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Does anybody feel the same?

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Forum Description: General progressive music discussions
URL: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=123873
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Topic: Does anybody feel the same?
Posted By: Hrychu
Subject: Does anybody feel the same?
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 05:11
I recently started REALLY REALLY hating music, particularly prog, from the 1970s and that's only because it's from the 70s. Whenever I listen to 70s music, I tend to get really MAD that what I'm listening to's something that was recorded (no computers, tape etc) during a period which I've never experienced and I only know of from what others have told me or pictures/music/movies/books. The feeling of listening to something that's lost and never gonna return makes me upset.

Also, the 70s drum sound drives me crazy. It's so unobtainable and easy to identify. And it's terrifying that nobody, never ever, recreated this drum sound in the 90s and later.

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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong



Replies:
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 05:12
to answer your question - NO


Posted By: Homotopy
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 05:21
For me, that 70's prog is the music of the times long gone is actually appealing. Feel some sweet nostalgia, even though I was not born at the time.


Posted By: Boboulo
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 05:28
Not only progressive music, but popular music in general, was on its peak in the 60's and the 70's. No bad feelings about that.


Posted By: Grumpyprogfan
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 05:40
Don't hate 70's music. I listen to it less than music made in the last 20 years.

Originally posted by Hrychu Hrychu wrote:



Also, the 70s drum sound drives me crazy. It's so unobtainable and easy to identify. And it's terrifying that nobody, never ever, recreated this drum sound in the 90s and later.
That would be the difference in recording to tape (analog) compared to a hard drive (digital).


Posted By: Meltdowner
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 05:52
You hate it because you love it? Confused I'd get really upset if everything from the 70's suddenly disappeared but it's not the case. When I listen to 70's music I feel transported to that era, even though I never lived it, especially if I play an original LP.

There are a few recent bands that tried to recreate the 70's sound in recent years with vintage gear, analog tape, etc. Lizards Exist and Hooffoot come to mind.


Posted By: Mormegil
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:09
No - I grew up with it (thank you car radio).

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Welcome to the middle of the film.


Posted By: Neu!mann
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:19
Very funny original post...well done, Hrychu

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"we can change the world without anyone noticing the difference" - Franco Falsini


Posted By: chopper
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 06:37
To be honest, no. 70s drum sounds are good, later drums sounds may be less good (ABWH for instance) and I'm not a fan of some modern recordings that have what I call a "clicky" bass drum sound that is too loud, but I've never hated 70s prog for that reason.
There are some recordings that have a slightly odd sound (can't really describe it) but they seem lacking in feel and atmosphere and sound like everyone recorded their parts separately (which they did). Some Glass Hammer and IZZ recordings spring to mind here, although I still like them.


Posted By: Deadwing
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 07:01
I love 70's aesthetics.
The drum sound, the guitars, especially the licks and solos, which are easily identified from the decade. Also, keyboards and synthetizers, they still sound great today.


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 07:07
Hi,

It's weird to me that someone would hate music from a time and place that is no more ... so you might as well hate Haendel, Mozart, Beethoven, Stravinsky and everything else that is beyond your timeline of music enjoyment, which in my book, is merely showing that you might consider evaluating "music" in your ears, so that something like that does not happen again.

Essentially, every period in the history of the arts, has ALWAYS brought out something original and different, and apparently this is not good for you ... it's strange that you mention the "drum sound" and I just watched ELP on a concert from 1970, and no a single drummer in the past 25/30 years can reproduce anything that good that Carl Palmer came up with ... it was not about the "click" and it certainly was not about that stupid and cheap snare drum that beginners love to hit, because they do not know how to count time, and the folks they are playing with have to have a "point of return" so they know where they are ... it takes guts and talent to do what Carl did in many of those shows, and "talent" is not defined as ... just do your 4/4, or 3/4, or BS/4 ... but keep hitting that snare so the bass player and the guitar know what they are doing and when!

There was a freedom in the early 70's that is not clear anymore, and only a handful of artists do work that is "beyond" the timing and the measures in music ... the next time you look at Beethoven, or Stravinsky, try to find the "clue" that this is the 4th beat ... which tells you that the current drummer these days, is nothing but a mechanical metronome, that couldn't drum his way out of a hole in the ground ... it would sound the same, see?

There is nothing wrong with the 70's any more than there is what is in any other generation of music ... but it is really sad when we see stuff like this, which has a tendency to suggest that the music appreciation is not quite on your side ... hopefully your school has a "music appreciation" course that gives you 500 years of music ... you might find that a lot of stuff that you hear these days, that people love to "fan'size" ... is really just really poor music that has a value in the annals of music history of ... let's say -50 and below!


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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com


Posted By: Jaketejas
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 07:17
I think it cuts both ways. It is sad that there are fewer bands who can actually get together with a lot of people and do things the old fashioned way. I agree that the sound achieved in the 1970s (and even before that) is more organic and it really gives a beautiful distinct sound.

On the other hand, new technology has allowed bands - and especially those with fewer people - to achieve a sound that is very close to what they desire. It has in some cases allowed an improvement in certain sounds due to the accessibility of "model sounds" extremely difficult to obtain by other means. Without this new tech, these bands would never see the light of day. Some have been waiting eons to be heard.

I hate it when people answer "yes and no". A long long time ago, I had a boss who did this, but that person (who will remain nameless) was speaking out of both sides of their mouth, and it was like trying to pin jello to the wall.

It isn't a case of "yes and no". There are major obstacles in trying to reproduce the beauty of real, organic, acoustic sounds when having to supplement real instruments with electronics. Sometimes, you can get by with it and sometimes it falls flat. I also enjoy good electronic productions, because they have a futuristic vibe that I dig. So, before I get bashed by the amazing electronic folks, I add the disclaimer that it also depends very much on genre.


Posted By: Manuel
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 08:18
Sorry to hear you feel this way. I always enjoy listening to 70’s prog, 80’s prog, 90’s prog, etc. To me, music is music, no matter what time it was written, performed, recorded, etc. If I like it, I have no problem with it.


Posted By: rushaholic
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 08:35
not at all.  70s i feel was the golden era of rock.  absolutely love it.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 08:38
I can relate to part of what you are saying and that is the part about not experiencing it at the time. I was a teen in the 80's and that is when I first got into prog so I missed it in the 70's. Other than my dad having a copy of the Yes album(which is not really even that big of a factor for me discovering or getting into prog although it is something I suppose)I have no recollection of anything prog or prog related in the 70's(unless you count the Beatles who were the only band I liked as a kid). So not having experienced it at the time has at times bothered me but for the most part it hasn't really ruined my enjoyment of the music.

As for the drum sound that never really bothered me either. The only drum sound that bothers me is the stuff from the eighties. I kind of blame Phil Collins for that in a way. He was a pioneer of that gated reverb sound which led producers in the eighties to try to get a punchier drum sound and people just sort of ran away with it ruining the production of a lot of 80's music. That said I like the sound he initially got and think it worked(PG 3 for example)but I don't like what it led to. I think  these days most drum sounds sound ok though.




Posted By: Psychedelic Paul
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 08:39
I think it's fair to say you're in a minority of one here. I absolutely Heart classic 1970's prog. Thumbs Up


Posted By: I prophesy disaster
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 09:00

I got into music during the '70s, but it wasn't Progressive Rock... it was Hard Rock / Heavy Metal. I didn't actually get into Progressive Rock until the late '70s, years after the albums were released. So I don't really have the same nostalgic feelings about classic Progressive Rock as others here. My nostalgia about music during the '70s and beyond is more about the music I listened to personally, irrespective of when the music was released.

 



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No, I know how to behave in the restaurant now, I don't tear at the meat with my hands. If I've become a man of the world somehow, that's not necessarily to say I'm a worldly man.


Posted By: friso
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 12:51
Haha I know the feeling! Used to feel like that when I was eighteen years old. One day I spoke to a guitar teacher who said 'that back then they were happy to know some-one with the Lp so they could record it on a tape'. I already owned 100 vinyls by that time and I knew this was perhaps the best time to get into prog.

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I'm guitarist and songwriter for the prog-related band Mother Bass. Find us at http://www.motherbass.com. I also enter stages throughout the Netherlands performing my poetry.


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 13:24
^Yeah, now it would be "hey can you add me to your spotify account." Tongue 


Posted By: BrufordFreak
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 14:10
OP: I agree with your comment on the drum sound of the recordings from the 70s (pre-gated drums). I LOVE that sound and HATE the sound of gated drums, which is why I HEAVILY and LOUDLY applaud when bands discard the gated/compressed drums that have prevailed since Gabe & Collins issued the "Melt" album. There are a few. I wish I could name the bands/albums off the top of my head, but I can't, but I'll do some research and get back to you.  

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Drew Fisher
https://progisaliveandwell.blogspot.com/


Posted By: Atavachron
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 14:17
"A thing isn't beautiful because it lasts". 


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"Too often we enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought."   -- John F. Kennedy


Posted By: MortSahlFan
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 15:50
I can't seem to listen to music made AFTER the 70s.... A lot of sh*tty production, sh*tty songs, etc.

I feel the same about movies.


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https://www.youtube.com/c/LoyalOpposition

https://www.scribd.com/document/382737647/MortSahlFan-Song-List


Posted By: The Dark Elf
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 16:01
No. Just no.

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...a vigorous circular motion hitherto unknown to the people of this area, but destined
to take the place of the mud shark in your mythology...


Posted By: Catcher10
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 18:03
I'm not sure I totally understand your rant but the 70's sound is well, REAL. Bands recording in the studio live, the whole room mic'd up and knowing what you are hearing is what they deemed perfect after so many takes and retakes. You are truly hearing what the artist wanted you to hear......Today the computer decides what you are hearing.
As far as drum sounds, I can understand. For example on JTull both TAAB and Aqualung the bass and bass guitar parts are thin sounding, especially on my original LP versions. Both of the remixed versions by Steven Wilson he and Ian Anderson bumped the bass some and it has a much more appealing bottom end. I also find this to be the case with 50-60s jazz records.....Part of the reason is the analog playback equipment back then was not able to handle the low end and the stylus could/would jump out of the groove if the engineer was not careful, Don Was (President of BlueNote Records) discussed this regarding how Rudy Van Gelder mastered all those brilliant jazz recordings knowing this would happen. 
Today with much better analog playback gear that is not the case anymore, I can compare many originals with recent re-issues that contain a much beefier low end and the sound is simply glorious off my turntable.


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Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 18:25
By the way, that seventies drum sound wasn't recreated in the 80's either. ;)


Posted By: Dellinger
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 19:25
But 70's music is not lost, you can hear it whenever you want to. There's enough 70's music that you could keep on finding new music for a very long time as if they were being released now. As long as you enjoy it, just keep on doing so, and keep on looking for new 70's music to enjoy.


Posted By: Spacegod87
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 19:36
Uhh, sorry to say that I don't feel the same. I only get a warm, happy feeling listening to 70s prog.

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Levitating downwards,
atomic feedback scream.


Posted By: SquonkHunter
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 20:46
Oh hell no! I was in High School in the early '70s and Progressive Rock ("Prog" was not used until much later) was my music. I listened to other things back then but Progressive Rock was my staple.


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"You never had the things you thought you should have had and you'll not get them now..."


Posted By: siLLy puPPy
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 21:28
Hate will leave you to the Dark Side it will, Dark Side of the Moon, yes.
Na, love 70s music. Love all eras. Probably prefer 70s above all others as a whole.


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https://rateyourmusic.com/~siLLy_puPPy


Posted By: Progosopher
Date Posted: August 24 2020 at 22:22
But the music still survives past the time it was created. It has been recorded. None of us have heard the music as it was being created, whether now or from any time in the past unless we were in the studios when the music was recorded. If you have heard it, it is still present. This is the beauty of recordings. Written music is like that as well. Beethoven is long gone, but his music yet remains.

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The world of sound is certainly capable of infinite variety and, were our sense developed, of infinite extensions. -- George Santayana, "The Sense of Beauty"


Posted By: richardh
Date Posted: August 25 2020 at 00:09
The drum sound on Nursery Cryme may be the worse I've ever heard but its largely irrelevant as we are talking about 'playing' not 'sound'Smile

Fact is no one can now play like Carl Palmer , Phil Collins and Jon Hiseman. That level of drumming is a lost art in my opinion. Keyboards is a different matter. Listen to the latest Deep Purple album for a masterclass from Don Airey. Yes he is from that era but even Carl Palmer can no longer play like he did. Once he dropped the single bass drum set up for Asia that was it and he could never get it back. Check out ELP playing at Rich Colosseum (Buffalo) 1974 .Pictures At An Exhibition. There is nothing , literally nothing that is in the same universe anywhere anymore. Just the fact of it. Bands were testing themselves to the absolute limit until it came to an end about 1975. At least we have these recordings to remind us though.


Posted By: cstack3
Date Posted: August 25 2020 at 00:26
I'm 65.....when I was a lad, I grew up knowing folks who had seen The Beatles, Jimi Hendrix and others live, and heard great stories about the venues back in that era.  

Do I hate that music?  Not at all, reading the interviews of those days makes me curious and gives me appreciation for how creative those musicians were! 

Beatles had those huge Vox amps because the PA systems we are used to hadn't been developed yet.  Hendrix had to re-invent the guitar to get the sounds he had in his head.  

it's all good.  I've seen some amazing post 1970s bands, and they do not diminish the shows I saw....LTIA, CTTE, TAAB and other major tours.  I was there, it was good, and it is still good.  Clap

Check these guys out, I saw them open for Dream Theater once!  Scary technical skills! 




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I am not a Robot, I'm a FREE MAN!!


Posted By: Blacksword
Date Posted: August 25 2020 at 01:24
No I don't feel the same as you.

I grew up in the 70's but was a child, and paid little attention to rock music until the early 80s. I now regard the 70's as the golden era of rock music generally, and I love listening to the music. I feel no anger or bitterness at its being from a bygone age. Why would I? Why would anyone. It's just music, and is immortalised on numerous formats for your pleasure.

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Ultimately bored by endless ecstasy!


Posted By: Man With Hat
Date Posted: August 25 2020 at 01:49
Nope here as well. 

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Dig me...But don't...Bury me
I'm running still, I shall until, one day, I hope that I'll arrive
Warning: Listening to jazz excessively can cause a laxative effect.


Posted By: SixString
Date Posted: August 25 2020 at 02:23
You can get the 70's drum sound with hard disk recording but people choose not to. Techniques that are used in studios now mean that you are rarely hearing a full live performance of anything.


Posted By: rdtprog
Date Posted: August 25 2020 at 02:32
Maybe the sound was mediocre in some cases, but the songwriting was unmatched as today there's not many band in prog that could say that the songs are good from start to finish.


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Music is the refuge of souls ulcerated by happiness.

Emile M. Cioran









Posted By: wiz_d_kidd
Date Posted: August 25 2020 at 08:47
I grew up listening to music of the 70's, so I definitely don't hate it. There's much of it I still love. But sometimes I really feel like I need something new, something different, something more modern sounding. So I can be put off by listening too much to the same old thing, but I don't hate it.


Posted By: miamiscot
Date Posted: August 28 2020 at 09:51
Nostalgia can be fine.

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The Prog Corner


Posted By: AFlowerKingCrimson
Date Posted: August 28 2020 at 12:22
Originally posted by SixString SixString wrote:

You can get the 70's drum sound with hard disk recording but people choose not to. Techniques that are used in studios now mean that you are rarely hearing a full live performance of anything.

Drums are probably the most difficult instrument to record in a studio to sound good. But I don't see why it's not possible to do it the same way they did it in the 70's. Also, I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "hard disk." However, if a band were to record something live in the studio wouldn't they get pretty much the same sound as in the old days?


Posted By: Hrychu
Date Posted: August 28 2020 at 12:46
The 80s was like a transitional period. In first class studios the 70s sound was passe by 1981 but in smaller studios in like Bulgaria or Estonian CCP or even Poland they would still record the drums the late 70s way up until I think 1986.

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“On the day of my creation, I fell in love with education. And overcoming all frustration, a teacher I became.”
— Ernest Vong


Posted By: moshkito
Date Posted: August 29 2020 at 07:13
Originally posted by miamiscot miamiscot wrote:

Nostalgia can be fine.

Hi,

I'm wondering if we have to be careful with this ... for example ... I don't listen to Tchaikovsky or Stravinsky because of nostalgia ... so why would I do the same with Amon Duul 2?

Yes, many bands that are listed as "progressive" happen to be during my time, when their work came about, and yes there are many things that I appreciate from that time, but not "nostalgia" ... I liked the vibe at the Fillmore in its heyday ... and there is nothing nostalgic about it, because in the past 20 years, in any club I have seen, there has not been a single concert that was as far out and cool as many of those were ... we didn't stand there and say that the long cut suckks! Or the something or other was boring because the "song" did not follow a favored format by many fans that have had their heads so commercialized that they can not tell the difference in the music!

As for the drumming sound, or this and that ... the day someone takes that dang'd snare drum and splash it over a drummer's head, is the day I might like to appreciate a drummer again ... I'm tired of the overly loud, and un-necessary emphasis on the beat with it ... it's annoying and has a tendency to take away from the music itself ... so the music changes to something else ... and the drumming is the same! That's not a good drummer ... that's a person that does not understand the music, or can hear it at all! He/she is too busy counting the numbers to stay in touch! That's not a musician ... that's a hack!



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Music is not just for listening ... it is for LIVING ... you got to feel it to know what's it about! Not being told!
www.pedrosena.com



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