Your favourite Punk albums?

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:29

It actually reminds me a bit of the less polished Shudder To Think work.

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:31

As the majority seems to agree that punk is more than just punk, what about Nirvana by the way? If they count, they're surely among the best. (But then a whole lot of other stuff may want to get in, too.)

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:44

Lewian wrote:

As the majority seems to agree that punk is more than just punk, what about Nirvana by the way? If they count, they're surely among the best. (But then a whole lot of other stuff may want to get in, too.)

That is like saying the majority seems to agree that prog is more than just prog. I think it is more a recognition that as the years have gone on punk has evolved and broadened, and encompasses a wider variety of sounds that share a similar aesthetic or ethos as the original punk artists. So, just as some people will argue until the cows have stepped over dead horses on their way home, flogging them until they are blue in the face, that prog begins and ends with music that sounds like the symphonic prog of the ‘70s, some will as narrowly define punk.

Nirvana are readily acknowledged and recognised as punk. I’ve probably heard them described as punk more than any other label. I haven’t checked, but I bet Wiki describes their music as punk. Not that I’m using wiki as an accurate reference, but rather a popular reference. When Wiki gets facts wrong, it tends to be because it goes by popular knowledge and understanding.

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:50

nick_h_nz wrote:

Of course if I write things up like this, it's 50% about winding people up who take genre definitions too seriously in my view. Wink

Still for me there are good reasons to define punk more narrowly than prog, as the term punk used to refer to a pretty specific movement (OK this might be challenged looking at who used it before it took that shape), whereas prog as a genre label was put post hoc on a set of things that was at that point already quite heterogeneous.

Edited by Lewian - May 01 2022 at 14:51

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 14:56

I do realise by the way that we're repeating ourselves.

But anyway, if I see it correctly, Nirvana hadn't been mentioned before in this thread, which would surprise me if people agreed on them being punk, because I find it hard to imagine that nobody here appreciates them. Of course it may be just my weird taste that makes me like them, but we're talking about a band that is seen as top influential class act all over the place.

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 15:18

Lewian wrote:

I do realise by the way that we're repeating ourselves.

It could well be that no one else here likes them (as much) as you do, I love a whole lot of the bands that tend to be grouped together as “grunge” (even though they sound nothing like each other, and tend to all come from different genres, backgrounds and influences. I love Alice In Chains, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam and Screaming Trees, to name some of the other big names of that period and geographic area, as well as a lot of lesser known bands. But I have to admit, I’ve never got on with Nirvana, and like very little of their material.

And, yes, we are definitely repeating ourselves! 😄🤪

(And so, yes, I knew you were saying it mostly tongue-in-cheek. 😜)

However, as you yourself admit, the punk movement came after punk was already used to describe the music. Music had been described as punk before their was an image/fashion/movement that was associated with that music. And even once that aspect of punk took off, and had punk become more than just the music, there were still punk bands that were not associated with that image/fashion/movement. To me, to conflate the punk movement with punk music (which existed before, and long after said movement) is denying a fair portion of pubk history.

To keep to the prog analogy, it’s like saying that prog music was not just from a certain place and time, but also only really applies to those who had at least one member of the band that wore a cape on stage. Yes, I’m extracting the urine a little. But if you can, so can I! 🤪

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 15:25

Nirvana is mainly considered to be Grunge, but In Utero sounds quite punky to me, and is an album I like a lot.

Edited by David_D - May 01 2022 at 15:36

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 15:42

Grunge is a media made label, that pretty much none of the bands labelled as such, and very few of the fans of those bands, use. So I don’t really believe that Nirvana are mainly considered to be grunge. But even if they do, grunge (as definitely by the media that coined the term) is a fusion of metal and punk, which pretty much means even if people use the term grunge, they are still associating the band with punk music.

Now, obviously, all musical labels and genres are somewhat arbitrary creations imposed retrospectively. The signified has always existed before the signifier is assigned to it. But some labels and genres are more arbitrary than others, and they tend to be the ones given by the media. Krautrock is one, and Grunge is another. There is a huge difference in sound and style between various Krautrock artists, and the same with grunge. In both cases, the labels were bestowed upon music from a particular geographic area in a somewhat derogatory and pejorative manner, initially as nothing more than a joke. But that joke somehow stuck, and became a genre label.

But anyone who thinks all Krautrock bands play the same style of music, or sound similar, clearly hasn’t listened to much Krautrock. It’s more of a cross-genre grouping, than a genre in itself. (And yes, I know I am going to invite a lot of argument, but hey, no change there….)

The same can be said for grunge. It started out as a joke by the media because the bands all looked grungy. It wasn’t even about their sound, so much as their appearance, initially. But when pushed to try and make a genre out of the joke, the metal meets punk explanation somehow evolved. It’s about as accurate as stating all the “grunge” bands have something in common apart from their geography.

But within that mass of Seattle bands called grunge, Nirvana certainly stood out as being more of a punk band than a metal band, if you really had to take that punk/metal fusion thing seriously.

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 19:18

Inner City Unit. Here a few example tracks from four different albums:

Edited by BaldFriede - May 01 2022 at 19:54

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 19:28

Not sure if I've commented on this thread before (and I'm too lazy to check, lol). Anyway, here are some of my favorites:

At the Drive-In - Relationship of Command (post-hardcore)

Bad Religion - Suffer (melodic hardcore)

L7 - Bricks Are Heavy (technically grunge, but a very punk-based form of it)

Rise Against - The Sufferer and the Witness (melodic hardcore)

Off Minor - The Heat Death of the Universe (screamo, jazz punk)

Refused - The Shape of Punk to Come (post-hardcore)

Against Me! - Transgender Dysphoria Blues (punk, folk-punk)

Helmet - Strap It On (alt-metal, but with a heavy post-hardcore influence)

Big Black - Songs About f**king (post-hardcore, noise rock)

Minor Threat - Out of Step (hardcore punk)

And if we count metallic hardcore/mathcore:

The Dillinger Escape Plan - Calculating Infinity (mathcore)

Converge - All We Love We Leave Behind (metalcore, hardcore punk)

Botch - We Are the Romans (metallic hardcore, metalcore)

Earth Crisis - Destroy the Machines (hardcore punk, metalcore)

Cave In - Until Your Heart Stops (metalcore, metallic hardcore)

Every Time I Die - Hot Damn! (metalcore, hardcore punk)

Edited by Necrotica - May 01 2022 at 19:32

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Posted: May 01 2022 at 21:44

The Sebadoh song “Gimme Indie Rock!” Is a humorous take on how punk/hardcore evolved into early 90s stuff like Nirvana, Mudhoney, Pearl Jam, etc. Basically, the punks started smoking pot and playing slower songs.

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Posted: May 04 2022 at 21:00

Pennywise - Full Circle

Nofx - Punk in Drublic

Bad Religion - Suffer

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Posted: May 05 2022 at 02:47

Gameoverluke wrote:

Pennywise - Full Circle

Nofx - Punk in Drublic

Bad Religion - Suffer

fine, and my welcome to you on PA forums, Luke

quality over quantity, and all kind of PopcoRn almost beyond

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Posted: May 05 2022 at 03:14

I view UK Punk as a reaction to a social gvt (the UK were dominated by labour in the 70's - with the communists getting a sensible share of the votes), albeit understandable, because the country was politcally & economically blocked. The punks wanted opportunity (find their place in the sun), and I'm relatively certain that a lot of them voted Tory (Paul Weller of The Jam certainly admitted to it), maybe
even fascist. You got to remember that a lot of punk-followers were
middle class playing bad dudes with money to spend (on clothes, notably -
Westwood/McLaren shops) - not unemployement kids sharing the slums with
the immigrants.

What they probably didn't bargain for, is the Maggie Bitcher shock, though.
[/QUOTE]

I think that is a bit wide of the mark, Hugues. While it is true that UK punk was anti establishment, and by extension anti the government of the day, it wasn't explicitly anti Labour Party (which was more centre left than socialist). In the early days some punks wore bits of nazi regalia to shock the older generation, but when far right parties like the National Front started trying to recruit at punk gigs organisations like the Anti Nazi League and Rock Against Racism sprang up almost immediately and had massive support from punk bands and fans.
It's true that the punk bands had more diverse backgrounds than some of them liked to admit, with a good number of middle class students adopting unconvincing working class accents, but most of the key members of The Clash and The Sex Pistols really did grow up in working class London households.

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Posted: May 05 2022 at 14:50

My experience of 'Punk' was through bands like Crass, Poison Girls, Discharge, Disorder, The Mob.. and a lot of squat benefit gigs etc. It wasnt for the faint hearted and not an easy listen but i made some good friends who didnt judge me because i liked other types of music. It was the political message and the sheer anger at the injustice of the times that moved me but inevitably it became very negative and destructive and i lost a couple of friends to drugs and suicide.

Ive always loved the Damned who are the only one of the '77' UK punk bands ive got any time for. Once all the bullsh*t and hype of the Sex Pistols and Clash died down lots of excellent music came out and revitalized a moribund music scene of all forms..

Nobody's mentioned Motorhead?? Thumbs Up

And the pre-punk 75/76 London 'Pub rock' scene with bands like Ducks deluxe, Nick Lowe, Ian Drury, the Motors, Eddie and the Hotrods etc.. some super straight ahead rock n roll

Edited by Cosmiclawnmower - May 06 2022 at 00:03

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