![]() |
The Story of the History of Prog Rock |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Author | |||
DayDawnsDark ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 13 2005 Location: Reading, UK. Status: Offline Points: 80 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Posted: May 08 2021 at 03:33 |
||
My life changed one day in 1975 when I went to my friend Neil's house to play Subbuteo. I lost, but his brother was playing Nursery Cryme. What follows is a brief history of progressive rock from my perspective. You may consider some of it to be fake news, but this is how the story played out in my mind. In the beginning music largely consisted of verse-chorus-verse-chorus and so on and so on, until the listener either died of boredom or ran from the room screaming. Then, in London, some time during the mid-1960s, The Beatles and Donovan started to dabble with new musical structures that removed the need for musical structure. But they weren't quite sure what they were grasping at, and only achieved partial success. It was 1968 when the dramatic change occurred. Many new bands were formed across England, and they had some seriously good ideas. And they would go on to rule the world. Prog was born. Within two years Genesis had created the greatest piece of music the world had ever known, and they called it "The Knife". That honour had previously been held by "The Lark Ascending" from 1914. Prog was revealing its true potential. "The Knife" was to be surpassed time and again by a number of bands over the next five years (prog's golden era). The English giants need no introduction from me. You know who they are. And it doesn't seem worth changing the narrative from English to British, just because of the occasional outlier like Fish. Of course there were also successful bands from other countries, most notably the Netherlands (Focus) and Italy (PFM). Oddly, Americans lapped it all up but seemed completely unaware that they also had their own more-than-adequate prog bands (Cathedral, Yezda Urfa). Many other bands deserved a lot more success than they actually got, including Eloy (Germany), Grobschnitt (Germany), Rainbow Theatre (Australia), Samla Mammas Manna (Sweden) and a few more English bands: Comus, Curved Air, England, Forest, Gnidrolog, Gryphon, Jonesy and The Strawbs. But, even during prog's golden era, there was a big problem bubbling under the surface. The general public were not impressed. Not in the slightest. They had decided that prog bands were too pretentious and too self-important, and needed to be replaced by something like U2. Then a couple of irritable fashion designers in London came up with a cunning plan. And that was to destroy music itself. This new concept was to be called punk, and the really clever bit was to categorise it under Music. The plan worked brilliantly. And so the wilderness years began. Progheads did try to resist at first. They argued that the best track on any album was always the longest one, that gatefold covers provided more space to explain important ideas, that elves and goblins were generally under-represented in modern culture, and that a single keyboard on its own just doesn't look impressive. But their idols turned their backs on them. It felt like the Titanic on a topographic ocean, and the rats scurried off. The mellotrons were unplugged. Prog was dead. The prog dinosaurs desperately tried to reinvent themselves, to avoid being labelled as prog dinosaurs. Peter Hammill attempted to become a punk. Jethro Tull attempted to become Dire Straits. Robert Fripp's disguise was a suit and tie. Yes thought it would be a good idea to swap their leader for a Buggle. Peter Gabriel was suddenly interested in everything except prog. ELP rebranded as Love Beach, providing inspiration for One Direction 30 years later. Pink Floyd diverted their attention from composing beautiful music to manufacturing the mother of all concept albums. Rick Wakeman spotted a gap in the market for a jovial raconteur. Camel reverted to being an even-toed ungulate and cigarette brand. Deep Purple started launching heavy metal bands. Fish thought that now was the right moment to actually launch a prog career, but he was ten years too late. And Genesis turned to comedy, producing a string of spoof hits that culminated in the magnificent "I Can't Dance". This song is now considered to be the third funniest thing that's ever happened, after Phil Davison's Election Speech and Children Interrupt BBC News Interview. To go from "The Knife" and "The Musical Box" to "I Can't Dance" shows how far we can travel in one lifetime, but the direction of travel is up to us. A well-meaning relative once bought me a biography of Genesis. I got as far as the bit that praised Nursery Cryme as a band learning their trade in preparation for the bigger things to come. Anyway, the Great Reinvention Scramble was complete. And punk gave way to something more stylish. And everybody was happy. Except us progheads. We failed to grasp that music was really about the clothes. Geddy Lee predicted that it would be 2112 before humanity rediscovered what a guitar was for. Thankfully, we didn't have to wait that long. It happened in Stockholm in 1991, while the rest of the world was sleeping. A guitar was found, along with a shed load of other instruments. We can only speculate about what these people were thinking, and the creative process that followed. We do know that they were confident enough to sing in a language that nobody could understand, and give themselves a name that nobody could pronounce: Änglagård. It's possible that they sang in Swedish because they thought that no foreigners would ever want to hear their music. If so, they were very wrong. Ikea, Abba, Volvo, Änglagård. Prog was reborn, and Fish was ten years too early this time. Änglagård were quickly followed by compatriots Anekdoten and Pär Lindh. However, it was a slow burn. This was pre-internet, when the fate of new music was determined only by radio stations. So it was a long time before the progheads became aware that prog was alive and living in Sweden. Since the dawn of the 21st century, the centre of gravity of the prog universe has shifted slightly west and is now anchored firmly in the middle of Oslo. Of course there has been plenty of great music coming from other places too: Italy (Areknamés, Daal, Dark Quarterer), Germany (Blind Guardian), USA (Discipline, Phideaux), China (Omnipotent Youth Society), Finland (Von Hertzen Brothers) and many others. But the English continued to deny they were ever involved. Meanwhile, Norway have Wobbler, who are officially the best band in the world (Note to self: this needs fact-checking). And they have Jordsjø. And Tusmørke. And others coming up behind. Prog will never be over ground again, but it will continue in some form forever. It won't die a second time. And that's because of all of the innovative new bands being created worldwide. And there's also something that's even more important than any single band, and that's Progarchives. Progarchives keeps our genre alive and kicking, providing a vital platform for us to share the knowledge and the passion. Without it, I would probably still think that Fish had been the last to leave the building. So thanks Progarchives. And thanks to every musician who ever tried pushing the boundaries. The English giants did eventually own up to their early careers, once they realised there was money to be made from halls full of balding middle-aged codgers like me. The rats had scurried back on board, but this was just a historical footnote. They were stowaways on a Viking longship. Am I still bitter after all these years? You bet I am! Neil's brother caused me a lifetime of anguish, and I can't even remember his name. I will leave you with one final thought. Everybody loves "Bohemian Rhapsody". I get that, it's brilliant. But there's nothing about it that isn't 100% prog. And, as you know, everybody hates prog. It doesn't make sense! |
|||
![]() |
|||
suitkees ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 19 2020 Location: France Status: Offline Points: 9050 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
^ I never cared much about football, but playing subbuteo was great!
|
|||
The razamataz is a pain in the bum |
|||
![]() |
|||
Neo-Romantic ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 09 2013 Status: Offline Points: 928 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
|||
May God bless you all in Jesus' name. No matter who you are, you're special, you're loved, and you matter.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
I prophesy disaster ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 31 2017 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5012 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc?
|
|||
No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Progishness ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2020 Location: Planet Rhubarb Status: Offline Points: 2565 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
As did advancements in recording techniques/studios (multi-track tape recorders, gosh!) - not to mention the bands going into the studio and exploiting all this latest technology to see what they could get it to do.
|
|||
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2 |
|||
![]() |
|||
Manuel ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: March 09 2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 13481 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Nice perspective. It seems like a journey through time.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
twosteves ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: May 01 2007 Location: NYC/Rhinebeck Status: Offline Points: 4098 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
[QUOTE=I prophesy disaster]
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc?
agree 100% and the boys in Yes Genesis ELP etc were paid money to have their names tied to the new technology. Some of the new technology on lets say Tomato which the guys used--was a mixed result. And besides his great work as a session guy and with the Strawbs---Rick got the job because of all the keys he was playing---and Kaye wasn't interested in them at the time.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
DayDawnsDark ![]() Forum Groupie ![]() ![]() Joined: March 13 2005 Location: Reading, UK. Status: Offline Points: 80 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Thanks for the comments. I never took much notice of the technology until my son unexpectedly became a proghead and started explaining it to me.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
Grumpyprogfan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 09 2019 Location: KC Status: Offline Points: 13068 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Nice story, but it's all fake news. Prog never died and it's still going strong. Let us not forget, according to PA, Miles Davis Kind of Blue was the beginning of prog rock. It was recorded live to two track (tape) with no electronic instruments or overdubs.
Wobbler the best band in the world??
![]() ![]() ![]() |
|||
![]() |
|||
Psychedelic Paul ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: September 16 2019 Location: Nottingham, U.K Status: Online Points: 46129 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
I'm not sure if Wobbler are even the best band in Norway.
![]() |
|||
![]() |
|||
BrufordFreak ![]() Collaborator ![]() ![]() Honorary Collaborator Joined: January 25 2008 Location: Wisconsin Status: Offline Points: 8675 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Highly entertaining! Thanks! |
|||
Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/ |
|||
![]() |
|||
Catcher10 ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() VIP Member Joined: December 23 2009 Location: Emerald City Status: Offline Points: 18084 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
KoB was recorded to 3 track tape.........and yea Wobbler
![]() |
|||
![]() ![]() ![]() |
|||
![]() |
|||
Grumpyprogfan ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: July 09 2019 Location: KC Status: Offline Points: 13068 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
|
|||
![]() |
|||
moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18993 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Hi, I do think that the music should be better defined, and that an instrument should not be the reason why something or other is called anything. It's just crazy and bizarre ... but we should be looking at the music, its structure and design ... and not worry about it having been a tuba or a violin or a Moog ... it makes no difference, in the end, if the group's work is well done and composed and designed. As a very important exercise, many folks that like ELP can not hear Rachel Flowers do a piano version of TARKUS, and all it does is show you how great the composition was and how well KE had to present it to an audience that wouldn't pay 15 cents for a "piano concert" ... and even less these days! I just find, and this is me, that the story, based on the instruments is for folks that don't study music history ... no one, for example, is saying that "jazz" was formed and designed because of an instrument, and some folks in this board and other places, need to show the same respect for the progressive music itself ... Edited by moshkito - May 08 2021 at 10:15 |
|||
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
![]() |
|||
Progishness ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: December 10 2020 Location: Planet Rhubarb Status: Offline Points: 2565 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
The actual instruments certainly don't define a genre, but my point was that the variety of instrumentation available and the advancements in technology played their part, but it still needs skilled/creative people to make something good with it all.
|
|||
"We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2 |
|||
![]() |
|||
Logan ![]() Forum & Site Admin Group ![]() ![]() Site Admin Joined: April 05 2006 Location: In repose. Status: Offline Points: 38986 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
A very enjoyable read. I will say that for me the most interesting progressive music under the Prog umbrella when symphonic and more "mainstream" prog went into decline (i.e. the fallow years as some would put it) were those into the RIO and Avant Prog, or more experimental rock and rock-related avenues. Going into or in the 80s, bands with a Rock in Opposition connection like Art Zoyd, Univers Zéro, and Present were strong, and we saw the rise of Cardiacs (with something of a Pronk sensibility) and The Residents put out some, I think, very strong albums at the end of 70s and into the early 80s. This Heat released a couple of strong ones, at least, during this time as did many others of the avant prog ilk.
When stereotypically Prog bands were "compromising" their music to better fit certain commercial expectations, many others had a more uncompromising vision (those of the RIO ilk most notably, who had set tried to set themselves up in opposition to the music industry). And I think bigger name people like Robert Wyatt and Peter Hammill continued to put out interesting music. Also, the Japanese scene (such as After Dinner) was strong for me in the 80s and up. And I think there was still much interesting music being made in the progressive electronic realm. I also think that labels like Cuneiform Records and Recommended Records (from Henry Cow's Chris Cutler) did much for progressive music. Prog never died and became poorly for me, one might say it just went more underground. Interesting and diverse for me music continued to be after Prog's classic heyday. By the way, much of my favourite Prog rock these days draws on older psychedelic qualities and incorporates Krautrock aesthetics. A lot of my favourite modern progressive rock can be quite regressive or retro (which presents an interesting apparent contradiction of terms), or very much so in the case of, say, Kosmischer Läufer. I'm not so into the prog metal, modern symph prog (though I have loved Kotebel) or Neo Prog realms, but then I'm also not that big on the classic likes of Genesis, ELP, or Yes -- such music helped get me into Prog, but it's not what held my attention. Edited by Logan - May 08 2021 at 10:58 |
|||
Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18993 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Hi, I'm not convinced that skilled/creative people were the ones that made it all happen ... many of the folks in many bands were very young, and other than maybe KE and RW and a handful of others, had some music school studying that they opted out because they could not do anything. You really think that KE could present TARKUS on the staff to a professor as if it were done just on a piano? NOPE. The answer would likely be too weird and the changes did not make sense and the melodies don't always come together, and a myriad of other crap. It got to the point that folks music majors at UCSB in the early 80's were composing music strictly by the "paper" (score) and changing notes ... they likely could not even "hear it" in their minds at all ... other wise some of those changes would come off as simply stupid and senseless. And this is my only criticism of the DAW age ... too many folks have lost the sight of the feeling and experience of the music in your body ... they only use the "mind". Technology has been there before ... and shown differently ... and even in the days of recording of orchestras there were conductors that intentionally changed the make up of the orchestra so that this would have a stronger effect than the violins, for example. The size of the orchestration of musical pieces changed the field of music around 400 years ago ... and the electricity introduced in the 20th century created even more changes ... some of which we all saw! When you are 20 and just entering college or a year or two into it, what is known as "creative/skillful" is how INDEPENDENT the person is from his studies and how he/she has learned to use their instrument ... look, Mick did not go to school to learn his inflections and acting ability on each song ... and some folks that do keyboards, are STILL doing the same riff on different notes ... and on the same instrument, so you think that it is good and better! As much as I liked the Moog and a lot of synth stuff (greatest collection of experimental electronics you ever heard of!) ... in the end, it wasn't KE's use of the Moog that mattered ... it was how he interpreted the music, and the use of the instrument helped identify him right away, because no one had used it that way ... things like SOBach were garbage by comparison ... and all of a sudden someone could make the "Moog" speak ... and that is the difference ... but we don't want to go around saying that it could not "speak" in any other way ... Rachel Flowers shows us the difference ... which suggests (to me) that our emphasis is incorrect and not in the music itself ... so in that sense, electronics is not a great change since nowadays, anyone using synths and electronics are doing the exact same thing done 60 years ago! These folks still have not quite discovered how to use the instrument ... only how to do what someone else did!
|
|||
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
![]() |
|||
SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
I'm not sure if you're celebrating prog or ranting that it's now a niche genre. If it's the latter, that's life.
|
|||
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
|||
![]() |
|||
moshkito ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: January 04 2007 Location: Grok City Status: Offline Points: 18993 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
Hi, I'm celebrating a history of great beauty in the music itself ... and that it was NOT one instrument that made it better. One can sit and do LUCKY MAN on the piano, and it would still sound lovely ... and I think that sometimes we're thinking that the instrument made the difference ... I'm not sure about that ... because it brings down the quality and talent of the person doing it. There were/are some magnificent things out there, and their beauty is shown time and time again ... and I think it would be better for the music, if we celebrated the great feeling and touch of the music itself, that excited us ... it wasn't the Moog that did it ... it was KE's hands that made it work! And, in some ways, he doesn't get credit for that beauty and how he applied his work to the various synthesizers. It was much better designed than someone like RW in my book!
|
|||
Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com |
|||
![]() |
|||
SteveG ![]() Forum Senior Member ![]() ![]() Joined: April 11 2014 Location: Kyiv In Spirit Status: Offline Points: 20617 |
![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() |
||
![]() |
|||
This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
|||
![]() |
Post Reply ![]() |
Page 12> |
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions ![]() You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |