"Fall" of the great prog-metal bands?

aapatsos: t'was a failed pun, my mind was absent while writing it, thus i wrote it replacing the "V" in "View" with a "W". The way t'was done was first through shortening point of view to POW(D'oh) and then writing the pronounciation of those letters P=Pee, O=Oh and in modern slang W=Dubbya.

Rashikal wrote: only prog metal band here with throat thrashing.... and maybe you should actually listen to bands instead of searing them on metal archives, just a thought.

 Did I not say that I had heard Dillinger a long time ago, and had mostly forgotten what they sounded like except for the inherent CORE element? That's why I looked them up...I wanted to refresh my memory. That's all. I also insinuated that Metal Archives does not have the final say on what is and is not metal, eluding to the fact that I do disagree with them and...yes, I do listen to bands!

If you actually LISTENED to metal you would know that "throat thrashing" (your term for death growls) does not equate to thrash metal...at all.

No hard feelings, mate, but I couldn't let that go.

I agree with you. And "Train..." ceartenly was heavy enough.

Zweck wrote: aapatsos wrote: Zweck wrote: aapatsos wrote: MikeEnRegalia wrote: ^ how can anyone think that Lateralus is not the best Tool album ... especially from a prog point of view?  ........especially from ANY POINT OF VIEW........ Oh no you don't! The prog pee oh dubbya is naturally to be segregated from all others! I didn't mean ANYONE'S POINT OF VIEW, I meant ANY POINT OF VIEW, not only prog... Kid1: Yeah, they're great. Kid2: Man, are you being sarcastic? Kid1: I don't even know anymore. I however do, it was a sarcastic comment aimed at mister "Especially from a prog point of view", as I wasn't aware that such a thing even existed.

Sorry man but I misunderstood the meaning of your sentence: The prog pee oh dubbya is naturally to be segregated from all others!

the prog pee oh dubbya???

nothing bad with metalcore

but its not my description for "actual metal"

Rashikal wrote: demons and wizards is good

I would prefer Blind Guardian and Iced Earth (the bands the members come from)

but they are also ok

only prog metal band here with throat thrashing....

and maybe you should actually listen to bands instead of searing them on metal archives, just a thought.

From what I understand, Job For A Cowboy is metalcore. That's not very progressive.
Mastodon I wouldn't consider progressive, either. They're just kinda odd (and good). Also metalcore influenced.
The Red Chord always had metalcore influence, especially on the last album. I wouldn't call them prog, either...more technical, really.
Dillinger Escape Plan I haven't heard in a looong time, so I don't really know. They're not on Metal Archives, but that doesn't mean anything since a lot of metal bands aren't. I do remember a core influence in them, though...I could be wrong, so forgive me if I am!
And it's generally accepted that Fantomas are avant-garde, though I could understand calling them progressive.

Dude, it kind of sounds like you listen to a bunch of metalcore bands that are arguably not progressive.
And you're calling Opeth...thrashy?
I'm not trying to sound like an arse, but...maybe...YOU'RE the one that needs to learn about actual metal.

This topic is like a dead-end journey. First, the "great" prog-metal bands
are great beacuse they had found a niche to play what they felt to be
played at a certain period of time... in this case, there were the end of the
80's, we are talking about almost 20 years ago, so, we must figure out
that music has changed a lot and of course the youngsters of that time
now are grown-up guys with a very different approach and sensibility to
music (myself included). Then, no band is eternal, absolutely no player is
god, and no man is an island, we must improve ourselves and of course,
evolute into something better or something greater, honestly i love this
bands and a 100 more, however, of the original 3 bands mentioned and
some others stated as "major-major-influences" had their space and
time. There are a very few examples of musicians having a "phoenix-
rebirth" situation, for example King Crimson, but they or HE (Robert Fripp
i mean) never quit playing, they just had the time to experiment...
anyway, if you might want to compare what has happened, just take a
look to the past: GENESIS evolute, but not necessarily into something that
we might like, MARILLION got a lot more pop and famous, YES became
the shadow of themselves, trying to please their former audiences, ELP a
nice comeback with a lousy album, etc., etc.,... Instead of trying to find
the "black thread" of something is already shaped, we must focus our
mind to find new horizons, searching and opening our ears to new
proposals, there is a whole world of fusion, jazz, metal, pop, prog, art-
rock blah, blah blah to complain about some bands that in the end they
are so famous by now that fan-bases doesn't care if the record is
"marvellous" or just "plain-good"... but my opinion about the topic in here
is this:

--I consider that Dream Theater lost the writing and focus approach
when Kevin Moore left the band like 12 years ago, i believe that his ideas
served as the final glue to have a very cohesive and solid song, things like
Derek Sherinian and Jordan Rudess lacks of it, is not how fast you can
play, but how deep into the heart goes to move you and make it yours--

--Fates warning has been always a one man-one head band, to date, only
Jim Matheos is the original member, and as far as i know, in some point
of his carreer he "left" the band to produce some great acoustical records,
so, he of course is close to be a genius but the music itself is quite
repetitive and very dated--

--Queensryche is like a very bright light that shone very brief, and that
shine is over; they had the chance to produce and perfom great albums,
but they coudln't face and stand the "grunge" beakthrough near '94, and
what is for me their most solid record: PROMISE LAND, fade into oblivion
and the desperation of the members was so obvious that former guitarrist
Chri DeGarmo left to pusue a solo carreer--

peace

Rashikal wrote: i think you guys need to learn about actual metal before you start praising DT as gods... half the riffs are stolen

Actual metal sucks. To me, the original metal music is boring and quite frankly I can't stand the overall tone of it. I don't think their riffs are stolen, they sure do show heavy influence at times, sure, but they blow the crap out of every band that they may sound like, both in skill and in composition.

Edited by Moatilliatta