for the Sony and I am really happy I did as they sound great and are comfortable.  Also, I can walk around areas of my garden or take the trash down to the road and still for the most part get a good reception on them.  If I have a call to make or video conference, I tap the side of the head phone to pause the music and pick it back up when I am through.

Well as you can imagine, not everything works when you are working away because some music requires that you really sit down and try to listen to it and understand it ie Eclectic, Metal if it verges on grunge etc. Prog Jazz and so on, that on occasion ends up just noise that irritates you while you are concentrating on some work you are doing.

So being able to sort by genre or even better by mood does become something you want, otherwise you end up either taking the headphones off because of distracting noise you don't have time for at that moment in time.  Even with Genre assuming you set it up with the Prog Archives categories you still have a huge difference of Bands and Sounds that are not always compatible to your listening mood.

I guess I am a little picky and looking for perfection!  lol
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Not only do I sort albums by genre, but I listen to albums alphabetically by genre too.  I couldn't possibly consider placing Camel next to Depeche Mode either. I have a separate CD rack just for Synth-Pop. Smile

the OP is talking about organizing his mp3 files/albums. It could be hard. 
For example alphabetical order does not work for me. Organizing by genre does somehow. 

I was replying to Zeph. Smile

you thought the same thing before replying to him. 
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I have hundreds of albums on MP3, and I totally ignore the genre tag. I pick what to listen to by the Artist, then by album -- never by genre or sub-genre. Why? Because most of the MP3s I've downloaded from Bandcamp, Amazon, etc. all have nonsensical genre's assigned, like Rock or Alternative or Pop. I would have to edit EVERYTHING I own to make it useful, so I just disregard it.
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Originally posted by Cristi Cristi wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Not only do I sort albums by genre, but I listen to albums alphabetically by genre too.  I couldn't possibly consider placing Camel next to Depeche Mode either. I have a separate CD rack just for Synth-Pop. Smile

the OP is talking about organizing his mp3 files/albums. It could be hard. 
For example alphabetical order does not work for me. Organizing by genre does somehow. 

I was replying to Zeph. Smile
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Not only do I sort albums by genre, but I listen to albums alphabetically by genre too.  I couldn't possibly consider placing Camel next to Depeche Mode either. I have a separate CD rack just for Synth-Pop. Smile

the OP is talking about organizing his mp3 files/albums. It could be hard. 
For example alphabetical order does not work for me. Organizing by genre does somehow. 
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Not only do I sort albums by genre, but I listen to albums alphabetically by genre too.  I couldn't possibly consider placing Camel next to Depeche Mode either. I have a separate CD rack just for Synth-Pop. Smile

Edited by Psychedelic Paul - October 03 2020 at 10:13
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Don’t believe I have ever sorted by genre. The genre on PA is an indication of something, but once I find something I like, I sort it alphabetically.
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Love's albums are in the Psychedelic Rock rack in my CD collection, next to Jimi Hendrix. Smile
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