Prog and Classical Music

I decided to start this thread after mulling over a recent post calling ELP "too classical."  It got me to thinking . . . isn't the use of classical forms and techniques a founding principle of the Prog genre?  Or - perhaps - is Prog more broad than that?

So here is something to ponder . . . What do you think is the role of Western art music in Prog? (And what should it be?)

Also, what genres other than "classical" should Prog draw from? Or does it need to draw from anything?

Of course, I have my own opinions on this question, but I'll hold off until I survey the lay of the land.

Edited by hegelec

I look to bands like Gentle Giant drawing on traditional polyphonic textures.  Yes drawing on sonata form for "Close to the Edge" (actually remind me, there is a fantastic essay on the web that analyses CTTE in terms of its classical significance for those with even modest theory background).  And, of course, ELP used classically-influenced forms for many of its own compositions.  I would even classify some of Peter Hammill's songs as lieder.  These are some of Prog's biggest names; so isn't symph-prog Prog's most dominant sub-genre?

Edited by hegelec

If you're defining "western art music" (a term that I hate, since there's nothing inherently more "artful" about it than any other genre of music) so broadly as any music performed on classical instruments, by players formally trained to do so, then I guess lots of prog is influenced by it.

Eetu Pellonpää wrote: I remember that I suddenly noted a similarity between Richard Wagner's "Tannhaüser" Ouverture and "The Revealing Science of God" by YES, as I listened them when I was younger! It was a nice, waking and thought provocing experinece, when you started to notice bigger forms in musical pieces, how they are arranged, and melodies done with alterations etc.

I never knew that about TRSOG, but I will look for it now!

Edited by hegelec

BTW, here is that awesome link to the Close to the Edge analysis:

http://yesworld.com/ctte_covach/Close_to_the_Edge.html

hegelec wrote: I decided to start this thread after mulling over a recent post calling ELP "too classical."  It got me to thinking . . . isn't the use of classical forms and techniques a founding principle of the Prog genre?  Or - perhaps - is Prog more broad than that? So here is something to ponder . . . What do you think is the role of Western art music in Prog? (And what should it be?) Also, what genres other than "classical" should Prog draw from? Or does it need to draw from anything? Of course, I have my own opinions on this question, but I'll hold off until I survey the lay of the land.

nice rediect ...

hmm... let me take a stab...

I think the classical forms and techniques are a foundation of prog... because more so than any characteristic even complexity which does not hold for all prog... the base characteristic of prog is a reliance on a firm structure.  With few exceptions,  aimless jams have not been a hallmark of prog. Of course prog exploded past that to include Indian, folk, Flamenco etc. influences.

It's obvious that Western Art music could and should have a huge role in prog.. they were products of their enviroment in a way..

prog shouldn't be restricted to merely classical...and it isn't... we have folk, jazz, Indian, all kinds of stuff to draw from.  They only thing prog had to do.... was expand the boundries of rock.. using whatever tools and influences the musicians could find...

    It seems to me that many of the early bands were trying to infuse rock with a classical sensibility. That was very evident on "Days of Future Passed," and even "Sgt. Pepper's." Yes, Genesis, and ELP ran with this idea. What seems to have happend was that this opened a very big door. Why just classical, why not jazz, world, folk, the sky's the limit.

The role of western art (or any art), is what the composer wants it to be. The beauty about prog is that it can draw from anything. It also doesn't have to. It calso can evoke the western tradition, but I like it when it is provoked.

Ghandi 2 wrote: I think the guy was saying that ELP merely arranges an existing song far too often, and I have to agree with him. It's kind of sad when two of the best songs on an album (Toccata and Jerusalem) are songs that the group did not even write.

One of the main reasons why i love prog is because I love classical...and i love rock. Put them together? you have PROG.