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1980s' other Progressive Rock than Neo-Prog?
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

No, me neither. I certainly wouldn't classify ELO, Peter Gabriel or Talk Talk as Progressive Rock, but I have no objection to them being listed in ProgArchives under Crossover Prog. Smile

I would call it "I-wish-it-was Prog". LOL
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Originally posted by cstack3 cstack3 wrote:

Originally posted by verslibre verslibre wrote:

I'm a serious Wetton fan but I can't pretend Asia wasn't a big step down from U.K. Shocked

Musically I agree, but at least JW got a decent paycheck for once!!  Prog doesn't seem to be the best-paying gig in town! 

True! I bet John never had to consider Uber or Door Dash, though (not that there's anything wrong with that).
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4 stars 1988: Peter Bardens - Speed of Light
4 stars 1988: Devil Doll - The Girl Who Was Death - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2GvVwVnlpB8
4 stars 1988: Edhels - Still Dream - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20bBQ_KlzaU
5 stars 1988: The Enid - The Seed and the Sower - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8B9JIRfmK8
5 stars 1988: Halloween - Part One - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRTM0UJ4r9M
4 stars 1988: Midas - Beyond the Clean Air - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kcWTp09xl0
5 stars 1988: Pink Floyd - Delicate Sound of Thunder - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHf5IftRKPs&t=458s
4 stars 1988: Tangerine Dream - Optical Race - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WzFvZmwNlqs
4 stars 1988: Rick Wakeman & Ramon Remedios - A Suite of Gods - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoIDt_C5y1LtgiI7SPaX18D2MaLYdrXcw
5 stars 1988: Ezra Winston - Myth of the Chrysavides - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GW8Q84GX3ho
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

I guess it won't suprise you, Paul, when I say that surely not all the albums you list would get the stamp from me as 
"proper Progressive Rock", even they're approved by Wikipedia. Wink

I better correct this to that they're approved to be on Wikipedia's Timeline, as they not necessarily are considered to be Prog in Wikipedia's articles about the artists - whatever the reasons are for all this, as it's rather strange and not good for Wikipedia's reputation.
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

5 stars 1988: Halloween - Part One 

Thumbs Up

also nice to see some other non-true-dinosaur albums on your lists, Paul. Tongue


Edited by David_D - October 27 2023 at 02:58
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richardh View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:



often overlooked in his canon , he had relocated back to Greece (from the UK) and this was him trying out his new studio. Has a different feel to a lot of his albums (as exepcted) and not a bad track. Those 5 stars I heartily concur with Clap
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Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

5 stars 1988: Halloween - Part One 

Thumbs Up

also nice to see some other non-true-dinosaur albums on your lists, Paul. Tongue
Well, they're all from 1988, so they're all "non-true-dinosaur albums" from your perspective. Tongue
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David_D View Drop Down
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Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:

Well, they're all from 1988, so they're all "non-true-dinosaur albums" from your perspective. Tongue

I was talking about all your lists here, and it looks like your memory is NOT quite good anymore, so I better repeat my definition:

Originally posted by David_D David_D wrote:

My definition of "true dinosaur albums":

Albums by artists who had been active more than 10 years. Big smile

Tongue


Edited by David_D - October 27 2023 at 05:40
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OK, a few of those might not be "prog", and you will see the dramatic decline throughout the decade.



12           Art Zoyd     Generation Sans Futur       Fra          1980     

12           Circus     Tearless, Fearless and Even Less      Swz        1980     

12           Eskaton     4 Visions Fra          1980      Zeuhl

12           Harmonium         En Tournee           Can         1980     

12           Marino, Frank & Mahogany Rush        What's Next         Can         1980     

11           Abus Dangereux     Le Quatrieme Mouvement Fra          1980     

11           Art Zoyd     Symphonie Pour Le Jour Ou Bruleront Les Cités   Fra          1980              

11           Asia Minor           Between Flesh and Divine Fra          1980     

11           Beausoleil, Bobby               Lucifer Rising       USA        1980     

11           Black Sabbath      Heaven and Hell  Eng         1980        

11           Emeraude             Geoffroy               Fra          1980     

11           Enbor     Katebegiak           Bsq         1980     

11           Ginga Rale Band  Wir Bedauern...    Ost         1980     

11           Iron Maiden    Iron Maiden         Eng         1980     

11           Khan, Steve          Evidence               USA        1980     

11           Maneige     Montreal 6AM     Can         1980     

11           Present     Triskaidekaphobie              Bel          1980     

11           Riley, Terry           Shri Camel            USA        1980     

11           Santana, Devadip Carlos    The Swing of Delight          USA        1980     

11           Slick, Grace           Dreams  USA        1980     

11           Syncope      Syncope Can         1980     

11           Talking Heads      Remain In Light    USA        1980     

12           Dün        Eros        Fra          1981     

12           Itoiz        Alkolea  Bsq         1981     

11           However               Sudden Dusk        USA        1981      

11           Jaivas, Los             Alturas de Machu Picchu   Chl          1981     

11           King Crimson       Discipline              Eng         1981     

11           Present  Triskaidekaphobie              Bel          1981     

11           Univers Zero        Ceux Du Dehors   Bel          1981     

12           Dire Straits           Love Over Gold    Eng         1982     

11           Art Zoyd      Phase IV Fra          1982     

11           Debile Menthol   Emile au Jardin Patrologique           Swz        1982     

11           Hubbs, Stan         Crystal   USA        1982     

11           Khan, Steve          Blades (aka Modern Times)              USA        1982     

11           Plastic People of the Universe         Kolejnice Duni  (1977-1982)   Cze         1982              

11           Theil, Bob             So Far...  Sco         1982     

12           Bacamarte            Depois Do Fim     Bra         1983    

12           Marillion              Script For a Jester's Tear    Eng         1983     

12           Violent Femmes       Violent Femmes  USA        1983     

11           Eskaton     Fiction   Fra          1983   

11           Khan, Steve          Eyewitness           USA        1983     

11           Pink Floyd            The Final Cut        Eng         1983     

11           Talking Heads      Speaking In Tongues          USA        1983     

13           Univers Zero        UZED      Bel          1984     

12           Art Zoyd       Le Mariage du Ciel et l'Enfer            Fra          1984     

12           Jaivas, Los             Obras De Violeta Parra      Chl          1984     

12           Talking Heads      Stop Making Sense             USA        1984     

12           Supertramp         Brother Where You Bound Eng         1985     

11           Cult, The               Love       Eng         1985     

11           Harper, Roy          Jugula    Eng         1985     

11           Hellebore             Il y a des Jours      Fra          1985       

11           Present  Le Poison Qui Rend Fou     Bel          1985     

11           News From Babel      Letters Home       Eng         1986       

11           Tangerine Dream       Green Desert (1973/1986) Ger         1986     

11           5uu's with Motor Totemist Guild    Elements              USA        1988      

11           Talk Talk Spirit of Eden       Eng         1988     

12           Tangle Edge          In Search of A New Dawn  Nor         1989     

12           Lenny Kravitz      Let Love Rule USA     1989

11           Cooper, Lindsay   Oh, Moscow        Eng         1989     

11           Eat          Sell Me a God      Eng         1989     

11           Noir Désir             Veuillez Rendre l'âme (à Qui Elle Appartient)              Fra          1989     

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^
11           Asia Minor           Between Flesh and Divine   Fra        1980     
11           Jaivas, Los           Alturas de Machu Picchu   Chl          1981     
12           Bacamarte           Depois Do Fim     Bra                      1983    
Nice to see these ones listed again.
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

OK, a few of those might not be "prog", and you will see the dramatic decline throughout the decade.

     


There was NO decline throughout the decade, just a change in tastes and styles.

While symphonic prog and classic 70s styles were diminishing, other styles of prog were either thriving (such as neo-prog, zeuhl and avant-prog) or just being born (progressive metal and various ethnic hybrids from nations playing catch up).

And we certainly can't leave out the unique mix of prog and punk most developed by the Cardiacs.

For those stuck in the 70s paradigm it was indeed a decline but for those who could embrace completely new ways of approaching progressive music, the 80s were the second wave.

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Here's the so-called decline of the 80s ending in 1989.

Was it prog's finest moment as far as popularity or volume?

Of course not but prog was hardly the dead dog it's made out to be.

These artists were responsible for the massive prog revival in the 90s and beyond.


Prog rock top albums:


Prog metal top albums:

https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy
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Originally posted by richardh richardh wrote:

Originally posted by Psychedelic Paul Psychedelic Paul wrote:



often overlooked in his canon , he had relocated back to Greece (from the UK) and this was him trying out his new studio. Has a different feel to a lot of his albums (as exepcted) and not a bad track. Those 5 stars I heartily concur with Clap

Direct is one of his best albums, IMO! I've loved it since '88! Clap
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Here's the so-called decline of the 80s ending in 1989.

Was it prog's finest moment as far as popularity or volume?

Of course not but prog was hardly the dead dog it's made out to be.

These artists were responsible for the massive prog revival in the 90s and beyond.


Prog rock top albums:


Prog metal top albums:


Apart from the notable exception of Dream Theater I don't see that at all from those lists. Echolyn and Spock's Beard from USA and Anglagard, Par Lindh Project, Anekdoten and The Flower Kings from Sweden had a lot to do with it and they don't relate to those bands particularly. The nearest thing to a movement was when Par Lindh formed the 'Swedish Art Rock Society' with friends in 91 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A4r_Lindh#endnote_PLP) with the intention to revive the traditional symphonic rock style. 
Unlike the seventies when a few notable bands made prog what it was (ie ''The Big Six'' plus a few other important influential bands) , the 90's was a more general move back to bands that could write their own songs and perform live as opposed to the over produced tripe that littered the 80's. I would even give Guns N Roses a certain amount of credit for the prog revival because they were 'real' not some manufactured corporate rock entity. Partly also the nostalgia for the classic old bands had seen many of them return and were touring regularly. There were a lot of dynamics in play. 
Of course we have the ever popular 'what is prog anyway?' argument. If you are trying to pull a strand through from the seventies then its hard to hear that in many art rock bands who just want to be themselves. Do they set goals or just make the best music they can. It's just about attitude at the end of the day but also taking power back which is so important. The likes of Steven Wilson and Marillion have very much learnt to do that and so they can be what they need to be. Perhaps they learnt that from others or they are just bloody minded and determined enough to do it.
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During most of the 1980s, I lived, worked and performed in Tulsa, Oklahoma USA, which is normally not known for its love of anything progressive! 

However, I did see a number of amazing prog concerts, including;
  • The Moody Blues (with Patrick Moraz)
  • Pat Metheny 
  • Al Dimeola 
  • Adrian Belew (with a 3 piece band) 
  • Michael Hedges 
  • Chick Corea's Elektric Band with blazing guitarist Frank Gambale and amazing John Patitucci on bass!
  • Todd Rundgren's Acapella project 
Groups that came through that I missed include Bob Fripp & his Crafty Guitarists (I saw them in Chicago) and others.  

Tulsa was quite a happening place for music back then!  As a gigging bassist, I was constantly involved in various projects with performance artists, bands and solo acts.  

Non-prog concerts I enjoyed seeing included Alice Cooper, Aerosmith and Cheap Trick!  It was a fun place back then, but I think it has changed & not for the better.  
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4 stars 1989: Devil Doll - The Girl Who Was... Death - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYdcApobjTY&t=497s
4 stars 1989: Dream Theater - When Dream and Day Unite - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_li0d7h1v8158uiQviXYaU0s-YVGLUiFr8
4 stars 1989: Peter Gabriel - Passion (soundtrack) - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdktF-lL0yEYfGmIinkpf7Ivicuuu69PS
4 stars 1989: Isidurs Bane - Cheval: Volonte de Rocher - http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=OLAK5uy_lJBD2unN_8WGxFyGl6QSZD-ZcC-QrTjN8
4 stars 1989: Anthony Phillips - Missing Links 1: Finger Painting - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLdktF-lL0yEY3Cy0_03m9cYuD2CfQjsQ0
4 stars 1989: Rick Wakeman - Black Knights at the Court of Ferdinand IV - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLoIDt_C5y1LsZy3vThTRSMU3cCcQLa1np
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

OK, a few of those might not be "prog", and you will see the dramatic decline throughout the decade.

There was NO decline throughout the decade, just a change in tastes and styles.

It depends of course on which definition of Progressive Rock is used. If RYM's, their statistics say, 360 releases in 1980 vs 220 releases in 1989.
( https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/progressive-rock/ )


Edited by David_D - October 28 2023 at 02:41
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Originally posted by siLLy puPPy siLLy puPPy wrote:

Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

OK, a few of those might not be "prog", and you will see the dramatic decline throughout the decade.

     


There was NO decline throughout the decade, just a change in tastes and styles.

While symphonic prog and classic 70s styles were diminishing, other styles of prog were either thriving (such as neo-prog, zeuhl and avant-prog) or just being born (progressive metal and various ethnic hybrids from nations playing catch up).

And we certainly can't leave out the unique mix of prog and punk most developed by the Cardiacs.

For those stuck in the 70s paradigm it was indeed a decline but for those who could embrace completely new ways of approaching progressive music, the 80s were the second wave.



Mmmhhh!!!!... It's more a question of propositions or offers from bands/artistes than a change of taste of the crowds.

Yeah, RIO & Zeuhl (70's styles/genre) lasted roughly until 85 before also crumbling/sinking (in terms of number of releases) into the second half of that decade.

AFAIK (not an expert), neo-prog thrived until Fish left Marillion (87?) and until Brave (93?), they were nearly a spent force; and IQ wasn't doing any better during those years, either ... and it's not poppy-prog It Bites that will change things.
The years 86 to 91 are truly dreadful (not just for prog, FTM), and not just IMHO.Geek

Progmetal was just metal music back then. The 80's PM into PA is mostly rewriting history and/or PA revisionism.


I know there is a "conspiracy" TongueLOL on PA to rehabilitate the 80's as a normal (good) decade, by seeing the amount of 80's polls series in the last two years of the forum, but the 80's still sucked because of its second half. Of course, the weak start (81 to 85) didn't help either.


.
let's just stay above the moral melee
prefer the sink to the gutter
keep our sand-castle virtues
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as well as a thinker,
prefer lifting our pen
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Originally posted by Sean Trane Sean Trane wrote:

Progmetal was just metal music back then. 

However to characterize it, there was not so much of it according to RYM's informations: 33 releases in 1988 and 66 in 1989.
( https://rateyourmusic.com/genre/progressive-metal/ )
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There was plenty of good music around in the late-1980's. We just didn't know where to find it without the Internet. Smile

For instance, out of that 1989 albums list above, the only three albums I knew of before joining ProgArchives were by Kate Bush, Tears for Fears & Vangelis. Embarrassed


Edited by Psychedelic Paul - October 28 2023 at 08:19
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