Not sure actually. I know Trent Reznor is a fan of Adrian Belew. Also, when I spoke to Steven Wilson I remember him telling me that Trent was an influence of his (along with Radiohead). 

 what subgenre would you have him in?

progtime1234567 wrote: I love Nine inch Nails but I was just wondering why they are considered Crossover Prog.

They are pretty much an industrial rock band, I never got what they do on the website.

But as the descriptions of progressive rock vary from person to person, the boundaries are quite blurred, so probably some people here decided that NIN are indeed prog... Which is perfectly fine, I guess

the OP does not question why NIN are on the site, or if they are progressive, but why are they under crossover prog. 

Industrial rock/pop is not an alternative on PA, where I would probably lump them. Here's the definition on PA:

Crossover Prog definitionCrossover Prog contains progressive rock music that, though 100% progressive, may have a musical connection to popular music-- whether it be the lack of emphasis on extended compositions, or an influence from mainstream music in addition to classical, jazz and folk. Compositions, however, still exhibit a high degree of sophistication, sometimes outright complexity, and the musicianship and virtuosity is often on a par with established Prog acts. Much like their kin in the established prog sub-genres, these groups will incorporate many major parts of what defines prog rock: the fusing of rock with the structures and discipline of more traditional musics, the use of syntheisizers and new technologies, intelligent thematics, and the expansion of the form. The defining characteristics of Crossover Prog are a pop music influence that is largely vacant in typical prog rock. Songs tend toward shorter, more concise presentations though still reach beyond the typical verse, bridge, chorus pattern. The harmonic, melodic, and rhythmic structures may be more easily digested in Crossover while not losing the musical integrity that a prog listener expects. Whereas Prog Related bands are generally commercial groups with certain prog elements or players that were involved in prog acts, Crossover Prog artists are predominantly progressive with elements of popular music. The most representative examples for this genre include The MOODY BLUES, SUPERTRAMP, DREDG, CINEMA SHOW, RADIOHEAD.

Crossover prog is a good fit for NIN for the website's sake. But if it was up to me, I would not have them on here.

That is of course one option and the discussions about which artists should be included and not will never end.

The music which can be put into "prog rock" and possibly verging close enough to be included is so diverse that it's a nightmare trying to make any kind of rules that works. PA seems to be including rather than excluding for bands on the verge, and I'm not completely against that. The biggest issue with it is which genre to use.

Another issue is that once an artist has produced an album that is deemed prog, the entire catalogue is put in, and everything in the same genre. I'm more opposed to that system than too many bands being entered.

No to what? 

Since I don't want to bother with starting another thread, I've wondered about Oingo Boingo's inclusion as crossover prog as well.

SteveG wrote: Yeah, I always throw on some NIN after listening to Relayer. Not.

They are not prog in any way and should not be in crossover or any other genre. They should not be on here. If Toto aren't here, hundreds of bands that are here should not be.

...word....

They're probably more "prog-related" than "Crossover prog", but I'm not sure about the difference really. Why is Iron Maiden or Queen considered prog-related and Radiohead crossover prog and not vice-versa. Or why is Mike Oldfield crossover when he was basically 100% as prog as you can get. 

Anyway, tags are pretty irrelevant but they're really good at their best. Johhny Cash's version of Hurt is fantastic but the bleakness and darkness of the original are unmatched. 

PD: Toto are AOR, like Foreigner, Boston, Journey, etc. If that's prog then everything is prog.

I think that Nine Inch Nails are in database due to the fact that here the Progressive rock is a "spirit", not a genre. Thus, in "Crossover prog" section one can find almost everything, from the 70's Art Rock bands like Supertramp and Electric Light Orchestra to contemporary Alt.Rock bands that are "proggy".

Toto are more than AOR than those bands you mentioned. What I like about them is how effortlessly they blend genres. I don't want to start any trouble, but if they were on PA under prog-related, I would not be upset at all. 

Journey is here on PA because of their early work, pre-Perry. 

It's funny how we discuss Toto and Journey on a NIN thread. 

Just listened to Simon Dupree and then looked them up in Youtube to show here as an example:

I am sure as Gentle Giant you know them well :)

Perfect for Proto-Prog in my collection, instead of Pop, where I was never really exactly happy with them.

Or more recent band Kula Shaker as an example Prog Related/Crossover for me.

Well I could list dozens upon dozens... 

Thanks for broadening the scope!

Nail on head - hit.

So agree. I have some of their CDs and have seen NIN  live . But personally  never ever found a Prog element to their work. 

But then again, I was listening to Planet Rock radio recently and the DJ announced that he was going to play some Prog. Immediately thought, great - will it be Soft Machine, Gentle Giant, Yes ? Then this chap put on a Supertramp track which he said was from an album belonging to his Dad, which amused me somewhat. Later found out that apparently Supertramp are Prog after all. 

So seems individual listeners can find Prog in a whole range of music. 

Like Logan I know Ghosts I-IV, very good album. I have heard bits and pieces from other albums and was less impressed. Is it prog? I tend to have no opinion on these discussions because labelling isn't really my cup of tea. By and large, the more difficult it is to find a category for a band, the more unique and progressive it is.

"If NIN is here then so should Rammstein" - nah... Rammstein don't have anything that comes remotely close to the progressive qualities of Ghosts. (Neither has Toto, as far as I know, but then of course I've never seen them live.) 

Not true. If it were like this, Irmin Schmidt would be here. But he isn't, probably because he has done so many different things (including some non-prog) that apparently every team thinks he belongs somewhere else. Tough luck. It's quite frankly ridiculous that he isn't listed.

NIN is industrial rock/metal, they are not prog. Rammstein is industrial metal, they are not prog either. These labels are given to them by the music industry, why do people love to re-classify music just to get them in here??  That was kinda my point....

So I am with you....If 5 people think NIN is prog Ok, so what, does not mean they are or should be included here.

I have ZERO issue talking about a bands music if it is progressive or not, but then wanting them here in PA listings takes a different turn.

I'll still play. 

Well, as I said, I'm fine with the opinion that they shouldn't be here and I'm neutral myself... however we certainly shouldn't take "labels given by the music industry" as sacred. Why should these guys always be right? They basically do things in order to sell stuff, not based on strictly musical criteria. NIN have undoubtedly done more progressive stuff than Rammstein, so whether they are here or not, it was right to consider them before and over Rammstein.

I realise I’m in danger of walking into that old chestnut of prog vs progressive, but it’s hard not to describe NIN in any other way. NIN are prog to me, and I completely see why they have been added to the site. But, equally, I can see why many might disagree. I do wonder how much NIN some of those dissenting have actually listened to, though....

Here is a good example: