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Negoba View Drop Down
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Direct Link To This Post Topic: Sufjan Stevens
    Posted: September 27 2010 at 21:47
He's probably been suggested before but that ole' search function says no...

Prog Folk or Crossover or Eclectic....

But Illinoise is very prog.


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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2010 at 06:58
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

He's probably been suggested before but that ole' search function says no...

Prog Folk or Crossover or Eclectic....

But Illinoise is very prog.


 
That 'ole search function reveals at least 4 previous threads with "Sufjan" in the title.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2010 at 07:06
^ 7 for me Tongue
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2010 at 07:14
Well apparently the Prog Folk team has already rejected him in this previous suggestion thread.

The sample provided is very nice, but I'm not sure if it's more than a very long indie-rock track.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2010 at 08:00
A: I just went up and clicked "Search" typed in Sufjan and got only this thread. What am I doing wrong?
 
B: No one seems to have actually evaluated him back in 2007. Listen to the song I included, and tell me how that isn't prog. Odd time signature, idiosyncratic instrumentation, composed interweaving parts, concept albums, intelligent lyrics...the closest thing I have to this is Battles which is definitely prog.
 
C: I admit prog folk may not be the right place, perhaps Eclectic?
 
 
 
ed. I figured out A: the time constraint automatically enters at 6 months. So I got all 7 or so threads now. Still, the best excuse for his exclusion was that he was indie, which someone correctly said is no longer a meaningful label.


Edited by Negoba - September 28 2010 at 08:14
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2010 at 08:21
^ two no votes (out of three possible) from the prog folk team members was a proper evaluation. They also suggested Prog Related.

I've heard plenty of artsy indie-rock lately, and sometimes it is really hard to draw the line between it and progressive rock. Very slippery territory. I'll check out the full album, sounds promising.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 28 2010 at 08:28
I think the orchestration and odd time signatures are the big thing that separates him. That may not be enough and if that choice is made, that's fine, but it would be nice to hear the prog elements addressed.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2010 at 08:00
I heard Illinoise, good stuff. It was what I expected: very artsy indie rock with rich arrangements and instrumental intricacies. They DO stand a chance for PA, so I think they should be given a formal evaluation by the team of the genre where I think they might fit in: Crossover. I'll ask. 
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 01:57
Sufjan and Bonnie "Prince" Billy.....though they may never be added, I'd like to recommend both for those fans of airy, folksy music with, at time, absolutely gorgeous lyrics.
I like to feel the suspense when you're certain you know I am there.....
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 05:01
I've been wanting to suggest this guy for a while now, but I've been lazy. I think it's crazy that he's not here somewhere. He might have an indie sound, whatever that is, but his approach to music is definitely reminiscent of the classic prog bands. I think crossover would be the best fit.

I listen to a lot of indie rock/pop, and Sufjan really stands out as far as prog tendencies go - many odd time signatures/changes, unusual instrumentation, rich harmonies, and a level of ambition (re: pretentiousness) usually only found in prog bands. Here's a couple more samples:




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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 05:17
Sufjan is great, definitely fits crossover IMO. From his discog I recommend checking out either Enjoy Your Rabbit or A Sun Came as far as progginess goes.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 05:44
I've seen his name bandied around a fair bit but never gotten round to checking his stuff out... I've just been reading a review of his latest offering which is released in a couple of weeks. The descriptions make it sound pretty experimental, and it has a 25-minute closer. Looks like prog, smells like prog... I'll get back to you on what it sounds like. Wink
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 11:49
He is being evaluated in crossover at the moment.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 11:50
Thanks guys. "Illinoise" is the album to check out first.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 15:46
Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

A: I just went up and clicked "Search" typed in Sufjan and got only this thread. What am I doing wrong?
 
B: No one seems to have actually evaluated him back in 2007. Listen to the song I included, and tell me how that isn't prog. Odd time signature, idiosyncratic instrumentation, composed interweaving parts, concept albums, intelligent lyrics...the closest thing I have to this is Battles which is definitely prog.
 
C: I admit prog folk may not be the right place, perhaps Eclectic?
 
 
 
ed. I figured out A: the time constraint automatically enters at 6 months. So I got all 7 or so threads now. Still, the best excuse for his exclusion was that he was indie, which someone correctly said is no longer a meaningful label.

(I originally wanted to post this 10 hours ago, but I didn't notice that error occurred so I hit back and am posting it again, OK ?)

Hey Jay, few things:

A)Common mistake done by people not so familiar with how forum works. No offense meant in this, I till two months ago didn't know that I can search within threads, not just on wide-scale forum.

So let me explain. Here's the result I'm have:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_results_posts.asp?SearchID=20101001053234&KW=Sufjan

The point is that you have to change Last 6 months to Any Date in "Find Posts"


B)Are you aware that we'll give him most probably evaluation based on tracks on his myspace ? So far, he has one NO vote by Chris S. Other team members, including me, still haven't placed the vote.

I can tell for myself, I'll listen Illinois album, OK ?



EDIT:

Listened Illinois. YES for Crossover Smile Great music, so different from samples on myspace.

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 15:51
Myspace should NOT be used for any artist that has studio disks. Myspace is already an past its prime promotion method for even unsigned artists. Players that are posted on myspace usually are filled with greatest hits or most poppy or most current. It would be like evaluating Genesis and their myspace brought up "We Can't Dance" and "Illegal Alien."
 
 
I finally figured out how to use the search function a little more intelligently.
 
 
Ed. Your listen to the album proved my point. Please have Chris S listen to the album if you can.
 
 
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 16:23

^ Jay, let me make a sound <sigh>, but it's not sigh like in (oh he whines again), but like in sigh (yes I understand you, yet the reality is different than our opinion is).

Myspace is filled with poppy sounds, because they're the ones that will attract them most listeners. Only die hard Prog bands actually put Prog there (I remember Hours of Shipwreck, recent evaluation). But we can't have albums of all bands that we're evaluating. 


I'm glad that I could help you with this search. Noteworthy fact is that Dean was the one who told me how to use topic search. I was here for year and half, thought that I already know everything about how forum works, but nah, there are still mysterious parts :-)



Re: Illinois - I was very, very surprised how different it sounded. If I understand it correctly, he has quite big discography, doesn't he ? Or is majority of his work in EP format ? I saw about 15 of his albums, but I'm not sure if they're studio ones (most of them).

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







Even my
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 16:41
He's tried alot of different ideas over the years. He has a Christmas album, some lo-fi stuff, some all acoustic, but of course in my opinion he's at his best with orchestration and odd time signature, and Illinoise is his major work at this point.
 
I know you can't get a CD on every artist...glad you checked this one out. Hope Chris S gets a chance as well.
You are quite a fine person, and I am very fond of you. But you are only quite a little fellow, in a wide world, after all.
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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 16:54

Haha, a lot of bands fall for Christmas albums. I don't like them at all, but why not, some people like it (otherwise, there wouldn't be X-mas albums made).

I'm taking this quite personally. I can, I have quite a lot of time now, I've did some research, like the music, consider it Prog, would like to see him here as well. But sadly, this isn't case with ALL of our evaluations. A lot of teams depends on myspace samples only, including us (sometimes to often). 

There's a point where "avant-garde" and "experimental" becomes "terrible" and "pointless,"

   -Andyman1125 on Lulu







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Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 01 2010 at 16:56
Originally posted by Marty McFly Marty McFly wrote:

Originally posted by Negoba Negoba wrote:

A: I just went up and clicked "Search" typed in Sufjan and got only this thread. What am I doing wrong?
 
B: No one seems to have actually evaluated him back in 2007. Listen to the song I included, and tell me how that isn't prog. Odd time signature, idiosyncratic instrumentation, composed interweaving parts, concept albums, intelligent lyrics...the closest thing I have to this is Battles which is definitely prog.
 
C: I admit prog folk may not be the right place, perhaps Eclectic?
 
 
 
ed. I figured out A: the time constraint automatically enters at 6 months. So I got all 7 or so threads now. Still, the best excuse for his exclusion was that he was indie, which someone correctly said is no longer a meaningful label.

(I originally wanted to post this 10 hours ago, but I didn't notice that error occurred so I hit back and am posting it again, OK ?)

Hey Jay, few things:

A)Common mistake done by people not so familiar with how forum works. No offense meant in this, I till two months ago didn't know that I can search within threads, not just on wide-scale forum.

So let me explain. Here's the result I'm have:

http://www.progarchives.com/forum/search_results_posts.asp?SearchID=20101001053234&KW=Sufjan

The point is that you have to change Last 6 months to Any Date in "Find Posts"


B)Are you aware that we'll give him most probably evaluation based on tracks on his myspace ? So far, he has one NO vote by Chris S. Other team members, including me, still haven't placed the vote.

I can tell for myself, I'll listen Illinois album, OK ?



EDIT:

Listened Illinois. YES for Crossover Smile Great music, so different from samples on myspace.

 
 
 
Marty, you are wrong regarding myspace being the main area of evaluations for crossover. One of the criteria in assisting crossover is myspace! There are many other factors that assist, namely:
Personal knowledge and history of artist
allmusic.com
RYM
artist web site
artist zips.
evaluators own music collections - Yes some of us do have albums outside the prog arena
 
Sufjan Stevens fits that mould IMHO.Stern Smile
<font color=Brown>Music - The Sound Librarian

...As I venture through the slipstream, between the viaducts in your dreams...[/COLOR]
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