Tool ... are they really all that good ?
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Topic: Tool ... are they really all that good ?
Posted By: Masque
Subject: Tool ... are they really all that good ?
Date Posted: January 16 2007 at 23:36
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Lets face it some bands like shall I say for example Fates Warning or Shadow Gallery and several others have produced some great work ! but you wont likely walk past the guy in your local shopping mall and see him wearing a fates warning T shirt nor will they sell them in K mart Neil Peart From Rush said in the lyrics of the song Roll The Bones (remember it ? it had that rap bit in the middle) " Good Work is the Key to good fortune" He also said "sometimes the winner takes nothing" I find so often in prog the later to be the most likely, lets face reality progressive rock/metal must be a real turkey to try and market remember most mainstream music consumers don`t care about terms like counterpoint or rhythmic syncopation, whats a Moog solo ? who needs a bell tree anyway .. all they want is what their "friends" think is "cool" or something they can 4/4 dance to. In History The artist has always been made suffer even Van Gogh once said when he was alive " if I could only get back the cost of the canvas" So my question is do you feel the band Tool has had an easy go when we consider the output of their work and the quality overall ? are Tool really all that good ? ------------- |
Replies:
Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: January 16 2007 at 23:46
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To answer your poll question; I have to say that Tool did some pretty amazing job on their albums ( Lateralus, Aenima, 10,000 Days). The creativity, great musicality and the appeal is there. I also don't think that they had an easy go with their albums. Though the ealier realeases did not do much for me. -------------  |
Posted By: The Miracle
Date Posted: January 16 2007 at 23:53
Lateralus and Aenima are simply perfect masterpieces, worth every bit of praise they get and much more 10,000 Says is a bit weaker but it's still great. So yea, they're that good, at least I think so. A matter of personal taste really.
------------- http://www.last.fm/user/ocellatedgod" rel="nofollow - last.fm |
Posted By: Harry Hood
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 00:05
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Aenima is their only great album. All of the songs are concise and powerful, and it flows really well. Lateralus is good, but the songs seem to drag on for too long. They're basically a King Crimson tribute band, they've even admitted it themselves. Practically all of their songs sound like some varation of "Easy Money", "Discipline", or a combination of the two. ------------- 
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Posted By: smithers
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 02:30
| Can't stand them |
Posted By: N Ellingworth
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 02:35
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I've only started listening to Tool recently but Aenima, Lateralus and 10,000 Days are all great albums, I've not heard Opiate or Undertow yet, but I intend to as soon as I can find them for a decent price. So yes in my opinion there are very good  |
Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 02:35
they can't even pull off the crimsonic chord changes... all of their work seems to be rooted in one minor key with obvious transitions. Tool are very good at the rhythmic side of composition but for all that they'll never write anything a quarter as good as Fracture. I like to listen to Tool from time to time. poetic sentence, no? ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Harry Hood wrote:Posted By: archivep
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 02:44
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I´m not a big fan of Tool, but I think they are pretty good... Personally prefer different kind of prog metal, more in traditional vein of DT, Fates Warning... Think Tool are quite original, but definitely not my cup of coffee.. |
Posted By: theBox
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 03:15
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No, they are not that good....THEY ARE EVEN BETTER!!! And that comes from a guy who listens mainly to sympho and rio...
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Posted By: dedokras
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 04:25
| I think they are pretty good at what they are doing. Perhaps Aenima is the best of their albums, followed closely by Lateralus. Also, I think their debut ep Opiate is absolutely amazing , it is so energetic and aggressive (despite not so prog), much better than Undertow IMHO. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 05:15
| I should probably listen to them more carefully. So far, I've only heard "Lateralus" and "10,000 Days". The former is rather good, though a bit samey; while I found the latter positively dull. However, as I said above, I can't say I have listened to either of them very often - which is in itself a rather bad sign as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't in any case go so far as to say they're worthless. |
Posted By: Jared
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 05:32
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yes, I think so... ------------- Music has always been a matter of energy to me. On some nights I believe that a car with the needle on empty can run 50 more miles if you have the right music very loud on the radio. Hunter S Thompson |
Posted By: enteredwinter
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 05:33
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For several reasons, Tool gets a huge spotlight thrown on it. I guess some reasons might be that a) they're hugely popular, b) they take so long to put out a new album and c) many people (including myself and other posters in this thread) think that they peaked at Aenima. I know, some people just don't like them much. That's fine. It's frustrating to see all the hate they get, though, considering that they're one of the few truly unique and innovative bands in prog-metal. The majority of bands in prog-metal sound like Dream Theater rip-offs, to me anyway. Do they deserve all the hype and attention they get? Maybe not, but at least a talented prog band IS getting a lot of attention these days. The more people that listen to this stuff as opposed to, you know, Britney Spears or something, the better. |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 05:42
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 06:04
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At their best (Aenima, Lateralus) yes, they are that good. On the other releases they're quite good, but not groundbreaking. What is definitely not that good about them is the lyrics (with a few exceptions). Do they sound samey? No. |
Posted By: Lex C
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 06:48
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What you think of tool depends on what you think about Rhythm Bands.
------------- You think we've developed fast that we're civilized and intelligent I'll let you in on a secret...We've developed things the rest is just knowledge passed on. |
Posted By: Cristi
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 07:05
| Tool... are they really that good? YES, they are. Listen to their music with an open mind. And you'll see. |
Posted By: Sean Trane
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 07:05
------------- let's just stay above the moral melee prefer the sink to the gutter keep our sand-castle virtues content to be a doer as well as a thinker, prefer lifting our pen rather than un-sheath our sword |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 08:23
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Yes. I ain't Metal fan(neither Prog nor Alternative where TOOL seemed to belong) mostly ,but they're my favourite Metal band."10 000 Days" is The album of the year for me (glad to see it takes #5 in Collabs' choise). The title track is simply a masterpiece. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 08:26
the funniest thing I heard in years.You should write for TV 
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:00
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So you didn't get enough input in the other Tool threads you have made? I tried it...but I don't like Tool: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22820&KW=Tool - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=22820&KW=Tool Tool...so what's the fuss?: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23453&KW=Tool - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=23453&KW=Tool Tool and Dream Theater Burger Factory: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24290&KW=Tool - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24290&KW=Tool King Crimson vs. Tool: http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26639&KW=Tool - http://www.progarchives.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=26639&KW=Tool And that is just a few of them,the ones I felt like listing. For someone that can't stand them you sure talk about them alot.What more do you need to know??????????????? -------------  |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 09:51
I suspected sooner or later you would respond Progtologist but honestly its just a harmless poll and I havent posted anything Tool related in some time. ------------- |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:09
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I know it's harmless,but it's also pretty redundant. ------------- |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:16
------------- |
Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:21
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I won't close it,there is really no reason to,no rules are being violated.I was just wondering why you obsess about these guys so much.I obsess about music and bands that I like.Bands that I don't like I don't care about.I think that's sort of strange.Just my personal opinion,though. ------------- |
Posted By: archivep
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:37
It´s funny but in fact they are not a metal band, it´s some mix of hard rock with american alternative music... And I think they are closer to B. Sabbath than to a traditional metal bands. They were never rated as a metal band so I don´t understand why they are now... But the point is they are pretty good but not a metal. |
Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:47
In response to the thread title: No, they're better. 
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Posted By: Clark Ashton
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:48
I've noticed that 'the powers that be' lump anything Hard Core, Nu, Industrial, Alternative, etc in with metal. I'm not a Tool fan, but I read these threads to find out why people label them "Metal".
BTW http://www.metal-archives.com/ - http://www.metal-archives.com/ does not recognise Tool as metal. ------------- And he took the stars In his hands And as he scattered them he’d shout “I’m the joker of the universe I’m what it’s all about” |
Posted By: XTChuck
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:49
I think Tool are to be considered a metal band even though not EVERYTHING they've recorded was heavy sounding. Even Black Sabbath recorded songs like "Laguna Sunrise", "Fluff", "Planet Caravan" etc.
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Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 10:54
------------- |
Posted By: glass house
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 11:19
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I respect Tool for what they have achieved. It is not really 'popular'music is it?
I know about their music since they began but they made music which did not appeal to me. When they became popular some friends of me played them a lot. Still it didn't appeal to me. They sound too sterile and abstract to me. Around the third song on any album I find myself doing other thing then listening to their music.
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 11:29
...what?!?!??!?!?! To say Keenan´s lyrics are not good is like saying Russia is a little country! He is THE best ever, for me of course. His lyrics are so incredibly deep and filosofical, can´t believe there are people out there saying his lyrics are not good. One thing is that you don´t like them, but to say they are not good, that´s just absurd!...man does this piss me off  Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!and, they are as good as everybody says they are and diserve all the popularity they get. Plus, Lateralus is the best prog album of this millenium  ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?" 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 11:33
Personally I would put them in Art rock ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Erpland316
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 11:48
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A lot of this website has become nothing but senseless band bashing. All music is a matter of opinion and its stupid to just sit around at a computer and argue over nothing. I really dont get it? ------------- "Science is all metaphor"-Timothy Leary [IMG]http://freespace.virgin.net/martin.jones10/amonpic.jpg">[IMG]http://imagegen.last.fm/red/artists/Yeti316.gif"> |
Posted By: CaincelaOreinim
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 13:13
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I've been a huge Tool fan. Discovered them in their gap from Aenima to Lateralus via APC, and fell in love for the most part. I think those two albums are probably their apex...when 10K was about to break out (aside from almost literally throwing up in my mouth from the title when it was first announced), I figured based off their last album's experiments it could only make or break them. And in my opinion, break them it has. What happened to the long, trance-inducing, intricately crafted textures that were hinted at the end of Lateralus? I saw Lateralus as the closing of an era for the band...they got over the legal battles, they rediscovered communicating within themselves, and from there on in, they'd really go whacky and explore to their hearts' content - see the lyrics to the song Lateralus in general. What we saw was not an expansion, an improvement, or any sort of 'pushing the envelope' (statements which the band bark about til they're blue in the face but no longer show corroborating bite)...but a band standing still doing what worked for them. Had 10K been released 2 years after Lateralus I would've said cool, or as a companion piece, even better. The band needs to make either some dramatically big changes in their overall sound or composistional skills for the next album, or adios Tool; because seriously, these guys are writing the same D minor bound song over and over and over with reliance on Danny Carey's powerhouse drumming taking up farrrr too much precedence. Experiment I say to Tool, and don't be afraid to be weird or alienate your audience again! So back to the initial question, is Tool great...I guess I can at this moment say they WERE and they still have the latency to become even better, I simply became rather, RATHER disappointed with them last year. |
Posted By: Raff
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 13:32
Erpland316:  El Böthy: I understand your disagreeement with the opinion expressed by Visitor13, but there is really no need to react as if he had blasphemied. Unfortunately, art is in many respects a matter of personal taste. As far as moving Tool to Art Rock, seen that King Crimson are a major influence on the band, perhaps it wouldn't be such a far-fetched suggestion... I don't thing the PMT would agree, though. |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 14:32
Please quote some deep and philisophic lyrics from them. When it comes to lyrics I'm very critical, but I will admit to being mistaken, if what you quote meets my standards. |
Posted By: The T
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 16:02
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They are good but not THAT good (whatever THAT refers too).... they are quiete an interesting band, very interesting rhythm, great drummer, good if awkward singing, but some of their songs are boring, some are noisy, some are too close to nu-metal to my liking.... I would say lateralus and 10000 days are thier best... Aenima it's not my favorite. ------------- 
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Posted By: Spacemac
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 16:55
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Yes Yes Yes!
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Posted By: TheProgtologist
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 17:05
So how many times do you purposefully put yourself through "not so great experiences"? ------------- |
Posted By: stonebeard
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 17:06
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I don't know. I have Lateralus, and I don't see what the fuss is about. I do think they're prog, but as far as what I expect out of a revered metal band, they fall dramatically short of my expectations. ------------- http://soundcloud.com/drewagler" rel="nofollow - My soundcloud. Please give feedback if you want! |
Posted By: polyrythmic
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 17:31
| Tool deserve the praise for they make music most people can like while not compromising there musical ablities. The Drumming of Danny Carey is so amazing also! |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 17:46
as for Prog - Russia is even more little than Switzerland  Good point for Art-Rock.I think with improvement of Modern Prog(an idea I'm obsessed with for last 6 months)they would fit in the genre.Actually,they'd be my FAVOURITE band of the genre!!! as for lyrics - "Oh, what are they gonna do when the lights go down? Without you to guide them all to Zion? What are they gonna do when the rivers overrun? Other than tremble incessantly. High is the way, but our eyes are upon the ground. You are the light and the way. They'll only read about. I only pray heaven knows, when to lift you out. 10,000 days in the fire is long enough. You're going home..." my favourite spot musically/lyrically from the whole album
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 17:53
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^ That *is* quite good. Though I will stand by my claim that they have more than their fair share of weak lyrics, especially on 'Lateralus'. |
Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 19:20
Ah, don´t take anything I say too seriously...not even this!  hehehe, you liked the Art rock thing eh?¿ ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: Chris H
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 19:23
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Uhh Tool is bad.
Need I say more? ------------- Beauty will save the world. 
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Posted By: el böthy
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 19:23
It´s all good now. It´s just whenever someone talks about Keenan´s lyrics without the expretion "best ever in the history of mankind" I just snap!...once I hit someone to death because of it...naaa...thats a lie...or is it?...na, it is...it is...really?...really, I never did that...  and here I give you...Schism I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them fall away mildewed and smoldering, fundamental differing, pure intention juxtaposed will set two lovers souls in motion disintegrating as it goes testing our communication the light that fueled our fire then has burned a hole between us so we cannot see to reach an end crippling our communication. I know the pieces fit cuz I watched them tumble down no fault, none to blame it doesn't mean I don't desire to point the finger, blame the other, watch the temple topple over. To bring the pieces back together, rediscover communication. The poetry that comes from the squaring off between, And the circling is worth it. Finding beauty in the dissonance. There was a time that the pieces fit, but I watched them fall away. Mildewed and smoldering, strangled by our coveting I've done the the math enough to know the dangers of a second guessing Doomed to crumble unless we grow, and strengthen our communication cold silence has a tendency to atrophy any sense of compassion between supposed lovers between supposed brothers. And I know the pieces fit. ------------- "You want me to play what, Robert?"
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Posted By: JayDee
Date Posted: January 17 2007 at 20:36
Some metal heads on a certain site ( Ultimatemetal.com) does not consider Tool to be metal as well. ------------- |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 13:01
| The song 10,000 Days has my favorite lyrics. They're just so beautiful. |
Posted By: magnus
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 13:21
yes, they are 
------------- The scattered jigsaw of my redemption laid out before my eyes Each piece as amorphous as the other - Each piece in its lack of shape a lie 
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Posted By: Heff
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 20:44
| I did not understand what all the fuss over Tool was about for a long while, and then one day while I was bored at work i decided to look up some of their lyrics. I read the lyrics for Schism and they hit me like a ton of bricks. Admittedly, i'm not huge on lyrics, but there was just something about Schism's lyrics that struck me. After that they just clicked and I think they are a great band. I think Aenima is overrated and 10000 days has it's weak spots, but I still love about 75% of their material. |
Posted By: Masque
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 21:13
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Looking at the results so far Tool is going along OK, but its not a clear result so far many people seem to feel they are that good and almost as many don`t. Taking into account the fanboy hysteria that a band like Tool have I`d say this poll is even so far in real terms 50/50 result not a bad result for Tool in fact pretty good
------------- |
Posted By: srbruno
Date Posted: January 18 2007 at 22:32
| TOOL is a little too heavy for me, they have some cool ideas no doubt, I'm not a huge fan and prob dont have the most educated opinion but they are a little over the top for me. |
Posted By: Modrigue
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 06:48
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I love TooL, they rocks ! No cheesyness, all heavy and dark progressive metal ! Especially AEnima, Lateralus and 10000 days. Their first album sounds less progressive, but is nonetheless quite enjoyable. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 12:22
listened to Jambi (as well as the whole album) yesterday. If it's not metal I'm Justin Timberlake! ...rock your body...ooh... Just kidding! |
Posted By: Passionist
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 12:27
| I'll say, that if a band still gets 40% saying no, how could it be one of the best this year? Personally Tool doesn't appeal to me in any way. I have heard 3 albums from them, and in my opinion, I might as well not have heard them, I think that says I'm not a fan, whereas most of my friends are. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 12:47
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^that's all our tastes...I dislike RUSH, if you ask...
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Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 13:04
Hi El Bothy, Sorry, but I wouldn't say these are good lyrics. Or let's put it this way - the message is good (though hardly original), but the way it's put into words isn't. A more careful, aware choice of words would certainly make the message more tangible and shed more light on this ancient problem of 'rediscovering communication'. As it is, I don't really see anything here I didn't know before and wouldn't have arrived at myself. It's a bit like Neil Peart's lyrics. Wisdom yes, poetry no. And poetry isn't only form (and therefore somehow secondary to content), it allows for deeper and more precise content. And poetry lis what's lacking here, IMO. The bit Prog-Jester quoted sounded more personal, and as such probably made the choice of the right words easier. |
Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 13:24
this is my favourite bit from my favourite 2006 album . Listen to this 40-seconds moment - it worth a dozen of albums everyone of us owns
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Posted By: Philéas
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 13:42
| On the lyrics bit: It's very easy to criticise, but try doing it better yourselves. It isn't always easy I tell you. |
Posted By: Zargus
Date Posted: January 19 2007 at 18:56
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The best prog band right now. ------------- 
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Posted By: Prog-jester
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 05:50
| ^I tend to agree with you, though I'm a bit confused.The MOST POPULAR, I'd say |
Posted By: Visitor13
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 08:08
Sure, it must be very difficult. And I'm not saying I could do better. This doesn't mean I shouldn't criticise though. |
Posted By: TheLamb
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 08:14
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Well it's a matter of taste, yada yada yada. What I can say is that Tool are acquired taste for some people. I always liked Tool to some extent, But not until just recently have I started to really love what they do. Im a huge fan now, and back when I first heard them I thought they were good, but not "all that good". So don't jump to conclusions after 1 or 2 listens, because it took me like over 100 (not exaggerating) to love em. and no, its not brainwash. I can tell when it is and when it isn't ------------- 
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Posted By: laplace
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 08:24
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Tool are a hard taste to acquire? as proven by their large fan base rooted in many different age groups and musical contexts, not to mention the fact that they're successful enough to have produced memorable videos? :P :P :P they're just a little bit more clever than most bands, a little more judicious with their payoffs and choruses. They do have the image of being mystic travellers and so forth but I think it's a cynical thing to some extent. you may think it takes a genius to put down the lyrical themes of life, which every intelligent person already constantly considers, but I do not. I find Lateralus to be seventy minutes of a very good forty minute album. ------------- FREEDOM OF SPEECH GO TO HELL |
Posted By: Evans
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 08:38
-------------  'Let's give it another fifteen seconds..' |
Posted By: darkmatter
Date Posted: January 20 2007 at 12:05
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I think Tool can be an acquired taste, they were for me. My brother got Lateralus I think back in 2001 or 2002 and he listened to it very often, so I was exposed to it quite a bit. I have to say, I didn't like it at first. Then he got Aenima and Undertow, and they still didn't appeal to me all that much. But I gradually started to like them and I was able to appreciate Aenima and Undertow in particular. But I'm still trying to get into Lateralus, although I really like some parts of it. |
Posted By: Kill Fede
Date Posted: March 30 2007 at 06:14
Tool is an excellent prog metal band,with great musicianship and some very good albums in their discography(Lateralus is a prog metal key studio album )
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