The Story of the History of Prog Rock
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Topic: The Story of the History of Prog Rock
Posted By: DayDawnsDark
Subject: The Story of the History of Prog Rock
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 03:33
My life changed one day in 1975 when I went to my friend Neil's house to play Subbuteo. I lost, but his brother was playing Nursery Cryme. What follows is a brief history of progressive rock from my perspective. You may consider some of it to be fake news, but this is how the story played out in my mind. In the beginning music largely consisted of verse-chorus-verse-chorus and so on and so on, until the listener either died of boredom or ran from the room screaming. Then, in London, some time during the mid-1960s, The Beatles and Donovan started to dabble with new musical structures that removed the need for musical structure. But they weren't quite sure what they were grasping at, and only achieved partial success. It was 1968 when the dramatic change occurred. Many new bands were formed across England, and they had some seriously good ideas. And they would go on to rule the world. Prog was born. Within two years Genesis had created the greatest piece of music the world had ever known, and they called it "The Knife". That honour had previously been held by "The Lark Ascending" from 1914. Prog was revealing its true potential. "The Knife" was to be surpassed time and again by a number of bands over the next five years (prog's golden era). The English giants need no introduction from me. You know who they are. And it doesn't seem worth changing the narrative from English to British, just because of the occasional outlier like Fish. Of course there were also successful bands from other countries, most notably the Netherlands (Focus) and Italy (PFM). Oddly, Americans lapped it all up but seemed completely unaware that they also had their own more-than-adequate prog bands (Cathedral, Yezda Urfa). Many other bands deserved a lot more success than they actually got, including Eloy (Germany), Grobschnitt (Germany), Rainbow Theatre (Australia), Samla Mammas Manna (Sweden) and a few more English bands: Comus, Curved Air, England, Forest, Gnidrolog, Gryphon, Jonesy and The Strawbs. But, even during prog's golden era, there was a big problem bubbling under the surface. The general public were not impressed. Not in the slightest. They had decided that prog bands were too pretentious and too self-important, and needed to be replaced by something like U2. Then a couple of irritable fashion designers in London came up with a cunning plan. And that was to destroy music itself. This new concept was to be called punk, and the really clever bit was to categorise it under Music. The plan worked brilliantly. And so the wilderness years began. Progheads did try to resist at first. They argued that the best track on any album was always the longest one, that gatefold covers provided more space to explain important ideas, that elves and goblins were generally under-represented in modern culture, and that a single keyboard on its own just doesn't look impressive. But their idols turned their backs on them. It felt like the Titanic on a topographic ocean, and the rats scurried off. The mellotrons were unplugged. Prog was dead. The prog dinosaurs desperately tried to reinvent themselves, to avoid being labelled as prog dinosaurs. Peter Hammill attempted to become a punk. Jethro Tull attempted to become Dire Straits. Robert Fripp's disguise was a suit and tie. Yes thought it would be a good idea to swap their leader for a Buggle. Peter Gabriel was suddenly interested in everything except prog. ELP rebranded as Love Beach, providing inspiration for One Direction 30 years later. Pink Floyd diverted their attention from composing beautiful music to manufacturing the mother of all concept albums. Rick Wakeman spotted a gap in the market for a jovial raconteur. Camel reverted to being an even-toed ungulate and cigarette brand. Deep Purple started launching heavy metal bands. Fish thought that now was the right moment to actually launch a prog career, but he was ten years too late. And Genesis turned to comedy, producing a string of spoof hits that culminated in the magnificent "I Can't Dance". This song is now considered to be the third funniest thing that's ever happened, after Phil Davison's Election Speech and Children Interrupt BBC News Interview. To go from "The Knife" and "The Musical Box" to "I Can't Dance" shows how far we can travel in one lifetime, but the direction of travel is up to us. A well-meaning relative once bought me a biography of Genesis. I got as far as the bit that praised Nursery Cryme as a band learning their trade in preparation for the bigger things to come. Anyway, the Great Reinvention Scramble was complete. And punk gave way to something more stylish. And everybody was happy. Except us progheads. We failed to grasp that music was really about the clothes. Geddy Lee predicted that it would be 2112 before humanity rediscovered what a guitar was for. Thankfully, we didn't have to wait that long. It happened in Stockholm in 1991, while the rest of the world was sleeping. A guitar was found, along with a shed load of other instruments. We can only speculate about what these people were thinking, and the creative process that followed. We do know that they were confident enough to sing in a language that nobody could understand, and give themselves a name that nobody could pronounce: Änglagård. It's possible that they sang in Swedish because they thought that no foreigners would ever want to hear their music. If so, they were very wrong. Ikea, Abba, Volvo, Änglagård. Prog was reborn, and Fish was ten years too early this time. Änglagård were quickly followed by compatriots Anekdoten and Pär Lindh. However, it was a slow burn. This was pre-internet, when the fate of new music was determined only by radio stations. So it was a long time before the progheads became aware that prog was alive and living in Sweden. Since the dawn of the 21st century, the centre of gravity of the prog universe has shifted slightly west and is now anchored firmly in the middle of Oslo. Of course there has been plenty of great music coming from other places too: Italy (Areknamés, Daal, Dark Quarterer), Germany (Blind Guardian), USA (Discipline, Phideaux), China (Omnipotent Youth Society), Finland (Von Hertzen Brothers) and many others. But the English continued to deny they were ever involved. Meanwhile, Norway have Wobbler, who are officially the best band in the world (Note to self: this needs fact-checking). And they have Jordsjø. And Tusmørke. And others coming up behind. Prog will never be over ground again, but it will continue in some form forever. It won't die a second time. And that's because of all of the innovative new bands being created worldwide. And there's also something that's even more important than any single band, and that's Progarchives. Progarchives keeps our genre alive and kicking, providing a vital platform for us to share the knowledge and the passion. Without it, I would probably still think that Fish had been the last to leave the building. So thanks Progarchives. And thanks to every musician who ever tried pushing the boundaries. The English giants did eventually own up to their early careers, once they realised there was money to be made from halls full of balding middle-aged codgers like me. The rats had scurried back on board, but this was just a historical footnote. They were stowaways on a Viking longship. Am I still bitter after all these years? You bet I am! Neil's brother caused me a lifetime of anguish, and I can't even remember his name. I will leave you with one final thought. Everybody loves "Bohemian Rhapsody". I get that, it's brilliant. But there's nothing about it that isn't 100% prog. And, as you know, everybody hates prog. It doesn't make sense!
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Replies:
Posted By: suitkees
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 04:35
^ I never cared much about football, but playing subbuteo was great!
------------- The razamataz is a pain in the bum
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Posted By: Neo-Romantic
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 05:21
Very nice!
------------- May God bless you all in Jesus' name. No matter who you are, you're special, you're loved, and you matter.
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Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 05:58
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc?
------------- No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.
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Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 06:55
I prophesy disaster wrote:
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc? |
As did advancements in recording techniques/studios (multi-track tape recorders, gosh!) - not to mention the bands going into the studio and exploiting all this latest technology to see what they could get it to do.
------------- "We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
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Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 07:22
Nice perspective. It seems like a journey through time.
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Posted By: twosteves
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 07:29
[QUOTE=I prophesy disaster]
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc? agree 100% and the boys in Yes Genesis ELP etc were paid money to have their names tied to the new technology. Some of the new technology on lets say Tomato which the guys used--was a mixed result. And besides his great work as a session guy and with the Strawbs---Rick got the job because of all the keys he was playing---and Kaye wasn't interested in them at the time.
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Posted By: DayDawnsDark
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 07:45
Thanks for the comments. I never took much notice of the technology until my son unexpectedly became a proghead and started explaining it to me.
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 08:01
Nice story, but it's all fake news. Prog never died and it's still going strong. Let us not forget, according to PA, Miles Davis Kind of Blue was the beginning of prog rock. It was recorded live to two track (tape) with no electronic instruments or overdubs.
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Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 08:35
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
Nice story, but it's all fake news. Prog never died and it's still going strong. Let us not forget, according to PA, Miles Davis Kind of Blue was the beginning of prog rock. It was recorded live to two track (tape) with no electronic instruments or overdubs.
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I'm not sure if Wobbler are even the best band in Norway. 
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Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 08:44
Neo-Romantic wrote:
Very nice!  |
Highly entertaining! Thanks!
------------- Drew Fisher https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/
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Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 09:34
Grumpyprogfan wrote:
Nice story, but it's all fake news. Prog never died and it's still going strong. Let us not forget, according to PA, Miles Davis Kind of Blue was the beginning of prog rock. It was recorded live to two track (tape) with no electronic instruments or overdubs.
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KoB was recorded to 3 track tape.........and yea Wobbler  . But hey we are all entitled to our opinions.
-------------
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Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 09:54
Catcher10 wrote:
KoB was recorded to 3 track tape. | Did not know that. So that was one of the first multitrack recorders? I'm sure the vinyl sounds killer.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 10:12
Progishness wrote:
I prophesy disaster wrote:
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc? |
As did advancements in recording techniques/studios (multi-track tape recorders, gosh!) - not to mention the bands going into the studio and exploiting all this latest technology to see what they could get it to do.
|
Hi,
I do think that the music should be better defined, and that an instrument should not be the reason why something or other is called anything. It's just crazy and bizarre ... but we should be looking at the music, its structure and design ... and not worry about it having been a tuba or a violin or a Moog ... it makes no difference, in the end, if the group's work is well done and composed and designed. As a very important exercise, many folks that like ELP can not hear Rachel Flowers do a piano version of TARKUS, and all it does is show you how great the composition was and how well KE had to present it to an audience that wouldn't pay 15 cents for a "piano concert" ... and even less these days!
I just find, and this is me, that the story, based on the instruments is for folks that don't study music history ... no one, for example, is saying that "jazz" was formed and designed because of an instrument, and some folks in this board and other places, need to show the same respect for the progressive music itself ...
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: Progishness
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 10:22
moshkito wrote:
Progishness wrote:
I prophesy disaster wrote:
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc? |
As did advancements in recording techniques/studios (multi-track tape recorders, gosh!) - not to mention the bands going into the studio and exploiting all this latest technology to see what they could get it to do.
|
Hi,
I do think that the music should be better defined, and that an instrument should not be the reason why something or other is called anything. It's just crazy and bizarre ... but we should be looking at the music, its structure and design ... and not worry about it having been a tuba or a violin or a Moog ... it makes no difference, in the end, if the group's work is well done and composed and designed. As a very important exercise, many folks that like ELP can not hear Rachel Flowers do a piano version of TARKUS, and all it does is show you how great the composition was and how well KE had to present it to an audience that wouldn't pay 15 cents for a "piano concert" ... and even less these days!
I just find, and this is me, that the story, based on the instruments is for folks that don't study music history ... no one, for example, is saying that "jazz" was formed and designed because of an instrument, and some folks in this board and other places, need to show the same respect for the progressive music itself ...
|
The actual instruments certainly don't define a genre, but my point was that the variety of instrumentation available and the advancements in technology played their part, but it still needs skilled/creative people to make something good with it all.
------------- "We're going to need a bigger swear jar."
Chloë Grace Moretz as Mindy McCready aka 'Hit Girl' in Kick-Ass 2
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Posted By: Logan
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 10:29
A very enjoyable read. I will say that for me the most interesting progressive music under the Prog umbrella when symphonic and more "mainstream" prog went into decline (i.e. the fallow years as some would put it) were those into the RIO and Avant Prog, or more experimental rock and rock-related avenues. Going into or in the 80s, bands with a Rock in Opposition connection like Art Zoyd, Univers Zéro, and Present were strong, and we saw the rise of Cardiacs (with something of a Pronk sensibility) and The Residents put out some, I think, very strong albums at the end of 70s and into the early 80s. This Heat released a couple of strong ones, at least, during this time as did many others of the avant prog ilk.
When stereotypically Prog bands were "compromising" their music to better fit certain commercial expectations, many others had a more uncompromising vision (those of the RIO ilk most notably, who had set tried to set themselves up in opposition to the music industry). And I think bigger name people like Robert Wyatt and Peter Hammill continued to put out interesting music. Also, the Japanese scene (such as After Dinner) was strong for me in the 80s and up. And I think there was still much interesting music being made in the progressive electronic realm.
I also think that labels like Cuneiform Records and Recommended Records (from Henry Cow's Chris Cutler) did much for progressive music. Prog never died and became poorly for me, one might say it just went more underground. Interesting and diverse for me music continued to be after Prog's classic heyday.
By the way, much of my favourite Prog rock these days draws on older psychedelic qualities and incorporates Krautrock aesthetics. A lot of my favourite modern progressive rock can be quite regressive or retro (which presents an interesting apparent contradiction of terms), or very much so in the case of, say, Kosmischer Läufer. I'm not so into the prog metal, modern symph prog (though I have loved Kotebel) or Neo Prog realms, but then I'm also not that big on the classic likes of Genesis, ELP, or Yes -- such music helped get me into Prog, but it's not what held my attention.
------------- Watching while most appreciating a sunset in the moment need not diminish all the glorious sunsets I have observed before. It can be much like that with music for me.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 10:42
Progishness wrote:
... The actual instruments certainly don't define a genre, but my point was that the variety of instrumentation available and the advancements in technology played their part, but it still needs skilled/creative people to make something good with it all.
|
Hi,
I'm not convinced that skilled/creative people were the ones that made it all happen ... many of the folks in many bands were very young, and other than maybe KE and RW and a handful of others, had some music school studying that they opted out because they could not do anything.
You really think that KE could present TARKUS on the staff to a professor as if it were done just on a piano? NOPE. The answer would likely be too weird and the changes did not make sense and the melodies don't always come together, and a myriad of other crap. It got to the point that folks music majors at UCSB in the early 80's were composing music strictly by the "paper" (score) and changing notes ... they likely could not even "hear it" in their minds at all ... other wise some of those changes would come off as simply stupid and senseless. And this is my only criticism of the DAW age ... too many folks have lost the sight of the feeling and experience of the music in your body ... they only use the "mind".
Technology has been there before ... and shown differently ... and even in the days of recording of orchestras there were conductors that intentionally changed the make up of the orchestra so that this would have a stronger effect than the violins, for example. The size of the orchestration of musical pieces changed the field of music around 400 years ago ... and the electricity introduced in the 20th century created even more changes ... some of which we all saw!
When you are 20 and just entering college or a year or two into it, what is known as "creative/skillful" is how INDEPENDENT the person is from his studies and how he/she has learned to use their instrument ... look, Mick did not go to school to learn his inflections and acting ability on each song ... and some folks that do keyboards, are STILL doing the same riff on different notes ... and on the same instrument, so you think that it is good and better!
As much as I liked the Moog and a lot of synth stuff (greatest collection of experimental electronics you ever heard of!) ... in the end, it wasn't KE's use of the Moog that mattered ... it was how he interpreted the music, and the use of the instrument helped identify him right away, because no one had used it that way ... things like SOBach were garbage by comparison ... and all of a sudden someone could make the "Moog" speak ... and that is the difference ... but we don't want to go around saying that it could not "speak" in any other way ... Rachel Flowers shows us the difference ... which suggests (to me) that our emphasis is incorrect and not in the music itself ... so in that sense, electronics is not a great change since nowadays, anyone using synths and electronics are doing the exact same thing done 60 years ago! These folks still have not quite discovered how to use the instrument ... only how to do what someone else did!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 11:29
I'm not sure if you're celebrating prog or ranting that it's now a niche genre. If it's the latter, that's life.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 13:57
SteveG wrote:
I'm not sure if you're celebrating prog or ranting that it's now a niche genre. If it's the latter, that's life. |
Hi,
I'm celebrating a history of great beauty in the music itself ... and that it was NOT one instrument that made it better. One can sit and do LUCKY MAN on the piano, and it would still sound lovely ... and I think that sometimes we're thinking that the instrument made the difference ... I'm not sure about that ... because it brings down the quality and talent of the person doing it.
There were/are some magnificent things out there, and their beauty is shown time and time again ... and I think it would be better for the music, if we celebrated the great feeling and touch of the music itself, that excited us ... it wasn't the Moog that did it ... it was KE's hands that made it work! And, in some ways, he doesn't get credit for that beauty and how he applied his work to the various synthesizers. It was much better designed than someone like RW in my book!
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
|
Posted By: SteveG
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 14:04
moshkito wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I'm not sure if you're celebrating prog or ranting that it's now a niche genre. If it's the latter, that's life. |
Hi,
I'm celebrating a history of great beauty in the music itself ... and that it was NOT one instrument that made it better. One can sit and do LUCKY MAN on the piano, and it would still sound lovely ... and I think that sometimes we're thinking that the instrument made the difference ... I'm not sure about that ... because it brings down the quality and talent of the person doing it.
There were/are some magnificent things out there, and their beauty is shown time and time again ... and I think it would be better for the music, if we celebrated the great feeling and touch of the music itself, that excited us ... it wasn't the Moog that did it ... it was KE's hands that made it work! And, in some ways, he doesn't get credit for that beauty and how he applied his work to the various synthesizers. It was much better designed than someone like RW in my book! | I know that you're celebrating something, but I'll be damned if I know what.
------------- This message was brought to you by a proud supporter of the Deep State.
|
Posted By: progaardvark
Date Posted: May 08 2021 at 14:38
SteveG wrote:
moshkito wrote:
SteveG wrote:
I'm not sure if you're celebrating prog or ranting that it's now a niche genre. If it's the latter, that's life. |
Hi,
I'm celebrating a history of great beauty in the music itself ... and that it was NOT one instrument that made it better. One can sit and do LUCKY MAN on the piano, and it would still sound lovely ... and I think that sometimes we're thinking that the instrument made the difference ... I'm not sure about that ... because it brings down the quality and talent of the person doing it.
There were/are some magnificent things out there, and their beauty is shown time and time again ... and I think it would be better for the music, if we celebrated the great feeling and touch of the music itself, that excited us ... it wasn't the Moog that did it ... it was KE's hands that made it work! And, in some ways, he doesn't get credit for that beauty and how he applied his work to the various synthesizers. It was much better designed than someone like RW in my book! | I know that you're celebrating something, but I'll be damned if I know what.  |
And I count seven ellipses in the middle of all that suggesting that there were probably seven different tangents that were omitted by the NSA before it got posted from the time machine he's in that's orbiting the Earth.
------------- ---------- i'm shopping for a new oil-cured sinus bag that's a happy bag of lettuce this car smells like cartilage nothing beats a good video about fractions
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Posted By: Frenetic Zetetic
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 00:07
Progishness wrote:
I prophesy disaster wrote:
I think technology played a crucial role in the development of Progressive Rock. Would there be Progressive Rock without such instruments as the mellotron, Moog synthesiser, etc? |
As did advancements in recording techniques/studios (multi-track tape recorders, gosh!) - not to mention the bands going into the studio and exploiting all this latest technology to see what they could get it to do.
|
Great and under-appreciated points right here! Hello, Mello! Would you like to play? 
Great post OP.
-------------
"I am so prog, I listen to concept albums on shuffle." -KMac2021
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Posted By: Awesoreno
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 02:19
moshkito wrote:
Progishness wrote:
... The actual instruments certainly don't define a genre, but my point was that the variety of instrumentation available and the advancements in technology played their part, but it still needs skilled/creative people to make something good with it all.
|
Hi,
I'm not convinced that skilled/creative people were the ones that made it all happen ... many of the folks in many bands were very young, and other than maybe KE and RW and a handful of others, had some music school studying that they opted out because they could not do anything.
You really think that KE could present TARKUS on the staff to a professor as if it were done just on a piano? NOPE. The answer would likely be too weird and the changes did not make sense and the melodies don't always come together, and a myriad of other crap. It got to the point that folks music majors at UCSB in the early 80's were composing music strictly by the "paper" (score) and changing notes ... they likely could not even "hear it" in their minds at all ... other wise some of those changes would come off as simply stupid and senseless. And this is my only criticism of the DAW age ... too many folks have lost the sight of the feeling and experience of the music in your body ... they only use the "mind".
Technology has been there before ... and shown differently ... and even in the days of recording of orchestras there were conductors that intentionally changed the make up of the orchestra so that this would have a stronger effect than the violins, for example. The size of the orchestration of musical pieces changed the field of music around 400 years ago ... and the electricity introduced in the 20th century created even more changes ... some of which we all saw!
When you are 20 and just entering college or a year or two into it, what is known as "creative/skillful" is how INDEPENDENT the person is from his studies and how he/she has learned to use their instrument ... look, Mick did not go to school to learn his inflections and acting ability on each song ... and some folks that do keyboards, are STILL doing the same riff on different notes ... and on the same instrument, so you think that it is good and better!
As much as I liked the Moog and a lot of synth stuff (greatest collection of experimental electronics you ever heard of!) ... in the end, it wasn't KE's use of the Moog that mattered ... it was how he interpreted the music, and the use of the instrument helped identify him right away, because no one had used it that way ... things like SOBach were garbage by comparison ... and all of a sudden someone could make the "Moog" speak ... and that is the difference ... but we don't want to go around saying that it could not "speak" in any other way ... Rachel Flowers shows us the difference ... which suggests (to me) that our emphasis is incorrect and not in the music itself ... so in that sense, electronics is not a great change since nowadays, anyone using synths and electronics are doing the exact same thing done 60 years ago! These folks still have not quite discovered how to use the instrument ... only how to do what someone else did! |
As a recent graduate (class of 2020), I can confirm that the UCSB Music Department is still not great.
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Posted By: DayDawnsDark
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 03:04
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
I'm not sure if Wobbler are even the best band in Norway.  |
You might be right. Jordsjo, Tusmorke and Caligonaut have all raised the bar with their lockdown albums.
It's interesting that having lived through it (at least partially) people still have different versions of what just happened over the last 50 years. It makes me wonder how accurate school history books are, written hundreds of years after the event.
And personally I prefer to discuss how KE's music makes people feel, rather than how he made the music. But if everybody was like me, there wouldn't have been any keyboards for him to play. We would have spent the evenings discussing who has the best voice, like a bunch of prehistoric Simon Cowells, and nobody would have been carving up bits of wood and bone to make new sounds.
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Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 08:13
DayDawnsDark wrote:
Psychedelic Paul wrote:
I'm not sure if Wobbler are even the best band in Norway.  |
You might be right. Jordsjo, Tusmorke and Caligonaut have all raised the bar with their lockdown albums.
It's interesting that having lived through it (at least partially) people still have different versions of what just happened over the last 50 years. It makes me wonder how accurate school history books are, written hundreds of years after the event. ... |
Hi,
It's never been accurate ... from the earliest stuff with religious overtones turning Greek stories into silly children's myths, to the horrible translations by "scholars" of the biblical books ... it's been a history of a lot of changes and lies ... specially when so much of it was stolen from a lot of Sumerian and other Middle East legends and stories.
I hope, sincerely, that with the ability of the new media and history that things improve in the 20th and 21st Centuries, but so far it's strange and weird ... just like a lot of fans here not understanding the social context of a lot of music, because it gets thought of as a hit on a top list ... not anything else.
------------- Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told! www.pedrosena.com
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Posted By: Lewian
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 13:42
Nice read, of course (as you know) very subjective... I think the number one thing different in my story would be that Talk Talk did something much more exciting than Anglagard at about the same time, going forward rather than half going back, but of course taste-wise we all live on different planets anyway (of course I gotta grant you that Anglagard's half going back fits your renaissance story much better).
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 13:57
I like punk music and I really love Clash and Devo. I think Cardiacs are the evolution of Devo (interesting that somebody is the evolution of a devolution). There was a plan, of course. It was called marketing. Selling low-cost music at the same price of a Rick Wakeman's pretentious concept album, put punk didn't kill prog. Both prog and punk did their best to kill themselves.
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: octopus-4
Date Posted: May 09 2021 at 13:59
,,but effectively Änglagård caused my full reimmersion into prog, together with After Crying, Proto-Kaw and Spock's Beard.
------------- I stand with Roger Waters, I stand with Joan Baez, I stand with Victor Jara, I stand with Woody Guthrie. Music is revolution
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Posted By: VianaProghead
Date Posted: May 10 2021 at 09:02
I read your text with great pleasure and joy. It shows a nice and interesting personal perspective of prog. I really liked it very much. Thanks for the post. It brought to my memory many great prog moments in my life.
------------- "PROG IS MY FERRARI". Jem Godfrey (Frost*)
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Posted By: b_olariu
Date Posted: May 12 2021 at 01:25
Intresting read for sure, but as others said the prog never
died, but gone in the shadow a bit, but was resurected and still kicking
today
Nice comments overall, really
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Posted By: Ronstein
Date Posted: May 12 2021 at 03:16
Interesting read, but I would suggest that prog had no single birthplace. Changes is society post war that really started to take off in the late '50's and early '60's created an environment where all aspects of life, but especially expressive ones, had the shackles taken off, rules were 'yesterday, 'man'.
Music was being re-invented in many places, but the UK (in the major cities) and USA (especially the West Coast - see 'Laurel Canyon') were places where the blending of multiple musical influences and the utilisation of new technologies (however rudimentary) created a melting pot where everyone was taking it one step further.
If you just look at the Beatles, every album was a huge step up and away from their origins, driven in part by seeing what Brian Wilson was creating. Brian Wilson in turn was seeing what the Beatles created and taking it a step further.
In Laurel Canyon, where Zappa was an early settler, you had Country, Folk, Pop, Jazz etc mixing together on a daily basis in an artists community. When you have The Monkees hanging out with Zappa, you go from TV pop to 'Head'.
From there, every aspiring musician in the world heard these outpourings and took them and made them something different.
The album that sums it up best for me is Dr Strangely Strange's 1969 debut 'Kip of the Serenes' It's somewhat unprofessional, incorporates classical themes, psalms, absurdity, folk, pop, rock and is utterly brilliant. It's also something that couldn't have existed in 1966.
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Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: May 13 2021 at 01:52
DayDawnsDark wrote:
The prog dinosaurs desperately tried to reinvent themselves, to avoid being labelled as prog dinosaurs. Peter Hammill attempted to become a punk. Jethro Tull attempted to become Dire Straits. Robert Fripp's disguise was a suit and tie. Yes thought it would be a good idea to swap their leader for a Buggle. Peter Gabriel was suddenly interested in everything except prog. ELP rebranded as Love Beach, providing inspiration for One Direction 30 years later. Pink Floyd diverted their attention from composing beautiful music to manufacturing the mother of all concept albums. Rick Wakeman spotted a gap in the market for a jovial raconteur. Camel reverted to being an even-toed ungulate and cigarette brand. Deep Purple started launching heavy metal bands. Fish thought that now was the right moment to actually launch a prog career, but he was ten years too late. And Genesis turned to comedy, producing a string of spoof hits that culminated in the magnificent "I Can't Dance". This song is now considered to be the third funniest thing that's ever happened, after Phil Davison's Election Speech and Children Interrupt BBC News Interview. To go from "The Knife" and "The Musical Box" to "I Can't Dance" shows how far we can travel in one lifetime, but the direction of travel is up to us.
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A great read but I've highlighted the bit above because it's so laconic and funny 
A few additional facts to note:
The Knife was inspired by a track by the Nice called Rondo which in itself was based on a Dave Brubeck jazz track which was based on a Mozart piece of music called Blue Rondo A La Turk. A little story in itself of how music can evolve.
The early 90's Scandi prog revival largely came from something called the Swedish Art Rock Society that was formed by the keyboard player Par Lindh who was a big disciple of Keith Emerson.
Thought you would like to know!
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